Trip Marina Breaker

Isolation transformer will completely isolate the boat from any shore side power and grounding
But they tend to be big heavy and pricey
For larger boats with space often used
Can be on the dock if marina doesn’t object
 
I stand corrected on the isolator
I was thinking neighbor boat with a DC problem
 
bbwhitejr said:
Yes, three prong plug....it used to work fine with a GFCI first 2 years or so....last 2-3 years trips it after coming on in about 30 sec-1 min...

Bennett
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if the grill has open heating wire coil clean any grease and carbon build up off the ceramic insulators

If a closed metallic covered element look fo same near the connections entering
Also the internal insulation breaks down from the heat over time replacing the elements may be the only cure

it only takes a small leakage to be a problem thats the pain of finding ground faults
 
ttmott said:
Sure - my boat has a large isolation transformer but it doesn't resolve the issue that exists on the boat. That is you have current leakage either to the ground conductor or leakage to the boat's bonding system and to the water. You really need to find the issue and correct it; just because it trips a 30 milliamp ground fault safety device doesn't mean your problem is not much more significant and a safety hazard. FYI your galvanic isolator does not have anything to do with a ground fault situation; all that device does is prevent low level current (cathodic) from passing to the marina's ground system and thus prevent the metals in the water from disappearing.
A couple of things to look at -
Disassemble that shorepower receptacle, clean it, strip back the wires, and reassemble with di-electric grease.
Make sure the boat's main circuit breaker is switching both the neutral conductors as well as the hot's. As a point of information your generator bonds the boat's ground, bonding system, and neutral so it is necessary to switch the neutral off that bond when on shorepower.
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Ok. Thanks. I'll follow your suggestions and will try to power up line #1.
 
ttmott said:
Sure - my boat has a large isolation transformer but it doesn't resolve the issue that exists on the boat. That is you have current leakage either to the ground conductor or leakage to the boat's bonding system and to the water. You really need to find the issue and correct it; just because it trips a 30 milliamp ground fault safety device doesn't mean your problem is not much more significant and a safety hazard. FYI your galvanic isolator does not have anything to do with a ground fault situation; all that device does is prevent low level current (cathodic) from passing to the marina's ground system and thus prevent the metals in the water from disappearing.
A couple of things to look at -
Disassemble that shorepower receptacle, clean it, strip back the wires, and reassemble with di-electric grease.
Make sure the boat's main circuit breaker is switching both the neutral conductors as well as the hot's. As a point of information your generator bonds the boat's ground, bonding system, and neutral so it is necessary to switch the neutral off that bond when on shorepower.
Click to expand...
I found the problem. I disassembled the line #1 receptacle and found the ground wire was in the neutral slot and neutral wire in ground slot. I then examined the connections in line #2 receptacle; all wires were properly connected. I made the corrections in line #1 and powered up. No more marina trip. What puzzles me is how it worked for the last two years. Thanks so much for your help.
 
It may have worked for the last two years because the power pedastal you were connected to did not have a GFCI. That happened to me when I moved to a different marina, one with GFCI's. I began tripping the pedastal as soon as I plugged in my power cord. At first I was in denial, but I kept tracing the problem and found the source to be my old abandoned water heater.
 
Sindbad said:
I found the problem. I disassembled the line #1 receptacle and found the ground wire was in the neutral slot and neutral wire in ground slot. I then examined the connections in line #2 receptacle; all wires were properly connected. I made the corrections in line #1 and powered up. No more marina trip. What puzzles me is how it worked for the last two years. Thanks so much for your help.
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Excellent! Fixed a very hazardous problem. The reason it "worked" is because, just like your house power meter base, the marina's utility power supply ties both the ground and neutral at the service entrance and also to a copper rod driven into the earth. Just like your generator which is considered a power source the neutral, ground, and bonding are all tied together; the utility does the same at the service entrance. So all of the return current with those switched wires was on the ground wire rather than neutral returning to the same bonding at the service entrance. The hazard is the ground connects all metallic components like boxes, piping, and anything metal on the boat and if you are a better conductor path it will pass through you and that is a problem.....
 
