Currently boat-less. We were on Brookville Lake. We boated the river when we had the 290DA.
Would like to buy a fresh water boat on the river and take it by water to the East coast (were we plan to retire to next year....North Carolina).
Opinion on Carver
- Thread starter Jaybeaux
- Start date
Currently boat-less. We were on Brookville Lake. We boated the river when we had the 290DA.
Would like to buy a fresh water boat on the river and take it by water to the East coast (were we plan to retire to next year....North Carolina).
390x
Member
My family had a 1987 Carver 38 Aft Cabin from 1998-2018. It was a great boat. In many ways it was better than my 39 Sea Ray of the same general vintage (1989). In some ways my Sea Ray was better (better gelcoat for one thing). Overall however, I do think the Carver had my Sea Ray beat. the Carver came in at 27000 pounds every spring, and ran about 26 MPH wide open. My Sea Ray with the same power but those damned tunnel drives weighed a full 11k less, and ran about 1 MPH faster on its best day....maybe. The Carver had big wheels (24x24), and handled really well. The little baby props and tunnels on my Sea Ray really sucked, to be honest. The Carver's fit and finish was just as good or better as far cabinetry, and interior appointments. The rigging in the engine room on the Sea Ray was a bit better even though the engine room layout was abysmal. You could easily get to everything in the engine room on the Carver. Not necessarily so on the Sea Ray. I know these boats are much older than what you're talking about, but I don't think the quality of the Carver's went downhill, so from my experience, the hype of Sea Ray over Carver wasn't justified at all.
My advice is worth what you paid for it.
My advice is worth what you paid for it.
Phasma
Phasma2128
Ididntdoit
Well-Known Member
David Pascoe RIP........He Loved Sea Ray boats too LOL
JimT
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2009
- 1,910
- Boat Info
- 2010 330 Sundancer
- Engines
- T-350mags w/BIIIs & Axius, 5.0 kw Kohler
Was there any mass production boat that actually met Pascoe's standards?
Right. I’m not so sure there was. Maybe Hatteras.
He at least tolerated Tiara. And while I like his stuff, he comes from a certain perspective and doesn’t necessarily agree that today’s boats serve different purposes.
joeyleggz
Well-Known Member
- Jan 15, 2013
- 878
- Boat Info
- current boat: 1997 sea ray 330 express cruiser
- Engines
- twin 454's efi
Great read!!! Man knew his stuff
JimT
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2009
- 1,910
- Boat Info
- 2010 330 Sundancer
- Engines
- T-350mags w/BIIIs & Axius, 5.0 kw Kohler
What Pascoe ignored is that there is a compromise between build quality, price and profitability. His articles were very informative but his preachiness could get tiresome. I realize my SeaRay is not an oceangoing vessel. Maybe some carefully planned island hopping at best. But it suits my needs on the lake and at the coast. That is what it was designed for.
David Pascoe was an eccentric who obsessed on the worst in everything he looked at. He was not a practical man, as an experienced and balanced surveyor should be.
I own a 1993 Sea Ray 290, one of which he panned relentlessly in an old article, well read on the web. He remarked that the wood backing on upholstered panels were wet and rotting, that there was a high tide line in the bilge, that here were leaks at windows and on and on. I believe he found a seriously neglected boat and based his entire, biased opinion of thousands of Sea Rays on that meager evidence. Totally presumptuous and unprofessional. Pascoe did like to preach, as though he was the sole authority on all things boat related.
He commented on soft decks and hulls that deflected easily. On my boat, the deck is rock solid underfoot and my 240 pounds cannot cause the deflection he notes, at the rub rail. Where does he come up with this stuff? The cockpit upholstery on my boat is original and shows very little wear and no deterioration. The water pump is not low in the bilge, as he says but well up, under an mid-cabin inspection cover. The lower pump drains the shower. As for bilge pumps, they are 1000 gph, located down low, where they should be. If you feel you need higher capacity, as David seems to, add a third one for very little money, or swap one out for something bigger. My bilge stays bone dry. The plumbing on my boat is just fine, thanks David. As for drips into the engine compartment, for God sakes man, don't focus your hose at the joints in the covers! Just common sense. Yes, the engine compartment is tight - it's not a yacht with an engine room. He's right about the duct tape, though. It's meant to stop fumes from migrating. I pulled the tape from my boat and resealed the joints with $5 worth of caulking.
