Calling all canvas people....Let's have an honest discussion....

Going back to window material ..I just had an experience with a new front window. I had 3 polycarbonate panels in the front that looked amazing when new, but after even a month despite meticulous care, they developed surface scratches. After two years, the middle panel was starting to fog. This past weekend I was removing the panel to enjoy the cool evening air at an anchorage and pop ..it cracked right through about 2ft long. I didn’t think I bent it that much, but pretty much ruined. I went to my canvas guy who sold me on heavy gauge strataglass and so that’s what I replaced it with. Honestly, I can’t tell the difference between the center strataglass and the polycarbonate starboard and port sides. It’s flexible and rollable, but appears to the eye as rigid as the other two panels. And it’s definitely just as clear if not clearer. I’m told it will hold up much better than the other two over time. I’ll eventually replace the other two with Strataglass as well as they have surface scratches that won’t come out. And again ..I was always super careful and meticulous with these. After the crack, I’m done with polycarbonate. Strataglass looks just as good, and will continue to look good for longer. My guy did the center panel for $200 in a day.

Center strataglass, front sides polycarbonate. You can see the swirls on the exterior shot as well as some of the fogging beginning. Polycarbonates are a little dirty here but still ..

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This topic has come up a lot on different grades of polycarbonate.. This pic was taken Labor Day ... The poly is 3 years old and looks like the day I got it ($500/panel). I wash the poly once a week with the same boat brush I do the boat with and no scratches.
Not a great pic but if you look at the boat behind me...he just replaced his polycarbonate this season and its sagging and the optics are distorting... So without a doubt the are good and bad polycarbonates out there

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I must have had bad, because it looks nothing like yours after two years. Like I said I loved the way it looked new but as anal as I am about the boat, the surface scratches drive me nuts. Regardless, I’m over it. Willing to try this route with the heavy strataglass. Granted it won’t be as smooth/rigid as the poly but I think I’m ok with that for now. Guess the bigger test will be on the curved front side panels and whether they sag and distort the view. That’s what happened on my old boat, but that was also a much lighter gauge clear vinyl ..not this heavy strataglass. At $200/panel (which is really more like $160 US) Im happy to compromise a bit. Especially if they don’t develop surface scratches that won’t buff out! :)
 
My only issue with strataglass is the waviness that occurs if its not tight enough. I think if you can remove any amount of sag it could look just as good as the poly hoever not always possible with some contours. I also think the constant rolling up of the strataglass introduces scratches at certain points which becomes quite obvious over time. We had polycarbonate on our 320 and it held up great for over 3 season until we sold. Decided to go with similar poly on our DB and so glad we did. We had 2 shops quote give us a quote on both and i was surprised that the price difference wasn't that far off between the polycarbonate and the strata. However i'm not looking forward to taking it down and storing it this winters.
 
Update ====

This thread has gone dormant and I thought I'd fill you guys in on what I did and how it went...

I did, in fact, purchase the Omega machine awhile back, but never got around to attempting to use it until this past week. I purchased some V92 thread, watched two videos. One on bobbin threading and the other on learning to sew... I threaded the bobbin and reinstalled it...Followed the instructions on how to thread the machine and hoped for the best.

I didn't have any test material, but all I planned on doing was reattaching zippers where the seams had come apart.

So, I started with a seam and gave it a try, and thankfully (surprisingly) it sewed! I was able to sew all the seems that needed repair in a few hours time...What was frustrating (I had to laugh) was when I went to zip the canvas back up another seam would start to fail. So, I'd pull the panel back off and sew up that seam as well...Still even with the additional seems it was done in an afternoon....

That gave me the confidence to replace a vinyl panel that had been blown out and totally destroyed...And, that went real well also...

I even figured out a solution to a problem where two panels were too tight to fit together without risk of ripping seams...I bought a zipper and unzipped it and sewed it together reversed to make an 1" extension. So, now that seam actually has two zippers bit fits nicely...

Is it perfect? Nope...Am I a pro? Not even....Will I continue to knock out projects? You bet....It was actually easier than I expected.

