Inverter

[JV II]

Just bought this 1000W Vector Marine inverter to run the wife's hair dryer for $99 shipping included. Check it out. I googled the model and found it for over $400 on other sites.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/VEC049M.htm

Any experience with this brand or model? Should do the trick.

[Sorrento 25]

Nice buy should work well. I've been happy with several Vector products. Keep the power wires short and fat. :)

[SAshton]

Where did you power it too? It's a long way from cabin to batteries. Is there a main power supply in the cabin? I would like to get one too. I have a 98 250 Sundancer

[Hampton]

How does this work for a flat screen TV? How do most guys power their TV's? I'm thinking about adding (Admiral insists, I agree) a TV/DVD combo in the cockpit. Right now, we have to have the gen or shore power on to power a TV, I think.

[JV II]

Where did you power it too? It's a long way from cabin to batteries. Is there a main power supply in the cabin? I would like to get one too. I have a 98 250 Sundancer
The batteries are in the fore port side engine compartment, close to the aft port corner of the mid berth. The wire run to the mounting position is no more than 6 feet to the bulkhead or electrical cabinet.

[JV II]

How does this work for a flat screen TV? How do most guys power their TV's? I'm thinking about adding (Admiral insists, I agree) a TV/DVD combo in the cockpit. Right now, we have to have the gen or shore power on to power a TV, I think.
No, this is a "modified sine wave" inverter. The wave is really a square wave. You need a "true sine wave" inverter for sensitive electronics. Much more money for those. I also have a Xantrex 400W true sine wave inverter on board for the 15" LCD and DVD player. They run about $400. That would not be powerful enough for anything larger than the 15" screen.

[Hampton]

Thanks Mike, I think. Is that what most guys do, or do most just use the boat's AC?

[JV II]

Thanks Mike, I think. Is that what most guys do, or do most just use the boat's AC?
Without a genset, most will get the true sine wave inverter for the sensitive electronics. It comes as a package in the new boats with the TV/DVD. I think even a boat with a genset would have to have the true sine wave inverter to run the TV/DVD when the genset is off. I think I recall seeing in the Sea Ray catalog, the inverter is required with the TV/DVD option on the boat regardless of whether the genset box was checked. Of course, you could run the TV/DVD just fine from shore power or genset AC. The cheap 1000W inverter I got was added only to run the occasional hair dryer or kitchen appliance.

[Hampton]

Thanks again, Mike. That makes sense. I didn't know the inverter was kind of automatic with the TV/DVD.

Has anyone added an inverter to power a flat-screen TV/DVD?

[Hampton]

It's an option on the 280, 290, 310 for 2007 and 330 (2008), but not the 240, 260, 300, 320 or 340 for 2007.

It's listed on the web site, Sport Cruisers, bottom left "Download Spec Sheet," then "Individual Options."

[Warren]

I would agree that a true sine wave inverter is desirable for the TV application - but it's probably not necessary. We have had Freedom 20 (2 kw) inverters on our last 2 boats which is a modified sine wave design and that unit runs TV without a hitch. In fact, I have never found an appliance that was problematic including hair dryers, stereo, microwave, TV, computer, etc. So do check out the manufacturer's recommendations before you buy!
Warren

[JV II]

I would agree that a true sine wave inverter is desirable for the TV application - but it's probably not necessary. We have had Freedom 20 (2 kw) inverters on our last 2 boats which is a modified sine wave design and that unit runs TV without a hitch.

With inverters, like most electronics, you get what you pay for. The Freedom 20 is top of the line for a modified sine wave and runs about $1,000. The term "modified sine wave" is used very loosely. You can modify a square wave and have it still look like a square wave or you can use a more expensive approach and approximate a smooth sign wave. The closer to a sine wave, the better. The Vector 1000W inverter I referenced is a rough beast at under $100. I don't predict it will make my flat panel and DVD very happy. It should run the hair dryer and kitchen appliances very well. It is marine grade, so it should last. Worth a try for $100. We'll see how it performs. Hard to get the real-word results from the manufacturer literature.

[PMvdb395DA]

Thanks again, Mike. That makes sense. I didn't know the inverter was kind of automatic with the TV/DVD.

Has anyone added an inverter to power a flat-screen TV/DVD?

Hello John,

For a flat screen or dvd you don't need a inverter.

You just buy a 12v LCD or DVD.

Look at my project: http://www.clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2191

Peter

[Hampton]

Good idea. This opens up a whole new can of worms. Anyone know of a good 12 V flat screen TV with high resolution, digital/analog tuner, and audio out - 19" or 20"? Is it easier to get an AC TV and hook up an inverter to all 3 TV's?

[JV II]

Good idea. This opens up a whole new can of worms. Anyone know of a good 12 V flat screen TV with high resolution, digital/analog tuner, and audio out - 19" or 20"? Is it easier to get an AC TV and hook up an inverter to all 3 TV's?
I think you answered your own question. You can get an AC TV in any store nearby. Try finding a 12V TV in a 5 min drive.

[Sorrento 25]

Most LCDs are 12V even though they claim to be A/C. Check out the demos where you shop. What you'll typically find is a transformer etc. in the cord ala printer and a small plug at the TV. Cut that plug off (Or Radio Shack one to match) and wire it to 12V. I believe my transformer claimed an output of 16V but it works fine on 12.5V.