Sindbad said:
I found the problem. I disassembled the line #1 receptacle and found the ground wire was in the neutral slot and neutral wire in ground slot. I then examined the connections in line #2 receptacle; all wires were properly connected. I made the corrections in line #1 and powered up. No more marina trip. What puzzles me is how it worked for the last two years. Thanks so much for your help.
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Glad you got to the bottom of it, an all to common problem.
I'm concerned that this is what the "special pigtails" that the Leland Harbor marina used by SBW1 is doing back on post #10.
Solves the complaints, but doesnt do anything for the boat owner when they visit the next marina.
 
hughespat57 said:
Glad you got to the bottom of it, an all to common problem.
I'm concerned that this is what the "special pigtails" that the Leland Harbor marina used by SBW1 is doing back on post #10.
Solves the complaints, but doesnt do anything for the boat owner when they visit the next marina.
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I don't understand the "special pigtail" either.... You can't fool a ground fault protected circuit unless an isolation transformer is used. But then why would anyone want to bypass or render useless an electrical safety device?
 
IMG_1955.JPG
ttmott said:
I don't understand the "special pigtail" either.... You can't fool a ground fault protected circuit unless an isolation transformer is used. But then why would anyone want to bypass or render useless an electrical safety device?
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There did not appear to be anything special about the pig tail. Not sure where "special" came from. They are probably still chained to the pedestals if someone is in Leland reads this, take a pic and post it.
 
Well “special” in that they did something inside such as flip the neutral and ground then such a pigtail would have solved this issue without rewiring the boats inlet.
 
hughespat57 said:
Well “special” in that they did something inside such as flip the neutral and ground then such a pigtail would have solved this issue without rewiring the boats inlet.
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It couldn't have "solved this issue". If it was configured in such a way as you describe not only did the hazard on the boat still exist but that pigtail would be a violation to NFPA 70, could not be UL or CE listed, and violation to just about every building and electrical safety code in the US and Canada. Also a configured adapter like that could not account for current leakage into the water through the boat's bonding and grounding system. It's unreasonable a marina would allow such a configuration.
The premise of Ground Fault Interrupters is that they measure current on both the "Hot" conductor and on the "Neutral" conductor and will interrupt the circuit if the current is not the same on both. Current leaking (a "fault") to other conductors, to the water around the boat, through people, or anywhere else besides those two conductors will open the circuit. @sbw1 hopefully will get an answer exactly that the device is....
 
I agree completely with your explanation of the GFI current flow. And agree its not a proper fix.
But if neutral and ground are reversed on the boat, and then you reverse neutral and ground at the pigtail.
You have corrected the current flow, the cord is using the wrong color wire for the neutral now green and the ground now white

think of it this way
pedestal***************pigtail****************cord*************************boat (miswired socket neutral & ground reversed)
hot black --------->>-------black----------->>--------black---------------------------->> black Hot
neutral white ---->>-------white---\ /------>>---------white--------------------------->> white Ground
ground green ---->>-----green----/ \------>>---------green--------------------------->> green Neutral
****************reverse white & ground**********************************************
I've seen marinas (and other businesses) do some pretty stupid quick and dirty things to stop customer complaints
In this case two wrongs make it "right"
 
hughespat57 said:
I agree completely with your explanation of the GFI current flow. And agree its not a proper fix.
But if neutral and ground are reversed on the boat, and then you reverse neutral and ground at the pigtail.
You have corrected the current flow, the cord is using the wrong color wire for the neutral now green and the ground now white

think of it this way
pedestal***************pigtail****************cord*************************boat (miswired socket neutral & ground reversed)
hot black --------->>-------black----------->>--------black---------------------------->> black Hot
neutral white ---->>-------white---\ /------>>---------white--------------------------->> white Ground
ground green ---->>-----green----/ \------>>---------green--------------------------->> green Neutral
****************reverse white & ground**********************************************
I've seen marinas (and other businesses) do some pretty stupid quick and dirty things to stop customer complaints
In this case two wrongs make it "right"
Click to expand...
Yup - but in this scenario the boat's grounding and bonding is the neutral and consequently current will flow through the running gear to the water around the boat and not necessarily be balanced through the reversed adapter back on the marina's neutral conductor.
 
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