As for his sea trial, agreed this boat is somewhat tender, with a nine foot beam. But somehow, I manage to run mine hour after hour, in varied sea conditions and keep it dead level. No chine-walking and no shearing off. Perhaps Pascoe was unfamiliar with the correct, light-handed operation of trim tabs?
Any experienced, conscientious boater realizes that maintenance and upkeep is essential in any vessel. Like children and dogs, they require routine, loving care. Pascoe, in his tedious, sarcastic commentary, implies that a production boat should take care of itself. These are not the multi-million dollar yachts that the snobbish Mr. Pascoe preferred. These are serviceable, safe and enjoyable boats built for people like me. All things affordable are a compromise. If Sea Rays were so beneath the elevated gaze of Mr. Pascoe, perhaps he should have simply stayed off of them. RIP, David Pascoe but I will not miss you.
I own a 1993 Sea Ray 290, one of which he panned relentlessly in an old article, well read on the web. He remarked that the wood backing on upholstered panels were wet and rotting, that there was a high tide line in the bilge, that here were leaks at windows and on and on. I believe he found a seriously neglected boat and based his entire, biased opinion of thousands of Sea Rays on that meager evidence. Totally presumptuous and unprofessional. Pascoe did like to preach, as though he was the sole authority on all things boat related.
He commented on soft decks and hulls that deflected easily. On my boat, the deck is rock solid underfoot and my 240 pounds cannot cause the deflection he notes, at the rub rail. Where does he come up with this stuff? The cockpit upholstery on my boat is original and shows very little wear and no deterioration. The water pump is not low in the bilge, as he says but well up, under an mid-cabin inspection cover. The lower pump drains the shower. As for bilge pumps, they are 1000 gph, located down low, where they should be. If you feel you need higher capacity, as David seems to, add a third one for very little money, or swap one out for something bigger. My bilge stays bone dry. The plumbing on my boat is just fine, thanks David. As for drips into the engine compartment, for God sakes man, don't focus your hose at the joints in the covers! Just common sense. Yes, the engine compartment is tight - it's not a yacht with an engine room. He's right about the duct tape, though. It's meant to stop fumes from migrating. I pulled the tape from my boat and resealed the joints with $5 worth of caulking.
As for his sea trial, agreed this boat is somewhat tender, with a nine foot beam. But somehow, I manage to run mine hour after hour, in varied sea conditions and keep it dead level. No chine-walking and no shearing off. Perhaps Pascoe was unfamiliar with the correct, light-handed operation of trim tabs?
Any experienced, conscientious boater realizes that maintenance and upkeep is essential in any vessel. Like children and dogs, they require routine, loving care. Pascoe, in his tedious, sarcastic commentary, implies that a production boat should take care of itself. These are not the multi-million dollar yachts that the snobbish Mr. Pascoe preferred. These are serviceable, safe and enjoyable boats built for people like me. All things affordable are a compromise. If Sea Rays were so beneath the elevated gaze of Mr. Pascoe, perhaps he should have simply stayed off of them. RIP, David Pascoe but I will not miss you.
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Pirate Lady
Well-Known Member
Pascoe May he Rest In Peace. But he absolutely hated the 268 (86 - 89) which was probably the most popular boat SR ever built. So I’ll take the opinion of those thousands of us that loved our 268s.
390x
Member
My experience with many different brands of boats was entirely different than Pascoes. Personally, I think he was a bit of an ass.
Pascoe was just a guy with an opinion..... Take it for what it was worth and move on ... The next guy you listen to will have another.... In the end it's your decision.... Make the best one you can and live with it
Well, of course you are right. What galled me was Pascoe's arrogance in positioning himself as the ultimate authority in all things boating related. Most of us attempt to maintain balance and perspective to temper our views. Pascoe never did.
glenncal1
Active Member
Quint-don't know if you are still looking but I have a 380AC and really like the boat. Wish I had the 420AC for more room and bigger bed in the aft stateroom. I have 380 horizon gassers in mine and they move the boat fairly well, for a 420 I would want diesels (don't know if gas was an option in the 420). Having 2 stall showers is a big benefit too, especially if more than 2 for an overnight.
