A 260 sundancer with 6.5 kw. gen. set. See pics

hpcrank

hpcrank

Member
Feb 4, 2016
145
Col. Spgs, Co-Lake Pueblo State Park
Boat Info
1981 260 Sundancer with rebuilt 454/Mercruiser330-I/O. w/ alum. hard top with front and side wdos
Engines
One rebuilt 330 hp. 454 Chevy
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Greetings

I have been told by many folks on this site that my 26 ft. boat cant have a gen. this size in front of the V berth. Well it does and there is a generous anchor rode locker with windlass ahead of that. See attached photos.

V.R.
Hpcrank:cool:
20200119_150932.jpg
 
Note... We didn't say that it "can't" have it. But you had thought that it was made that way by Sea Ray. That's the part we were trying to get across to you - Sea Ray did not make your boat that way - it is something that a previous owner did, which it is. But, most importantly, we were/are offering warnings of how unsafe this could be.
 
Lazy Daze said:
Note... We didn't say that it "can't" have it. But you had thought that it was made that way by Sea Ray. That's the part we were trying to get across to you - Sea Ray did not make your boat that way - it is something that a previous owner did, which it is. But, most importantly, we were/are offering warnings of how unsafe this could be.
Click to expand...

Hi
That isn't the vibe I caught, my bad (again).

As for safety I will bring the bulkhead between the V berth and the gen. compartment up to an equivalent 1/2 hour fire rating (UL or Warnock-Hersey), install an automatic fire extinguisher and gasoline fuel sensor alarm. I will install a racing fuel cell (+/- 5 gal. with outside fill and vent) in the gen. compartment using shielded race rated fuel line and A.N. fittings and s.stl. hardware. I will also remove the old gas line that runs thru the cabin. The gen. compartment already has an exhaust fan which I will supplement with another fan that will run continuously while the gen. set is in operation. the final item concerning the V berth bulkhead will be the installation of a fire port. Also note, not latching the gen. compartment hatch serves as an explosion relief panel.

The cabin is already equipped with a smoke and heat detector alarm and a carbon monoxide detector alarm and an A-B-C fire extinguisher. Please note that we will never run the generator while sleeping or away from the boat.

I believe the foregoing will make the gen. install at least as safe as a 100 gal. gas tank located against the rear berth bulkhead and a 454 carbed big block Chevy 3" ahead of the gas tank as designed and installed by Sea Ray.o_O

V.R.
Hpcrank:cool:
 
hpcrank said:
Hi
That isn't the vibe I caught, my bad (again).

As for safety I will bring the bulkhead between the V berth and the gen. compartment up to an equivalent 1/2 hour fire rating (UL or Warnock-Hersey), install an automatic fire extinguisher and gasoline fuel sensor alarm. I will install a racing fuel cell (+/- 5 gal. with outside fill and vent) in the gen. compartment using shielded race rated fuel line and A.N. fittings and s.stl. hardware. I will also remove the old gas line that runs thru the cabin. The gen. compartment already has an exhaust fan which I will supplement with another fan that will run continuously while the gen. set is in operation. the final item concerning the V berth bulkhead will be the installation of a fire port. Also note, not latching the gen. compartment hatch serves as an explosion relief panel.

The cabin is already equipped with a smoke and heat detector alarm and a carbon monoxide detector alarm and an A-B-C fire extinguisher. Please note that we will never run the generator while sleeping or away from the boat.

I believe the foregoing will make the gen. install at least as safe as a 100 gal. gas tank located against the rear berth bulkhead and a 454 carbed big block Chevy 3" ahead of the gas tank as designed and installed by Sea Ray.o_O

V.R.
Hpcrank:cool:
Click to expand...

Your still not going to have any luck finding someone to insure this boat.
 
Sounds like you know how to protect against a fire starting in the generator room and have sound rules as to when to run and not run the generator.

Please read my post on the boat wiring on your previous thread.

Are you familiar with ABYC and NMMA guidelines on these types of things?
 
How this is what your V berth used to look like from SR before someone else added a generator to most of that space.
In THIS particular case, the portable Honda on the swim platform is looking like a much safer alternative. Be safe and good luck!
 