I have a true sine inverter but I don't use it for the TV.

Use a car audio DVD player with video out too. Much smaller and more convenient to use and install.

[JV II]

I wonder why the manufacturers don't just wire the AV directly to DC. Why add the expense of a 400W inverter?

[PMvdb395DA]

I think you answered your own question. You can get an AC TV in any store nearby. Try finding a 12V TV in a 5 min drive.

It's not as easy as a 110v LCD but they are available.

http://www.asaelectronics.com/products.html?m=mrk&catid=marine&page=marine

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=lcd&Ntt=lcd&N=377+710&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch


Use 12 volts if you can, inverters waste a lot of power in the conversion to DC - as much as 60%, in the form of heat.
Sometimes they also make noise because of the cooling fan etc.
I would recommend having a 12V DVD player with a separate 12V LCD display and a separate 12V audio system.
No problems with building a inverter in your boat with long heavy power cables.
Also if you want to go with a inverter, I would also recommend a true sine wave inverter...

Success Peter

[Hampton]

I have been looking at this one:

http://www.asaelectronics.com/detail.html?catid=&pid=220&PHPSESSID=b8c1f1a9d5414bec244a76b2af9356e8

[fc3]

You guys are missing the point of sine wave vs. modified sine wave. First off. modified sine wave isn't a square wave. Square wave are square. They go from positive peak directly to negative peak and then rapidly back to the positive peak. That's not modified sine wave. The problem with square wave is that the duty cycle is 100%. It's fully on positive or fully on negative. That is lots of stress for whatever device you are operating. Plus it's hard for inductive loads because current lags voltage, which can make voltage regulation difficult since, for example, a triac won't turn off an inductive load exactly at the voltages zero crossing point since there still is current flow. You can design around it, but basically square wave = bad power.

Back onto topic. So what's modified sine wave? This is. (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fc3subscribe/ModifiedSineWave/ModifiedSineWave.html) (Click the photos for a larger view)

Note the legend at the bottom of the photos. Here's the thing to remember about msw. While the frequency shown in the upper photo is nearly 60Hz, the duty cycle is 49%. So for half the time, the device is getting power. This is sine wave-ish.

Now look at the lower photo. While the RMS voltage is an entirely nominal 115 volts AC, the peak to peak value is 340.

Finally, the third photo is normal utility grade power. Note the 50% duty cycle, the same as msw. Note the RMS voltage is just a bit higher at 125 and the peak to peak value is a bit lower at 328. Thus the main problem with modified sine wave is that the peak voltages are a higher than the peak voltages of a sine wave. A switching power supply only sees fractions of the full wave. So on AC the fraction is going to be a lower peak. On MSW, the fraction is going to be the full peak value. This shouldn't be an issue if the power supply is properly filtered.

Overall, pretty much anything can run on msw unless the power supply is very sensitive. Modified sine wave isn't pretty, but it works like a sine wave.

Best regards
Frank

PS
I know the scope is a dinosaur.

[jrcinnh]

Mike,
Can you run a hair dryer off 1000 Watts? Aren't most of them more like 1500-1800 Watts?

Frank, nice scope, I have a Tek that's even older. I'd love to have 100 Mhz.

Nowadays a lot of electronic manufacturers use an external power supply to convert line voltages to a DC voltage. Power bricks or wall warts are usually used because it's cheaper plus it keeps the dangerous voltages out of the device. This makes safety certification easier and cheaper. If you can find a device with a DC input near 12 volts then you are all set. Just make sure it takes DC and you get the polarity right. Once in a while you get a DC plug with ground in the center and +12 on the shell.

[JV II]

Mike,
Can you run a hair dryer off 1000 Watts? Aren't most of them more like 1500-1800 Watts?

Got that one covered bro. The admiral got a Brookstone 1000W travel hair dryer for Christmas.

[fc3]

Frank, nice scope, I have a Tek that's even older.

Thanks!

My Tek is older than your Tek.
Photo 1 (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fc3other/ScopeOnCart.JPG)
Photo 2 (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fc3other/ScopeCloseup.JPG)

Best regards,
Frank

[charlg]

Just bought this 1000W Vector Marine inverter to run the wife's hair dryer for $99 shipping included. Check it out. I googled the model and found it for over $400 on other sites.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/VEC049M.htm

Any experience with this brand or model? Should do the trick.

Mike,

Sorry to bring up such an old post, but I just ordered the Vector 1000W inverter (BTW, it's only $69 now) to run the occasional video game, laptop, etc. I wanted to see how it worked for you last summer. Were you satisfied with it running small aplliances?

[JV II]

Mike,

Sorry to bring up such an old post, but I just ordered the Vector 1000W inverter (BTW, it's only $69 now) to run the occasional video game, laptop, etc. I wanted to see how it worked for you last summer. Were you satisfied with it running small aplliances?

It definitely did the trick. We did not use it much since getting transient slips with shore power was easy due to fewer boaters out and about. We were on a mooring only once overnight. I had the dealer install it adjacent to my battery bank in the bilge with short thick power cords. The unit received power when the TV inverter breaker was on. He was able to power one outlet for me in the head. The hair dryer worked fine. Good luck.

[charlg]

Thanks Mike. Sounds perfect to run some small items during a day cruise.