Advice pls

Hi all and thanks in advance for any help.

Very new to boats etc but.....

What would the smallest boat to live on in the DA range be recommended to live aboard in the FL area.

Also what “expenses” yearly cost be for such a boat.

Again this is vague but it’s a starting place. No good looking at a 320 if it’s too small or a 540 if it’s too expensive.

Neil,
Ok, wow! Definitely more info needed here. Start with family size. Year round living or seasonal? Budget? The bigger you go, the more it will cost.

Todd

Welcome! This thread has substantial potential!

Most folks would tell you that a DA is not the most ideal liveaboard model. It's a whole lotta up/down/up/down the stairs.

The slip will be one of the most costly parts of owning a boat for a lot of us. Start by shopping for the slip if you want to get an idea for annual cost.

Just for kicks I found "Marina Bay" linked below. Annual slippage there for a 40' boat would be $12,500. And that doesn't include electric.

http://www.marinabay-fl.com/rates.html

Hi again,
So it would be for 2 (wife and myself) in Retirement. Year round living. She prefers a DA style.
We like Chicago our home so would be in FL in winter and summer via Loop in Chicago.

So it seems both In FL and Chicago we would be looking at $1000/ month slip.

What about Insurance? Ball park.
What costs to run the loop?
What sort of annual maintenance costs on the boat you feel would be suitable.
Would this boat get me to Bahamas?

Thanks in advance

We have a 380 aft cabin we spend 3 months on it a year. The upper helm and aft deck is fully enclosed. There is enough room for the two of us. At a slip all the time it probably would be OK for 2 full time. If you plan on having visitors two full state rooms with two full heads would be a very good idea. Last summer 2 month 100 hour run cost us 7,500US for food, fuel, moorage and fixing things.

For what you're thinking I would look st a trawler style or sedan style. Express cruiser / sundancer will get small really quick. If you're set on the sundancer I would get two and leave one in fla and one in Chicago. It's got to be cheaper to store than to move every year.

Sounds like a fantastic retirement but I'd agree with the above - you may want to expand your search to include trawlers.

I'm not sure it's even possible to loop in a small-ish DA? I don't believe we have the range unless you're making arrangements for fuel delivery?

There are some really cool looper forums out there. You may want to find one and read all you can.

I agree. Sounds like you want the visual of a DA but really dont have the need for speed. Im in the “same boat” when considering spending a year of retirement like you.

Id definitely reconsider a trawler style. There are some nice looking ships with much more room. Washer/Dryer, deisel engines/generator, enclosed helm, various seating arrangements.

Anything can get you to the Bahamas on a good weather day. Youll be fine.

Crazy question - what's your annual budget for operating and what's your boat purchase budget?

We own a 32 Open which is similar to the 350 SR Express and 370 wide body SRs. We live on it for 4 plus weeks at a time so space wise it is comfortable. Having said that, after 4 weeks, we find that it is boring to spend more than that amount of time on it if you are moored. Boats this size also have limitations in the galley that are tough to overcome and do not make good permanent homes. With the change of scenery that comes with cruising the Great Loop, they are wonderful places to live for as long as you are moving. Once you are settled in, not so much. As far as budget, that is really up to you and your personal requirement. We spend about 20K plus using our boat.

For the loop, or any long-range cruising, diesels are pretty much mandatory, IMO. Twin engine trawler of 36 to 42 feet with two cabins and two heads is my recommendation. Also, consider a "fast trawler". Those are speedier. Most trawlers cruise at 6-8 knots, whereas a fast trawler can go that slow for great fuel economy, but can also cruise at 10 to 20 knots (based on the model) when you need the speed.

The 5.5 hour trip we made in our Sundancer on Sunday took a friend of ours 3 days in his 7 knot trawler. He took more time, we used more fuel.

My wife and I are at the beginning of this path as well. We bought a 400 Sundancer to start weekending on the boat, with plans to expand our stay time from there. Ultimately our plan is like yours - Chicago in the summer, Florida in the winter. We are learning that it is pretty expensive.

You asked about costs:
For our boat, transport from Florida to Chicago was $8500, plus about another $400 for haul out, and the same to launch on the other end. We prepped the boat ourselves, but let's call it $10k each way if you were to transport on a truck.

Should you want to move your boat via water, there is plenty of information about great loop paths and costs depending on how you do it. Let's say it is 5500 miles round trip. With a diesel getting ~1 mpg, fuel at $3.50 a gallon, that is about $19k just in fuel, and fuel is relatively inexpensive right now. A gas boat, depending on size, would run you more. We ran into a guy in Key West last week who had just brought a gas 350 Sundancer down from Pittsburgh - $14k in gas one way. Not sure about the route. You obviously would have maintenance and other costs if you move the boat yourself, but you do have the experience of the trip. More expensive if you hire a captain to move it.

Marina costs vary significantly in Florida depending on where you stay. Winter is more expensive than summer, but the ranges we found in south Florida (Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Keys) were $1000 a month on the low end for a slip (not a ball) up to $2500 or $3000 on the high end. Electric and sometimes water on top of that, maybe another $250 a month. We visited several of these marinas a few weeks ago to get a feel and talk with tenants and the harbormaster. PM me if you want links and specifics on various marinas.