I know this is a far cry from doing complete canvas work, but it's a start....

Advice....

1. Use Seam Stick ( I didn't until I did the vinyl), it helps move things faster and easier.
2. Thread multiple bobbins at once so you have spares.
3. Go slow

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Nice work!

I bought the Omega machine last winter and made new cushions. Time consuming but well worth it.
 
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Good start, I too am doing some canvas work. I bought a used Brother commercial walking foot machine and replaced all of my glass. I want to eventually customize my bridge enclosure and wanted to do a larger project. A fellow dock mate has an older Bay Liner that he doesn't have a lot of money in so I offered to build an entire enclosure for him for cost of materials. I have the top and forward windows complete and am now about to do the aft camper panels. The project is coming out pretty well for what it is.
Advice : buy pre-wound bobbins by the gross, Invest in a hot knife and measure twice before cutting once! Ill post pics when its done. I now find myself inspecting every canvas enclosure I encounter to pic up tips and boo boos.
CD
 
I bought a 98 290 sundancer that sat under shrinkwrap for 7 years. All canvas was hung in his garage but in great shape. After hours of trying to put it all together i realized that this was not going to work and that the canvas had shrunk a bit. I did some research and found this company. Super easy to install and adds about 1 inch to your zip. After installing everything fit perfect.
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I have a broken zipper on my aft canvas. I know it sounds simple but whats the best way to replace just the zipper. I removed a same sized zipper from an old canvas but I'm not sure the best way to get the new one on.
 
@Irie308 .... Not sure I understand...What's broken? If you simply want to replace the zipper, use a razor blade and carefully cut it out and sew in the other one....It's best to get double-sided "SeamStick" tape ( I used 3/8") to pre-apply the zipper and keep it from moving while you sew...Or go to a canvas shop with the piece and they will prob do it cheap.
 
Boat Guy said:
@Irie308 .... Not sure I understand...What's broken? If you simply want to replace the zipper, use a razor blade and carefully cut it out and sew in the other one....It's best to get double-sided "SeamStick" tape ( I used 3/8") to pre-apply the zipper and keep it from moving while you sew...Or go to a canvas shop with the piece and they will prob do it cheap.
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Just the zipper itself broke. Not sure how to get a new one on past the stopper that keeps it from falling off.
 
Irie308 said:
Just the zipper itself broke. Not sure how to get a new one on past the stopper that keeps it from falling off.
Click to expand...

Ahhh.... The slider....I just did this today.

I guess it depends on your stopper and how perfect you want the job.

Mine was simple, as the stopper was simply a piece of vinyl sewn over the last few teeth. I just unzipped the panel so the slider was only on one side and I simply cut a small portion of the stopper and pushed it out of the way and took the zipper off and slid a new one on...Took 3 minutes max.... But when I push the vinyl back in place it has a cut, so not perfect. It does it's job in stopping the slider and perhaps next season I will sew in another stopper, but it serves it's purpose.

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Boat Guy said:
Ahhh.... The slider....I just did this today.

I guess it depends on your stopper and how perfect you want the job.

Mine was simple, as the stopper was simply a piece of vinyl sewn over the last few teeth. I just unzipped the panel so the slider was only on one side and I simply cut a small portion of the stopper and pushed it out of the way and took the zipper off and slid a new one on...Took 3 minutes max.... But when I push the vinyl back in place it has a cut, so not perfect. It does it's job in stopping the slider and perhaps next season I will sew in another stopper, but it serves it's purpose.

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Irie308 said:
Just the zipper itself broke. Not sure how to get a new one on past the stopper that keeps it from falling off.
Click to expand...

You might have to cut out the last tooth on each side before the stop and slide the pull off and put a new one on. Depending on the zipper type you have options to add a new stop.

Like @Boat Guy said you could 1) sew on a canvas or vinyl patch over the end, 2) if they are #10 YKK Vislon (6 TPI) they make stainless stops that crimp over the last tooth or 3) get a scrap tooth (possibly to one you cut out) and manually insert it between two teeth and melt it to the other teeth with a hot knife or soldering iron.

