Radome or Array?

Charlesoceanone

Charlesoceanone

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2014
455
Harbor Shores Marina, St Joseph, Michigan
Boat Info
2013 58 Sedan Bridge
2021 Walker Bay LTE 11
Engines
Man 900
I am replacing my electronics with Raymarine Axiom XL 16 inch MFDs along with the radar on my boat. I have read and re read the information I can find on the internet on the New Doppler dome and the Magnum array and both seem like good products. I know the array is 72 miles and best visual quality over the 48 miles and medium quality picture. I’ve been on Raymarine forum and read the moderators take of the dome being middle of the road vrs the Magnum being top of the line array. They even have a nice graph about line of sight miles for radar. I’m not going to be mounting high enough to see 72 miles anyway and in this day and age will I even notice the picture quality.
I’m trying to justify if I really need to spend twice as much for nearly nothing extra or is it that much better and I am missing something.
 
The height of the radar is what allows you to “see” further. The dome or open array only changes the separation angle so an open array and distinguish better because the array is larger. 99% of folks will be just fine with a dome.

Now the discussion between being x band or Doppler is a whole different story and really will take more then this blurb to understand but I want to share one piece of information. We live in a very busy port (Galveston) where there is significant commercial traffic and I wouldn’t think of not using radar. My one complaint with broadband Doppler is the items appear at actual size on your screen. The x band radar shows some items artificially large like channel markers. This is because they have radar reflectors in them and I really like that. With broadband Doppler they are now small little dots and I really have to look for them. In hindsight I would have preferred x band over broadband Doppler because of this.

Just for reference I have furuno mfd and 4’ open array nxt radar.
 
I'm in the same position. I removed older 4' 4kW open array Pathfinder late last year and have been considering options. To me the question is what is the primary purpose for your radar. Close in target tracking, or longer range identification of targets (and bird flocks in particular for those fishing offshore).

I'm on an inland lake, so long distance radar performance is not a concern. What is a concern is the heavy traffic close in, and at night. I think this is where the Doppler radar makes the most sense to me. There are post on here and a dock neighbor have stories of almost running over small boat traffic at night with no lights on. Stupid on the small craft operator, but regardless of whose fault, I would feel awful, and if you have 1 pop and your in jail, unemployed etc. Doesn't take me long to justify the cost of upgrading the MFD and adding the Quantum 2 Dome.

Where I get lost, and I haven't been able to tell from the marketing hype, if the Magnum has these same features.

Based on what I know today, I'm opting to the Quantum 2 dome.
 
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While our boat is not tall enough to see vessels more than 12 plus miles out, the 72 mile range is useful when tracking thunderstorms moving a cross Lake Michigan. It has allowed us to continue on when I would have otherwise pulled into a Harbor of refuge to avoid bad weather. It provides a real time component to our NEXRAD which is delayed by 6 minutes and is not as precise our navigation radar. Of course these advantages apply only if you boat on large bodies of water where things can get dicey on short notice. The extra range eliminates the guess work aspects of weather forecasting.
 
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Here is a pic of our radar screen showing both sides of Lake Michigan on a trip we took last year. There was a a fair amount of fog and some random targets within 24 miles of our position. Nice to have the big picture when visibility is less than ideal.
 
Been pondering this also. Really like the quantum 2 doppler with target id . I am adding a Flir m232 camera by itself to test out first. Doesn't replace radar but it sees close in stuff better. Open big bodies of water would probably warrant an array. Inland I think doppler dome is plenty good.
Soon as you buy something these days its outdated.
 
I had to make the same decision last summer when I replaced my old equipment. I ended up with two 9” Axioms and the Magnum array, like sbw1 said I am not tall enough to benefit from the 72 mile distance but am really happy with the close range it’s much better than my old 24” dome for picking up those small fishing boats.....even in clear weather they are sometimes hard to spot with the naked eye. We travel in August which is prime time for all the salmon fishermen and they were be out in force even on foggy days so leaving port in even a light haze can be an issue. The Magnum has been very effective.
 
