Removing air conditioning in my 260 Sundancer

Roland Illvesand · Jan 7, 2020

Here in Sweden you do not need air conditioning so I will remove it and replace it with an 8kw air diesel heater. ;-)

KevinC · Jan 7, 2020

Question: Is that even safe for installing inside the cabin? Why not just use the heating mode of the AC unit for heat?

-Kevin

ggrimes · Jan 7, 2020

Thanks for posting that pic with the panel removed. I was planning to access my a/c in the spring to check the drain pan and wondered how it would go. Seeing the panel removed and the mounting brackets give me peace of mind when I tackle the removal. Thanks!

Ididntdoit · Jan 8, 2020

KevinC said:
Question: Is that even safe for installing inside the cabin? Why not just use the heating mode of the AC unit for heat?

-Kevin

ive been on several boats that have them - same principal as an oil fired home furnace - instant warm heat - the reverse cycle heat really doesnt work as well at water temps below 40 degrees and is hard on the compressor too

Creekwood · Jan 8, 2020

Ididntdoit said:
ive been on several boats that have them - same principal as an oil fired home furnace - instant warm heat - the reverse cycle heat really doesnt work as well at water temps below 40 degrees and is hard on the compressor too

Plus the diesel heater can be run without a generator running. I like the idea for that climate, but I would not be installing the heater in the cabin or the bilge. It could go in the cockpit, vented outside, running ducting into the cabin in some way.

Too bad they don't make a compact diesel powered air conditioner for warmer climates.

KevinC · Jan 8, 2020

Creekwood said:
Plus the diesel heater can be run without a generator running. I like the idea for that climate, but I would be installing the heater in the bilge, and running ducting into the cabin in some way.

Too bad they don't make a compact diesel powered air conditioner for warmer climates.

Yes, sounds interesting for cold temps but I would be very concerned about any exhaust leaks into the cabin. I have seen them recommended for RVs but installed out side and ducted in.

-Kevin

Roland Illvesand · Jan 8, 2020

ggrimes said:
Thanks for posting that pic with the panel removed. I was planning to access my a/c in the spring to check the drain pan and wondered how it would go. Seeing the panel removed and the mounting brackets give me peace of mind when I tackle the removal. Thanks!

These panels you need to disassemble to remove the large panel (In total 16 screws).

Roland Illvesand · Jan 8, 2020

KevinC said:
Question: Is that even safe for installing inside the cabin? Why not just use the heating mode of the AC unit for heat?

-Kevin

I cant use it when im out in the archipelago only when Im connected to shore power.
99% of my time Im out there.

Roland Illvesand · Jan 8, 2020

KevinC said:
Yes, sounds interesting for cold temps but I would be very concerned about any exhaust leaks into the cabin. I have seen them recommended for RVs but installed out side and ducted in.

-Kevin

This place is the only one that works. It is not allowed to install the heater or its exhaust pipe in the engine compartment when you have a gasoline Engine.
I will mount a CO detector close to the heater.

Lazy Daze · Jan 8, 2020

Rolland, I've seen these used before and they seem like a really good option for some situations. But, as Kevin asked, are they safe for use in a living area (carbon monoxide)? Where that's being installed is still a living area. Plus, the fuel lines are running through a living area.

Creek... in regards to installing it in a gas engine bilge... albeit without knowing a whole lot about these heater units... I would still think there is some type of heating element that is basically exposed and that would NOT be safe. I do recall someone on here installing one of these a few years ago on his Sundancer (maybe a 330 or 370?), but he installed in the cockpit, under a large seat (plenty of ventilation) so as to avoid both CO in the cabin and combustion problems in the bilge.

Roland Illvesand · Jan 8, 2020

Lazy Daze said:
Rolland, I've seen these used before and they seem like a really good option for some situations. But, as Kevin asked, are they safe for use in a living area (carbon monoxide)? Where that's being installed is still a living area. Plus, the fuel lines are running through a living area.

Creek... in regards to installing it in a gas engine bilge... albeit without knowing a whole lot about these heater units... I would still think there is some type of heating element that is basically exposed and that would NOT be safe. I do recall someone on here installing one of these a few years ago on his Sundancer (maybe a 330 or 370?), but he installed in the cockpit, under a large seat (plenty of ventilation) so as to avoid both CO in the cabin and combustion problems in the bilge.

At first I thought about mounting the heater in box # 9 but it is not sealed to the living area and with that I decided to mount the heater where the air conditioning unit has been located.
I will mount a CO detector close to the heater.