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,153
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Pascoe relocated to Destin FL from South Fla right about the time everyone got hot and bothered about cored construction. I talked to the folks at Sea Ray who built my boat, the 450DA (which has a cored hull). The production guys trotted me down the hall to their Customer Service people who handled all the complaints on Palm Coast products. They had 3 claims on 1995, 1996, 1997 and 1998 450DA's and they were all for cosmetic issues on new boats. They summarized by telling me you have what we call "The Icebreaker Hull...." don't ever put docking lights in the hull, only put transducers in the pad we put in the hull for thst purpose in the forward bilge sump and if you ever have an accident that exposes the core and requires a hull or deck repair, be sure the core is fully dry before it is sealed up again and you will never have a hull problem.
I realized that was one side (the pro-Sea Ray side) of the story and it was at a time when the press was full of "Sea Ray hulls are bad" so everyone in the industry was kind of "piling on". Since Mr. Pascoe was now living 35 miles away from us, I figured, "lets hear the other side of the story". I tried for 6 weeks to call, talk to, meet with, etc., the self professed expert in all things Sea Ray. Mr Pascoe may have been ill, busy, or whatever, but he never took a call, never even asked why I wanted to talk to him and just refused every attempt to meet or talk with me. I never did get to talk with him. He retired from Marine Surveying in 2012 and is now deceased ( Nov 2018).
I came to the conclusion that at some point Mr. Pascoe became more interested in being a published author and selling books and articles than continuing to crawl around in and under boats as a surveyor.
The inditement of Sea Ray's manufacturing methods and processes in his publications and articles was like kicking a defenseless, sleeping dog that he knew would always take the high road and would never bite back but could keep the name Pascoe in the marine press for years to come. And it has....here we are still talking about him long after his death.
Yes, as Blueone rightly noted: " a guy with an opinion." He seemed to love the attention his dramatic, exaggerated and negative writings attracted, especially from the otherwise uninformed and inexperienced. Sadly, few ever rebutted his rabid vendettas and he continued, unchecked.
Carver370
Well-Known Member
- Mar 30, 2007
- 1,928
- Boat Info
- 2000 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer - Diesel
- Engines
- T-3116 CAT - 350 HP
I had a Carver for almost 25 years. It was even the Pascoe dreaded 370 Motor Yacht that according to him should have failed miserably in anything over a remote control boat wake.
I sincerely loved that boat and it had many things done better than Sea Ray and others not so much. The largest problem I had was gelcoat quality. I kept up on it religiously but if you let it go, it will be a nightmare to make look good again.
We put around 1160 hours on it and lived on board from April-October every summer. I’d go out in stuff most people wouldn’t for a boat trip and I was always impressed with how she rode and handled. I couldn’t be paid to own a few of their models but the majority are pretty well thought out and have a decent hull design under them. If mine was diesel, I might still own it.
I’ve been through hundreds of Carver surveys and never have to worry about moisture intrusion in stringers, bulkheads, bottoms, or hull sides.
I walked a half a dozen customers away from a few 40’+ Sea Rays this year with some significant structural issues.
the moral of the story is, every brand has a few that get out and just won’t ever be right.
I sincerely loved that boat and it had many things done better than Sea Ray and others not so much. The largest problem I had was gelcoat quality. I kept up on it religiously but if you let it go, it will be a nightmare to make look good again.
We put around 1160 hours on it and lived on board from April-October every summer. I’d go out in stuff most people wouldn’t for a boat trip and I was always impressed with how she rode and handled. I couldn’t be paid to own a few of their models but the majority are pretty well thought out and have a decent hull design under them. If mine was diesel, I might still own it.
I’ve been through hundreds of Carver surveys and never have to worry about moisture intrusion in stringers, bulkheads, bottoms, or hull sides.
I walked a half a dozen customers away from a few 40’+ Sea Rays this year with some significant structural issues.
the moral of the story is, every brand has a few that get out and just won’t ever be right.
Carpediem44DB
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2015
- 3,230
- Boat Info
- 2000 Carver 506
2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge
- Engines
- Volvo TAMD 74 P
I really appreciate this thread as we are now boatless and leaning heavily towards a 2000 vintage 53 Voyager with Cummins 450s. I bought Pascoe's book last year and swore off searching for a Carver for a while based on his considered opinion but after touring several Carvers, reading countless articles and posts, I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect boat so one needs to buy the best compromise for one's intended use. When we retire and have limitless time to care for a boat I will sell the Carver and probably buy a mid ninties Tolley 61 or Hatteras but for a logical next boat for bay and delta cruising with an occasional trip down the coast to Monterey the Voyager seems like a perfect next step.
Carpe Diem
Carpe Diem