I will be putting the radar on my 52 DB hard top so it will be about 18-19 from the water line. I do like the idea of seeing channel markers in a bigger picture but I don’t see Raymarine advertising the X band radar. Do you know which models are x band?
On the weather advice my question would be if I have the xm weather overlay (which I have no experience with yet) wouldn’t this give me the weather a good distance out. If it doesn’t work they way I think it would I can definitely see the advantage for the Magnum. How Is the close range on the Magnum. Does anyone really track targets 72 miles away anyway? These are all just random questions but not being very knowledgeable on this product I like everyone’s perspectives who has. I have always just made do with the old analog equipment.
 
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Charlesoceanone said:
I will be putting the radar on my 52 DB hard top so it will be about 18-19 from the water line. I do like the idea of seeing channel markers in a bigger picture but I don’t see Raymarine advertising the X band radar. Do you know which models are x band?
On the weather advice my question would be if I have the xm weather overlay (which I have no experience with yet) wouldn’t this give me the weather a good distance out. If it doesn’t work they way I think it would I can definitely see the advantage for the Magnum. How Is the close range on the Magnum. Does anyone really track targets 72 miles away anyway? These are all just random questions but not being very knowledgeable on this product I like everyone’s perspectives who has. I have always just made do with the old analog equipment.
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Steve,
Here's an opinion:
I consider the Sirius/XM weather module to be one of the essential instruments that I couldn't be without. It accurately allows you to dodge storms or run between them if you can gauge their approach speed. You can see building and approaching storm cells, wind vectors and velocity along with lightning strikes. In the Great Lakes we don't get the wave height information however. I know that people use radar for predicting approaching weather but once you try the SR module you won't want to be without it, in my opinion.
I have an older SR-100 and was about to upgrade to Axiom displays from Classic E screens but the 100 is not compatible. So I would get the SR-150 but now that is obsolete as well while they await the introduction of the SR-200, due out in March. (according to the Raymarine rep at the Toronto Boat Show this week.) I have a subscription to Sirius/XM marine weather and I simply suspend the service when the boat goes away in the fall and re-activate it again in the spring. Fairly reasonable in cost too.
James
 
tiara in the snow 01.JPG
IMG_3896.JPG
Jaws said:
Steve,
Here's an opinion:
I consider the Sirius/XM weather module to be one of the essential instruments that I couldn't be without. It accurately allows you to dodge storms or run between them if you can gauge their approach speed. You can see building and approaching storm cells, wind vectors and velocity along with lightning strikes. In the Great Lakes we don't get the wave height information however. I know that people use radar for predicting approaching weather but once you try the SR module you won't want to be without it, in my opinion.
I have an older SR-100 and was about to upgrade to Axiom displays from Classic E screens but the 100 is not compatible. So I would get the SR-150 but now that is obsolete as well while they await the introduction of the SR-200, due out in March. (according to the Raymarine rep at the Toronto Boat Show this week.) I have a subscription to Sirius/XM marine weather and I simply suspend the service when the boat goes away in the fall and re-activate it again in the spring. Fairly reasonable in cost too.
James
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We do the same. We also do a split screen sometimes so we can look at live and NEXRAD siide by side. NEXRAD updates every 6 minutes so it is not quite real time but close. Here is a an example of what it looks like with a zoomed out screen. More detail is available by zooming in.
 
Jaws said:
Steve,
Here's an opinion:
I consider the Sirius/XM weather module to be one of the essential instruments that I couldn't be without. It accurately allows you to dodge storms or run between them if you can gauge their approach speed. You can see building and approaching storm cells, wind vectors and velocity along with lightning strikes. In the Great Lakes we don't get the wave height information however. I know that people use radar for predicting approaching weather but once you try the SR module you won't want to be without it, in my opinion.
I have an older SR-100 and was about to upgrade to Axiom displays from Classic E screens but the 100 is not compatible. So I would get the SR-150 but now that is obsolete as well while they await the introduction of the SR-200, due out in March. (according to the Raymarine rep at the Toronto Boat Show this week.) I have a subscription to Sirius/XM marine weather and I simply suspend the service when the boat goes away in the fall and re-activate it again in the spring. Fairly reasonable in cost too.
James
Click to expand...