Slips in the Chicago harbors for a non-resident can run $5k - $7k for the summer for this size boat, less for residents. Up in Winthrop Harbor where I am a 45 foot slip is $3700 for the summer, and discounts are available so it would be more like $3200.

Insurance - $1000 annually in the great lakes, 3x that year round in florida. You might be able to find blended coverage.

Then you have all of the costs of maintaining the boat. This will vary significantly based on the boat you buy and how much you do yourself, but as I mentioned in another post, when you buy a boat to live on, you have all of the systems of a house (plumbing, electrical, refrigerator, stove, microwave, HVAC, TV, Internet, audio) plus all of the systems of a boat. For some system you have two of everything, and including the generator you have three engines, three sets of filters, three sets of batteries, etc.

I have started to run the math and under some scenarios it looks less expensive to buy a 2 br condo with a slip in Florida and have a center console down there than it is to bring the boat back an forth.

A condo, however, is not the dream....

Third Edition said:

For the loop, or any long-range cruising, diesels are pretty much mandatory, IMO. Twin engine trawler of 36 to 42 feet with two cabins and two heads is my recommendation. Also, consider a "fast trawler". Those are speedier. Most trawlers cruise at 6-8 knots, whereas a fast trawler can go that slow for great fuel economy, but can also cruise at 10 to 20 knots (based on the model) when you need the speed.

The 5.5 hour trip we made in our Sundancer on Sunday took a friend of ours 3 days in his 7 knot trawler. He took more time, we used more fuel.

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I could not agree more. A friend of ours has a Beneteau Swift Trawler 44. It’s a fantastic boat with all the positives Third Edition lists here. It’s very high on our list for a next boat. Best of both worlds really. There are good deals to be had on them as well.

For the back and forth you're looking to do - you're screaming trawler…..and there's a huge range of cool trawlers.

Calling around slips right now for a 40'. Ranges from $1300/month (annual commit) down to $650/month (annual commit) depending on where it is in the Palm Beach Area. The average slip wants $900. Availability may be an issue around also, it seems like there's a wait to get a permanent slip.

tdschafer said:

Neil,
Ok, wow! Definitely more info needed here. Start with family size. Year round living or seasonal? Budget? The bigger you go, the more it will cost.

Todd

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i was reading your reply and saw that you have a 1997 sundancer with 454's. I am considering that boat and a 1998 with twin 5.7 L. I am a newbie and will be using the boat initially to cruise the Chesapeake Bay, but in 2021 U plan to go down the ICE to Florida and possibly over to the Bahamas.
i would greatly appreciate your input,as an owner of a boat that I am considering, as to which size engine is ,in your opinion, the better choice. I'm not interested in getting to my destination fast. Fuel efficiency is a consideration and I am trying to determine if the smaller engines pushing the same weight boat will end up burning more GPH .

Joseph Parker said:

i was reading your reply and saw that you have a 1997 sundancer with 454's. I am considering that boat and a 1998 with twin 5.7 L. I am a newbie and will be using the boat initially to cruise the Chesapeake Bay, but in 2021 U plan to go down the ICE to Florida and possibly over to the Bahamas.
i would greatly appreciate your input,as an owner of a boat that I am considering, as to which size engine is ,in your opinion, the better choice. I'm not interested in getting to my destination fast. Fuel efficiency is a consideration and I am trying to determine if the smaller engines pushing the same weight boat will end up burning more GPH .

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Hi,
I can only speak to the 454 set-up with V-Drives which is my configuration. I have used this boat in the Great South bay & in the Atlantic ocean. I have traveled from mid Long Island to as far away as Block Island & Newport RI. I did have a 260 merc with an Alpha outdrive on my 26 Sundancer so I am familiar with them as well. The 330 handles great with the V drives, especially when docking. These boats are a little ass heavy so I would be a little concerned shifting more weight to the rear with out drives, although they are supposed to be a little more fuel efficient compared to the V drives, which lose some power due to the gear configuration from what I've read. There is a greater maintenance component to out drives as well which will add to the yearly costs. People say they are no good in salt water but, I had mine for 20 years in salt without an issue. Just make sure you have fresh zincs every year. I burn about 30 gph at cruise, which is around 3300 rpms & 25-26 knots. I never tinkered with it to squeeze out top fuel efficiency as I'm ok with burning fuel to enjoy the ride. Our boat has accommodated my family of 5 comfortably thus far, although I could use more space as my kids are growing. A second head would be nice too. As I stated earlier, these boats are ass heavy & if fully loaded need power to get on plane. That's where the 454's come into play vs the 5.7's. You will find getting on plane will need the trim tabs fully down & then trimmed up as you plane off. I don't know how the 5.7's will be in this situation but, you can always make the trim tabs bigger if needed. If you have any more specific questions you can shoot me a message. Good luck on your hunt.

Neil hasn't been back to this site since April 3rd his last comment.

Blueone said:

Neil hasn't been back to this site since April 3rd his last comment.

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I think Neil saw the writing on the wall and reconsidered his plan!

Blueone said:

Neil hasn't been back to this site since April 3rd his last comment.

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I was replying to Joseph Parker's post directed at me from Sunday night. He's new around here & I guess hasn't figured out the DM option. I wonder what Neil ended up doing though.......