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I’m sure your boat has potential. Get rid of that generator and sell it (assuming it runs). You’ll be money ahead and then go and enjoy the boat. I mean it’s a 260 Searay that was never designed with a factory option (for that year). What do you really need that bomb for anyway? That installation is insane. I can’t believe someone did that. Sell the genny and go enjoy your vessel. Being on the water is what it’s all about. Take care.
 
techmitch said:
Your still not going to have any luck finding someone to insure this boat.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to encourage this guy but....in this size range I doubt most insurers require a survey. Just a hull ID and a some money...?
 
hpcrank said:
Hi
That isn't the vibe I caught, my bad (again).

As for safety I will bring the bulkhead between the V berth and the gen. compartment up to an equivalent 1/2 hour fire rating (UL or Warnock-Hersey), install an automatic fire extinguisher and gasoline fuel sensor alarm. I will install a racing fuel cell (+/- 5 gal. with outside fill and vent) in the gen. compartment using shielded race rated fuel line and A.N. fittings and s.stl. hardware. I will also remove the old gas line that runs thru the cabin. The gen. compartment already has an exhaust fan which I will supplement with another fan that will run continuously while the gen. set is in operation. the final item concerning the V berth bulkhead will be the installation of a fire port. Also note, not latching the gen. compartment hatch serves as an explosion relief panel.

The cabin is already equipped with a smoke and heat detector alarm and a carbon monoxide detector alarm and an A-B-C fire extinguisher. Please note that we will never run the generator while sleeping or away from the boat.

I believe the foregoing will make the gen. install at least as safe as a 100 gal. gas tank located against the rear berth bulkhead and a 454 carbed big block Chevy 3" ahead of the gas tank as designed and installed by Sea Ray.o_O

V.R.
Hpcrank:cool:
Click to expand...

I'd save your money on the fire proofing. Unless you also plan to remove all of that spray foam?
 
Stee6043 said:
I'm not trying to encourage this guy but....in this size range I doubt most insurers require a survey. Just a hull ID and a some money...?
Click to expand...
It's probably hit or miss, although that's a valid point. Some companies will require a survey simply because of the age. When I bought my 24' Grady about 5 or 6 years ago (it's a 1982), the insurance did require a survey. Because of my position, though, they allowed me to do it myself. They had about 3 pages of questions/concerns that needed to be answered/documented.
 
Bridog said:
How this is what your V berth used to look like from SR before someone else added a generator to most of that space.
In THIS particular case, the portable Honda on the swim platform is looking like a much safer alternative. Be safe and good luck!
Click to expand...

I was hoping someone would find a picture of the original layout compared to the current condition.

My first thought when seeing those photos was "There's no way that's a factory installation". The second was "that's sketchy has hell".

Going back to my earlier comment to give this guy the benefit of the doubt that there's an generator installed in that space, clearly it's there. However, the original post seemed to be more related to if this was a Sea Ray factory option. I think we can all agree from the condition of the installation and the pic of the original lay out that the genny was added post-delivery.

As for safety, operation, necessity, etc. As I said, these looks really sketchy. All the foam. Foam burying the muffler. Rats nest wiring. Questionable fuel lines. Generally shabby appearance of the gen set. Massive oversizing of the gen set relative to the electricity demand. Weird location at the bow. This whole thing seems like - forgive the term - an ill-advised redneck project. I really don't see how it's safe to operate it. Plus it took out the v-berth.
 
HP- No issue with whether the insurance company would put a policy on this boat for you... With this gen install, they won't. Your biggest concern, is that as soon as they see it, they'll cancel every other policy you have.

Don't even THINK of putting in a 'racing fuel cell', or any other non-marine componentry in a marine application. Get that gen and all it's equipment out, cut out all the spray-foam, pull out all the wiring mess, the exhaust, etc., and have a qualified marine mechanic correct whatever fuel-system plumbing was hacked-up when it was built. turn the bow compartment it back into a V-berth, or at least, an open closet for lifejackets.

Boat manufacturers do NOT put generators in the bows of powerboats, because heavy objects in the nose of V-hull boats don't STAY. The nose is where all the most violent motion occurs.. it is in the order of several G. Once you've been over a few good wakes, that generator will break free, and bounce around that cavity, thrashing into everything. Marine generators are to be located very low in the bilge, mounted securely to stringers towards the aft end, where there is the least acceleration due to pitch, yaw, and roll, where the center-of-gravity is kept low, and where forced ventilation and fire safety is integral to the manufacturer's design of the vessel.

