In contract on 2002 460DA

Chief Ed

Chief Ed

Active Member
Jul 19, 2020
168
So Cal
Boat Info
2006 44 Sundancer
Engines
Cummins QSC500
Hi all,

Been reading this site for a few years. Finally decided to sign up and sponsor. Gotten well over my fee paid worth of knowledge from all of you...

The admiral and I have been thinking about upgrading from our gas 330DA into something bigger with diesel for a while now. We found a beautiful 2002 460DA with 450 Diamonds and made an agreement with the seller and got an accepted offer on our 330 all in the same day!

The 460 only has 290 hours on the mains. We just got the oil samples back, however. The port motor was ‘yellow’ due to high Aluminum content. It has 22ppm whereas the starboard motor has 10. According to the seller, the oil was changed last October and has about 30 hours on it.

How much of a concern is this? They both started up cold perfectly and idle fine with no smoke. Our sea-trial/survey is set for this Thursday. Obviously we’ll learn more then, but I wonder if the high aluminum in the sample is such that we should run away and save the $ we’d be spending for the survey.

On another note, our 330 had it’s sea-trial/survey yesterday and passed beautifully. It’ll likely close this week. Great not having to be ‘two-boat owners’, but we don’t want to be boatless in the middle of the summer!

Thanks in advance for your opinions...
 
Aluminum is usually associated with a piston or turbocharger. Are you having a Cummins expert do the engine survey?
 
Thanks for that. Yes, the local Cummins dealer is doing the engine survey.

He is concerned about sample results. He is recommending flush the oil, then changing it and the filter. He’ll cut open the current filter and look for debris. Then the seller needs to put 10+ under-load hours on the engines and re-sample the oil. Haven’t heard back from the seller yet if he’s OK to do this.

I don’t anything about oil samples myself, but after a lot of research on sbmar.com it’s seems as though 22ppm is pretty low. Others on that site have had samples come back with 200ppm. Tony himself replied to my post there and said the sea-trial is far more important than a random oil sample.
 
Tony is the man to listen to. He's forgotten more than most know about those motors. Best of luck!
 
I wouldn’t be super concerned about the oil samples but in full transparency 290 hours is so few I would be significantly concerned about marine age of an engine and the lack of maintaince. Is this boat salt or fresh water?
 
Salt water. Engine room looks to be well taken care of. Obviously, the low hours arena concern.

Sea-trial with Cummins dealer is this Thursday. I guess we’ll learn more then. I would think the marine age factors should present themselves then...
 
Can you post the full report?

At under a 300 hours that engine is still breaking in. That's really not high AL in my eyes. Could be from cold starts, improper oil, additives that aren't necessary, over propped, etc. Aluminum could be pistons or bearings.

Your plan sound reasonable to retest.
 
The aftercoolers will need to be serviced and the cores removed cleaned and lubed. I would factor this in to the price and know that aftercoolers in these engines are about 3200.00 each. Ask the seller for any maintance logs and if it hasn’t been done figure that into your offer. Systems like the heads will most likely have to be serviced along with fresh water pumps, batteries, complete engine and generator services including hoses belts clamps tensioner... etc.

I think you will love the boat but just want you to figure you will have quite a bit of work to do since the systems haven’t been used much at all. Congrats on finding your new to you boat!

Josh
 
Thanks for the help, fellas. Here are the two reports (both motors). I’m definitely aware of the aftercoolers and their cost. It’s possible looking at the engine room, that the seller already did those. That would be rather easy to confirm on the sea-trial, no?

As far as the other work, the Cummins tech that is doing the engine survey is a personal ‘acquaintance’ of mine. I’m hopeful that’ll he’ll go the extra mile on checking everything he can on Thursday. He is much more concerned about the AL content than Tony at sbmar is, however.

Let me know your thoughts on these...



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By the way, at the dock (when the oil samples were taken) both motors and the gen were very cold and started right up, no smoke, and idled perfectly. I’m hoping that the seller already took care of some of these items to get her ready for sale. He’s not been very communicative thus far, but don’t know if that’s him or his broker...
 
I see your iron level is about double on the suspect engine what your reading is on your other engine. Could be an indication of liner wear. Silicon is about equal which would be an indication of dirt possibly through lack of air filter cleaning. So that theory is out. It's really hard to give a yes/no without true oilanalysis history trending. This is just one point in time. I'd still advocate running oil again and retesting.
 
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One more thought... If it's truly piston/liner wear, that should be visible using a borescope. You could work that into the deal to give you piece of mind.
 
Roger that. Thanks, Doug.

Here are a couple of photos of the engines. It looks like the aftercooler has been recently opened up. Also several of the hoses/clamps are new and the alternator on Starboard side looks new. Fingers crossed...

Thanks again for all of your help!

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No real signs of the engine running hot either from the pics. Granted they could be covered in paint, but doesn't appear to be touched up in a while.
 
You know I would probably take another oil sample and send it to black stone. You would have another data point and verify your findings. I also like their opinions.
 
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