James
I had heard that the satellite weather is a must have so I’m glad I’m going this direction also. Curious if the rep said anything about what the improvement will be on the SR 200 over the SR 150?
 
Charlesoceanone said:
James
I had heard that the satellite weather is a must have so I’m glad I’m going this direction also. Curious if the rep said anything about what the improvement will be on the SR 200 over the SR 150?
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Sorry, he did not say what the new SR 200 would do that the SR 150 could not. I cannot see the new unit listed anywhere but I am in communication with the technical rep. All that I know is the SR 150 is no longer being produced. If I find out something more, I will post it.
One exciting new development is the "Augmented Reality" from Raymarine and it requires a forward facing outdoor camera. Basically it puts all your navaids ahead on your "highway screen" so you know which buoy is next. Pretty impressive in the boat show demo at least. Like the weather module it will hopefully make navigation easier, safer, and more predictable.
 
Charlesoceanone said:
That does sound pretty cool. That is on the Aziomxl units, correct?
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It was available on the Axiom Pro 12 that I was looking at. I was under the assumption that the Lighthouse 3 software made this possible and if so, then any Axiom model should have that capability. I'm just guessing though....
Hoping that someone with knowledge of the current Raymarine offerings might chip in. I only got the five minute boat show version, but it was impressive.
 
This is from the Raymarine website. It might be useful if you already have any Axiom screen.

"ClearCruise AR feature will be a free update for Axiom, Axiom Pro and Axiom XL multifunction displays.Download LightHouse 3.7 for the Axiom family.

ClearCruise AR requires AR200 Video Stabilization Module and either CAM220 or CAM210 to operate."
 
Back on the radar - keep in mind the wider the antenna array the better targets can be discerned and separated regardless of distance from the boat. For example, what looks to be a channel marker on a dome radar is really not only the marker but a couple of small boats very close to the marker. The domes do not have the width so parallax is limited to separate the targets. This is the primary reason I prefer a wide open array. Distance capability is primarily related to the unit's transmitting power and obviously how high the antenna is located; I look at the distance capability for weather but otherwise as advertising hype.
 
I just upgraded from a Series to Axiom to get the doppler radar function. The ClearCruise AR is a function of the Lighthouse 3 software (I think it was part of 3.7), and the camera is about $1k, plus the necessary cables wiring and other bits. I think a lot of the information also depends on having at least an AIS receiver onboard to see other vessels, but it will show you bouys and navigation markers.

I doubt many recreational boats have an AIS transmitter, so limited utility for me.

I think I'll use EyeBall Reality- thats were I use the information I have and confirm it with my own eyeballs. Works well, lasts long and much cheaper.
 
Perhaps this is a weird opinion - but I think bigger boats look a little unusual with the domes vs the arrays. Once you hit that 37/38 foot mark it just looks like you deserve a 4' array. Ditch the dome! :):)
 
Stee6043 said:
Perhaps this is a weird opinion - but I think bigger boats look a little unusual with the domes vs the arrays. Once you hit that 37/38 foot mark it just looks like you deserve a 4' array. Ditch the dome! :):)
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I was gonna say, nobody has mentioned the "cool" factor yet.
 
I think there’s a joke about the size of your manhood vs radar antenna size in here somewhere...lol.

Looks are one thing...performance is another. The Raymarine open arrays don’t have the Doppler, at least not yet, and I think this is one of the best new features out there safety wise in a long time.
 
From what I see the Doppler give the targets in color. The background then appears to be colorless. In the Magnum array I’m reading it leaves wake trails? It also is to be more precise in the definition of targets from the Raymarine write ups. I’m thinking the distance is not anything more than just a number because I’m not going to mount it high enough to get 72 miles!
 
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