Get two more marine deep-cycle batteries, mount them in ABYC battery boxes, with explosion-proof marine switches, and run them to a marine inverter/charger unit (Magnum, Xantrex, and others make some great units). Tie that into your shore-power panel. There's absolutely NO reason to have a 6.5kw gen in that boat in the first place. Modern stuff draws substantially less than the stuff people brought on boats 25 years ago. A 2000w inverter will run anything you 'need'... shore-power does the rest. If you want to have it really slick, mount some solar panels on the deck, or (if you have a hardtop sunshade, up there), and wire them to your inverter/charger.

By yanking out that pig, and selling it, you'll lose a total of about 550lbs of equipment from the nose of the boat... this will improve it's performance SUBSTANTIALLY... speed, fuel economy, handling, stability... and selling it will put around $1000 into your project fund. A Xantrex 2kw will run about $1100, and you'll have another $280 in batteries (a pair of Group 27 deep cycles) $40 for a marine battery switch, $40 for a pair of battery boxes, around $100 for cable and supplies to fit it up.

Putting in an inverter and two deep cycles will come in at under 110lbs. The battery weight will be in the engine compartment, so your planing efficiency will STAY good. The inverter will be quiet, maintenance-free, and always available to power whatever you need to plug in. Use marine-type 120v wiring, follow the instructions. You will NOT be sorry with the result... you'll use less fuel, run faster when you need to, have more usable space, and won't be a liability on the water.

Wanna give the boat a serious operational upgrade for next-to-nothing? Yank all the incandescent lamps, replace them with LEDs. Leave the red/green and running lights as incandescent, but change the ANCHOR lights to LED. Clean the contacts up good (LEDs are finicky about that, which is why I say leave the running lights as incandescent). This will allow you to overnight at anchor, and run lighting with minimal battery drain. Do what most other boaters do- move all the HOUSE loads (lights, ETC) over to your deep cycle batteries, and keep the existing cranking batteries JUST for cranking the engine, dash gauges, trim pump, trim tabs, running the bilge blower, and primary bilge pump.

A bonus: Get a set of waterproof trailer LED backup lights (By default, they're explosion-proof, because they're hermetically sealed) and install one on each side of your engine compartment, with a switch that is OUTSIDE the compartment (explosion protection here!). Do the same for your storage lockers and other critical equipment spaces, that way, If you need to hunt out that anchor, get some fenders or lines out, investigate a strange sound, or throw the handles on the macerator pump, you can have good light where you need it the most, and they'll draw only a minute amount of power.
 
Wisdom aside (and it clearly was for the installer), what in the hell would you do with 6.5 kw on a 26 ft boat? Well from a practical sense, its effectively now a 23 foot boat. This looks like a clear case of "because I can" vs. "because I should".

All that's needed now is a plywood bow-cover to complete the look.
 
DaveKamp said:
HP- No issue with whether the insurance company would put a policy on this boat for you... With this gen install, they won't. Your biggest concern, is that as soon as they see it, they'll cancel every other policy you have.

Don't even THINK of putting in a 'racing fuel cell', or any other non-marine componentry in a marine application. Get that gen and all it's equipment out, cut out all the spray-foam, pull out all the wiring mess, the exhaust, etc., and have a qualified marine mechanic correct whatever fuel-system plumbing was hacked-up when it was built. turn the bow compartment it back into a V-berth, or at least, an open closet for lifejackets.

Boat manufacturers do NOT put generators in the bows of powerboats, because heavy objects in the nose of V-hull boats don't STAY. The nose is where all the most violent motion occurs.. it is in the order of several G. Once you've been over a few good wakes, that generator will break free, and bounce around that cavity, thrashing into everything. Marine generators are to be located very low in the bilge, mounted securely to stringers towards the aft end, where there is the least acceleration due to pitch, yaw, and roll, where the center-of-gravity is kept low, and where forced ventilation and fire safety is integral to the manufacturer's design of the vessel.

Get two more marine deep-cycle batteries, mount them in ABYC battery boxes, with explosion-proof marine switches, and run them to a marine inverter/charger unit (Magnum, Xantrex, and others make some great units). Tie that into your shore-power panel. There's absolutely NO reason to have a 6.5kw gen in that boat in the first place. Modern stuff draws substantially less than the stuff people brought on boats 25 years ago. A 2000w inverter will run anything you 'need'... shore-power does the rest. If you want to have it really slick, mount some solar panels on the deck, or (if you have a hardtop sunshade, up there), and wire them to your inverter/charger.