All three of these methods are commonly used to form a stop. Personally I use the melt in method when doing new work.

-Kevin
 
Thanks, will give it a shot.
 
MonacoMike said:
A few observations from this thread.

Seems different areas have different options than I have in my area. In my area, the canvas guys are like Quint, small shop proprietors who do this after they retire. Don’t know of any big companies.

They all are so busy with work that they don’t have time to come do estimates, so they probably are doing a favor if they come out and do one. All the canvas people in our area already are booked for the winter.

Companies that do hire employees are paying 30 to 40% over the hourly rate of the employee.

If you are doing it professionally the overhead is far greater than most here are expressing as there are many specialty tools that are very expensive needed to install various fasteners that boat manufacturers use.

Most everyone underestimates the cost of running a business dramatically. The insurance, taxes, let a guest clients, and fuel expenses are high.

None of the above applies if you were doing a labor of love with your sewing machine for your boat. But there is no mystery to me why canvas cost so much...

MM
Click to expand...

The boating market outside of maybe Florida is just too small to support businesses like good canvas shops, where good is defined as very high quality, not being on an 18 month waiting list, quick estimates, etc.

My guess after years of working in IT consulting is that a lot of small businesses are basically run right at the margins by people who are not business experts. Chances are if they started a canvas business, it wasn't the byproduct of a market analysis and a data-driven business plan, it was because they had a blue-collar background and could get the business off the ground using their own labor before hiring extra employees. And every dollar of expense is seen as a reduction of the owner's take home pay.

I had a client whose entire business revolved around an application they developed for which there was no off the shelf replacement. They were in dire need of upgrades as they were exceeding capacity on equipment out of warranty. They delayed endlessly and the operations manager confided in me that part of the delay was due to the owner's new home being built in Florida and his "need" of additional high-performance German sports vehicles to be kept in the Florida home sapping the firm's ability to marshal capital.

I doubt the canvas businesses are this bad, but I'd wager it's because their margins are so low they're more worried about any profit at all.
 
I know this post is a couple of months old but I have to jump in here. I also use Sailrite for my materials and have bought an old 1941 model singer industrial machine to do my sewing. It does take a bit of getting use to since it sews 5000 stitches per minute so you have to feather it. Back to the reason I chimed in I have just finished my second boat cover and have also made a spare tire cover for my Rv , side panels for my Bayliner cutty, recovered the rear bottom seat, front covers for the teak rails in the front of my Sea Ray 240 Sundancer , made a jumpseat at the back captain bench, and will be recovering the back of the captains seat with new vinyl. Now I am not a pro just a boat owner that is retired . My work is not perfect some of the seams are crooked, corners not perfect but I have the pride to know that I made everything myself. I followed the videos that are on Sailrite's website and I feel they do a great job instructing from start to finish. One thing is you have to have a industrial sewing machine, I killed one machine before getting the old singer and wish I would of purchased the machine Sailrite sells would of been alot easier to do the work and taken less time. So is it worth sending your boat to a shop to have work done, if you have a good shop and the money, Yes, but if you have the time and want to take a chance and do it yourself for alot less money then give it shot. I had alot of fun making all that stuff and saved several thousand dollors. Good luck with your project.
 
Here's mine. I found this gem that had been in storage 30 years . The side windows and back window canvas had never been used. We love it. Just a hassle to put and take down for pulling the boat on the hwy and some of the snaps are to get snaped.
 

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After reading all the prices I'm glade to have Amish near to take all the canvas and interior work to. When I first had the canvas replaced on the 39 it had a Bimini top made and a custom in closer for the back. The back was extended from the radar bar so the drop canvas would come off the extension to the transom. All canvas work cost $2500 complete.
The outside seating needed redone. Took it all off the boat Captains chair, passenger chair, both seat pads behind the captains chair and passengers chair, three cushions in the back, and the bolster that goes all the way around the back.
All had new wood replaced, blue foam. $2000 locally prices were 2 times the cost. And yes it was all marine grade material.
2 years later the canvas had to be replaced under a insurance claim. Cost was $4800 for a local canvas shop to do the same job.
 
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