Any Seatalk Gurus out there?

Steve S

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2007
3,101
Northern IL.
Boat Info
2000 400 Sedan Bridge with twin CAT 3116's

2000 340 Sundancer - SOLD!
210 Monaco 1987 - SOLD!
Engines
Twin Caterpillar 3116's 350 HP straight drives
I have a combination of Raymarine items on my 400DB. Previously had an issue with my E140W not communicating with my RayPilot650. This turned out to be a disconnected cable. Connected the cable and everything worked fine.

The system has an E140W chartplotter and GPS via SeatalkNG and a Seatalk1 D244 bus also connected to the SeatalkNG E22158 converter. On the Seatalk1 D244 bus is the RayPilot650, Raydata and Ray240 VHF.

Had a strange occurrence happen while out on a cruise. I had programmed in a route to test the system. Everything was working fine. I put the system on "Standby" via the E140W, cruised through a nearby harbor, returned to open water, engaged the autopilot again, it started tracking and then lost communication with E140W chart plotter.

Everything on the Seatalk1 D244 bus was not communicating with the SeatalkNG E22158 for Nav data. The Seatalk1 bus was essentially dead. Checked and reseated all cables and tried restarting all the items unsuccessfully. I do not have an "Accessory" switch to power my electronics. So I finally, simply killed the 12v power at the battery main switch, restored power and the Seatalk1 bus came back to life.

Very strange as the SeatalkNG E22158 had power and the E140W and the GPS was functional and the Seatalk1 D244 would normally get data from it but was dead.

Any thoughts?
 
Steve - got your message. And @carterchapman, as usual you are most gracious but mostly to a school of hard knocks....

Essentially you are connecting and converting the Seatalk autopilot and VHF to SeatalkNG through the Raymarine converter. Then all connected as NG, one connection to the E120W right? And the Seatalk items are daisy chained then connected using an adapter cable to the converter.... I was unaware the VHF was Seatalk compatible but thought rather NMEA0183. I would recommend that you go through the diagnostic page on the E120 if the history is still there and see when the comm was lost. You never lost the NG data (GPS) right?
My gut feeling is there is a conflict in the data providers on the Seatalk data bus and it quit communicating - my first thought is the VHF is corrupting.
 
Steve - got your message. And @carterchapman, as usual you are most gracious but mostly to a school of hard knocks....

Essentially you are connecting and converting the Seatalk autopilot and VHF to SeatalkNG through the Raymarine converter. Then all connected as NG, one connection to the E140W right?
That is correct. The original issue was the E140W and the autopilot was not communicating. Found out the cable from the course computer to the D244 three port Seatalk junction block was disconnected.
upload_2020-8-5_16-23-32.png


And the Seatalk items are daisy chained then connected using an adapter cable to the converter....
Not daisy chained but using a D244 three Seatalk connector block. Same difference.

I was unaware the VHF was Seatalk compatible but thought rather NMEA0183.
See diagram below. The VHF was previously connected to the D244 and then to the NG network and worked fine.
upload_2020-8-5_16-18-26.png


I would recommend that you go through the diagnostic page on the E140W if the history is still there and see when the comm was lost. You never lost the NG data (GPS) right?
Correct - I never lost NG data (GPS) on the E140W. I will see about running the diagnostics on the E140W.

My gut feeling is there is a conflict in the data providers on the Seatalk data bus and it quit communicating - my first thought is the VHF is corrupting.

See my comments above.
 
When it's all working do you see GPS Coord's on the VHF?
 
When it's all working do you see GPS Coord's on the VHF?
Yes, I had GPS Coord's prior to investigating the autopilot communication issue and after the autopilot was connected. However, during my test cruise I lost all Seatalk1 communication - VHF Coord's and the E140W didn't see the autopilot.
 
This appears to apply exactly how you are set up https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=366
Assuming the MFD has the latest SW load - First I'd work to recreate the problem. Then disconnect the VHF and see if you can recreate the problem again.
The reason I'm concerned about the VHF is the Seatalk ng Converter is not designed to handle DSC/DSE polling and is causing a conflict between the VHF and MFD.
 
This appears to apply exactly how you are set up https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=366
Assuming the MFD has the latest SW load - First I'd work to recreate the problem. Then disconnect the VHF and see if you can recreate the problem again.
The reason I'm concerned about the VHF is the Seatalk ng Converter is not designed to handle DSC/DSE polling and is causing a conflict between the VHF and MFD.

Looking at the top drawing, the differences are as follows:

The Ray240 VHF is connected to the Seatalk D244 (not shown at all). This was connected like this when I bought the boat in 2018. Worked fine. You can see the D244 below.

To the right is the course computer. Not shown is hidden cable from the CC that I connected to the D244 in the top spot.

I have two E22158 daisy chained blue to blue with a blue backbone cable. The GPS is connected to the yellow connector.