By yanking out that pig, and selling it, you'll lose a total of about 550lbs of equipment from the nose of the boat... this will improve it's performance SUBSTANTIALLY... speed, fuel economy, handling, stability... and selling it will put around $1000 into your project fund. A Xantrex 2kw will run about $1100, and you'll have another $280 in batteries (a pair of Group 27 deep cycles) $40 for a marine battery switch, $40 for a pair of battery boxes, around $100 for cable and supplies to fit it up.

Putting in an inverter and two deep cycles will come in at under 110lbs. The battery weight will be in the engine compartment, so your planing efficiency will STAY good. The inverter will be quiet, maintenance-free, and always available to power whatever you need to plug in. Use marine-type 120v wiring, follow the instructions. You will NOT be sorry with the result... you'll use less fuel, run faster when you need to, have more usable space, and won't be a liability on the water.

Wanna give the boat a serious operational upgrade for next-to-nothing? Yank all the incandescent lamps, replace them with LEDs. Leave the red/green and running lights as incandescent, but change the ANCHOR lights to LED. Clean the contacts up good (LEDs are finicky about that, which is why I say leave the running lights as incandescent). This will allow you to overnight at anchor, and run lighting with minimal battery drain. Do what most other boaters do- move all the HOUSE loads (lights, ETC) over to your deep cycle batteries, and keep the existing cranking batteries JUST for cranking the engine, dash gauges, trim pump, trim tabs, running the bilge blower, and primary bilge pump.

A bonus: Get a set of waterproof trailer LED backup lights (By default, they're explosion-proof, because they're hermetically sealed) and install one on each side of your engine compartment, with a switch that is OUTSIDE the compartment (explosion protection here!). Do the same for your storage lockers and other critical equipment spaces, that way, If you need to hunt out that anchor, get some fenders or lines out, investigate a strange sound, or throw the handles on the macerator pump, you can have good light where you need it the most, and they'll draw only a minute amount of power.
Click to expand...

Whoa nelly. When folks issue such directives, in ALL CAPS, I have this irrational desire to immediately do what they are telling me not to. I guess I need to figure out if I can mount a small gen under my master berth now. Thanks for that...

You realize that many of us have air conditioners, 100G+ water tanks, battery systems, bow thrusters, all mounted in the very furthest forward portions of our boats/hulls? I think you're comments on "proper location" are a bit off base. A generator doesn't belong in a living space but it's got nothing to do with those spaces being unsuitable for mounting large, heavy, mission critical equipment.

Two year old thread also, fellas. But a great one. I wish we could get an update from the OP...
 
bobeast said:
Wisdom aside (and it clearly was for the installer), what in the hell would you do with 6.5 kw on a 26 ft boat? Well from a practical sense, its effectively now a 23 foot boat. This looks like a clear case of "because I can" vs. "because I should".

All that's needed now is a plywood bow-cover to complete the look.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same. If I walked onto the boat as a guest, or a prospective buyer, I could not get off of it fast enough. Wow, just wow.
 
Stee6043 said:
...You realize that many of us have air conditioners, 100G+ water tanks, battery systems, bow thrusters, all mounted in the very furthest forward portions of our boats/hulls?
Click to expand...

If you have all that in the bow locker of a 26ft Sundancer, you don't have to worry about planing dynamics or G forces, as your propeller will be totally ventilated.
 
DaveKamp said:
If you have all that in the bow locker of a 26ft Sundancer, you don't have to worry about planing dynamics or G forces, as your propeller will be totally ventilated.
Click to expand...

You didn't qualify your remarks based on size of the boat. In fact they were quite absolute...and you even used all caps a couple times :)

"Boat manufacturers do NOT put generators in the bows of powerboats, because heavy objects in the nose of V-hull boats don't STAY. The nose is where all the most violent motion occurs.. it is in the order of several G. Once you've been over a few good wakes, that generator will break free, and bounce around that cavity, thrashing into everything. Marine generators are to be located very low in the bilge, mounted securely to stringers towards the aft end, where there is the least acceleration due to pitch, yaw, and roll, where the center-of-gravity is kept low, and where forced ventilation and fire safety is integral to the manufacturer's design of the vessel."
 
This thread hurts my soul
 
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