Creekwood · Jan 8, 2020

Lazy Daze said:
Rolland, I've seen these used before and they seem like a really good option for some situations. But, as Kevin asked, are they safe for use in a living area (carbon monoxide)? Where that's being installed is still a living area. Plus, the fuel lines are running through a living area.

Creek... in regards to installing it in a gas engine bilge... albeit without knowing a whole lot about these heater units... I would still think there is some type of heating element that is basically exposed and that would NOT be safe. I do recall someone on here installing one of these a few years ago on his Sundancer (maybe a 330 or 370?), but he installed in the cockpit, under a large seat (plenty of ventilation) so as to avoid both CO in the cabin and combustion problems in the bilge.

VERY good point. I retracted and re-edited my earlier comment. The cockpit makes more sense. I think it should not be installed in the living space or the bilge.

The OP is saying he will install it under the bed. I cannot think of a worse place to install a flame producing hot diesel heater than an unventilated place right under a berth. Even ignoring the CO risk, if a fire started in the storage under the bed, there is a huge risk you would not get out alive.

KevinC · Jan 8, 2020

Personally I think the option under the cockpit sink would be a safer choice although if not properly sealed off CO can still get into the closed cabin. I would use many CO detectors in this case. In fact I use 3 on my 340SDA without something like this installed.

-Kevin

Lazy Daze · Jan 9, 2020

I've thought about this a few times now. I really think you are playing with fire (no pun intended) by doing this. I don't know if you have kids, but ask yourself this: Would you be comfortable, knowing the risks, with letting your kids sleep down there (both mid-berth v-berth would both be compromised)?

You're right - under the sink is not really separate all that well from the area you're talking about using. It's pretty much a straight shot from behind the rear (actually stbd), false, undersink cabinet wall to the A/C area. I'm not even sure if that area is big enough with enough clearances? But if it's physically large enough, with a little ingenuity, you could probably seal it off properly to make it safe.

In reality, there may not be a safe place to put this on this particular model. Possibly the transom locker.

How are you handling exhaust?

Roland Illvesand · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy Daze Thanks for your concern!
Exhaust pipe will be connected to a through hull fitting (see picture)
Don’t forget that the heater will blow in 150-200 m3/h fresh air in to the cabin.
I will check if It’s possible to mount it under the sink cabinet.
Here is some pictures of heater installation.

Roland Illvesand · Feb 7, 2020

Almost finished with the installation. Did a test run, it was -5 Celsius = 23 Fahrenheit in the cabin and after 20 minutes it was +23 Celsius = 73.4 Fahrenheit
and to day I sold my air conditioner for 200$

KevinC · Feb 7, 2020

For safety reasons I would disconnect the AC feed from the panel side and not just leave the connections wrapped with tape.

-Kevin

Roland Illvesand · Feb 7, 2020

KevinC said:
For safety reasons I would disconnect the AC feed from the panel side and not just leave the connections wrapped with tape.

-Kevin

All ready done, this was only temporary when I disconnected the AC.

Marc Rainaldo · Feb 7, 2020

Here in the Netherlands we have cold days too. We were thinking of installing a diesel heater. The other options were:
- ac heater (lots of noice and when water temperature drops the ac has to work hard)
- electric heater (you need shorepower or genny)
- diesel heater (you need diesel and bad exhaust)

Some boats around us use the diesel heater and when you walk near that boat you smell it outside.

Because of that bad smell, the danger with a running dieselmotor when you are sleeping and that the diesel consumption cost is also higher then electricity cost decided that we bought a electric heater. No noise, no bad smells, savety switches and with the thermostat it ain’t running 24/7.

Just a thought......

Roland Illvesand · Feb 8, 2020

Marc Rainaldo said:
Here in the Netherlands we have cold days too. We were thinking of installing a diesel heater. The other options were:
- ac heater (lots of noice and when water temperature drops the ac has to work hard)
- electric heater (you need shorepower or genny)
- diesel heater (you need diesel and bad exhaust)

Some boats around us use the diesel heater and when you walk near that boat you smell it outside.

Because of that bad smell, the danger with a running dieselmotor when you are sleeping and that the diesel consumption cost is also higher then electricity cost decided that we bought a electric heater. No noise, no bad smells, savety switches and with the thermostat it ain’t running 24/7.

Just a thought......

97% of my time I’m out in the archipelago. Out there I don’t have shore power and I don’t have a genny so this is the best option.
I can’t see any difference between running a genny or a diesel heater. Both are noisy and smell a little bit.

Removing air conditioning in my 260 Sundancer

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