Left side yellow is the D244. Top blue is backbone to right E22158.

Right top is backbone to Left E22158. Top white is power. Yellow is GPS. Bottom white is E140W.
82416285-9520-4D79-AD64-2F94E44250A5.png
 
Looking at the top drawing, the differences are as follows:

The Ray240 VHF is connected to the Seatalk D244 (not shown at all). This was connected like this when I bought the boat in 2018. Worked fine. You can see the D244 below.

To the right is the course computer. Not shown is hidden cable from the CC that I connected to the D244 in the top spot.

I have two E22158 daisy chained blue to blue with a blue backbone cable. The GPS is connected to the yellow connector.

Left side yellow is the D244. Top blue is backbone to right E22158.

Right top is backbone to Left E22158. Top white is power. Yellow is GPS. Bottom white is E140W.View attachment 89749
I had thought the GPS was NG / NMEA 2000.... If so I don't believe it can be connected to the yellow converter connection.
 
Ok. I can try moving it to a white connector.

Another thought. I understand that you cannot have two power sources on a Seatalk or SeatalkNG network. The E22158 has power.

The course computer is connected to the Seatalk1 network (Connected to the E22158) and also to the autopilot control head.

Two Seatalk ports on the course computer One of the ports also has the yellow wire and ground connected to a cable to my Tridata (Raydata) unit. The red (power) connects to a separate cable that runs to a fuse block for power. Not sure of sharing the ground would cause issues. Thinking I can pull that cable out of the Raydata and daisy chain it to the autopilot head correctly.
 
Ok. I can try moving it to a white connector.
Another thought. I understand that you cannot have two power sources on a Seatalk or SeatalkNG network. The E22158 has power.
The course computer is connected to the Seatalk1 network (Connected to the E22158) and also to the autopilot control head.
Two Seatalk ports on the course computer One of the ports also has the yellow wire and ground connected to a cable to my Tridata (Raydata) unit. The red (power) connects to a separate cable that runs to a fuse block for power. Not sure of sharing the ground would cause issues. Thinking I can pull that cable out of the Raydata and daisy chain it to the autopilot head correctly.

It appears the Raydata which is getting it's data from the course computer is getting it's +12V from another source and not the course computer - very odd, I would be worried about a ground loop issue. Probably best to reconnect the red wire to the red Seatalk1 terminal on the course computer. If it doesn't power up the Raydata then look to see if the fuse is blown on the course computer for that Seatalk connection.
Correct - you should not have multiple power sources on a network. The black / red NG wire is correct, in that it powers the NG network. Hopefully, but I'm not sure, the E22158 isolates power between the Seatalk and SeatalkNG networks.
So on the Seatalk 1 cable pin 1 is +12V, pin 2 is shield/ground, and pin 3 is data. See if Pin 1 is getting power from the NG converter and/or from the Autopilot course computer and if both disconnect the red wire from the course computer. Then power up and make sure the ST head unit powers up.
Regardless, I still think the VHF is causing a data error on the network...

Oh as an Edit - make sure that if all the +12V are from a single buss source (they should be) that all of the -12V are from the same ground buss. The last thing you would need is a differential voltage in two different grounds and messing things up.
 
I threw this together thinking a better config and how power should be configured. Second pic only works if NG provides power to ST but technically it is the best for Autopilot comm with the E120W
ST - STNG configuration.jpg
ST - STNG configuration1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ok, I tried moving the GPS antenna to a white port. Doesn’t work... no GPS data. Put it back in and got GPS data back. So I would need to daisy chain another E22158 to get another Seatalk1 yellow port for the VHF.
 
Ok, I tried moving the GPS antenna to a white port. Doesn’t work... no GPS data. Put it back in and got GPS data back. So I would need to daisy chain another E22158 to get another Seatalk1 yellow port for the VHF.
We know it's not a Raystar 130 or later GPS receiver (SeatalkNG) so looks to be a Raystar 125. the Raystar 125 is NMEA 0183 or Seatalk1.
Plan B - Daisy chain the VHF to the Raydata then Raydata to the SmartPilot head and the SmartPilot head to one of the Seatalk1 ports on the Course Computer and there connect the Seatalk1 cable red wire so the Ray data, and head get power. Then the other open Seatalk1 port on the Course Computer to the yellow Seatalk1 on the converter but do not connect that cable's red wire to the course computer. That leaves the Raystar GPS which remains connected to the other open yellow Seatalk1 port on the second converter. What we now know is the yellow port on the converter powers whatever is connected to it (it is powered through the NG power cable) as it powers the GPS Raystar receiver and the reason we do not connect the red wire at the course computer.
So that should clean up the power situation and all of the instruments will share data. This scenario eliminates the
D244 expander. Try this.

BTW make sure the Raystar wiring is:
upload_2020-8-9_14-36-38.png
 

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