Westerbeke 4.5 BCGB Issues, any advice?

J

Jambrin

Member
Oct 25, 2013
36
Kentucky
Boat Info
2002 340 Sundancer
Engines
MX 6.2 MPI Hurth 630 V-drive
2002 340 Sundancer w/Westerbeke 4.5 BCGB <-- ~1200 hours.

Generator runs normally (as it has done the last 7 years that I've owned it) and then suddenly just shuts down. It will run 4, 5, 6 hours at a time, then die and won't restart. The next weekend I come down to the boat it does the same thing again...day 1 runs 4 hours no problem. Day 2 it runs 6 hours and then suddenly dies and won't restart (usually in the middle of the night like 2am). When it dies/shuts down it doesn't sputter or anything, it's like someone hit the run switch and turned it off.

This has happened 3 times so far this season, and when you try to restart it will start and run for about 5 seconds and then immediately shut down again but it will only do this 1 time per weekend. For instance, it will die, I will try to restart, crank several times, no firing no nothing. Then wait 2 hours. Try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, fires right up and runs for 5 seconds and shuts down, try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, nothing, wait until next day, try again, nothing, wait until next weekend, tray again fires right up and runs 4 hours. You kinda get the picture.

What I have done so far to troubleshoot:
  1. In June replaced cap & rotor (for the 1st time ever) and spark plugs because it died and wouldn't restart for the first time and when I spark tested I found 1 of the 3 cylinders was not getting spark. The contacts in the cap looked pretty worn and a little bit corroded so it was not surprising. This fixed the issue. It then ran fine for about a month or 50 hours total.
  2. New ignition coil in July. When replacing cap & rotor & plugs I noticed the spark looked a little weak on my spark tester so I figured this should probably be replaced once it started acting up again. I did not use the Westerbeke OEM part for $430 but instead used a very similar Delphi GN10170 general purpose coil from Amazon for $20. Works fine but seems it did not fix the issue.
  3. Checked the carb fuel filter and found to be in good condition. I had replaced this just last season (2019) with the OEM WB part so I expected it to be good.
  4. Disconnected the fuel line into the carb and hit the ON/preheat switch. The fuel pump is pumping plenty of fuel out of the line.
  5. Measured battery voltage to the fuel cut-off solenoid as good when cranking. Removed the solenoid and tested with wires to B+ and GND, the solenoid actuated. Cleaned it with carb cleaner.
  6. Plugged the hole where the fuel cut-off solenoid goes and the generator started and ran although very rich (understandably). I thought wow maybe it's bad but when I put it back in the generator also started and ran several hours making me think the fuel cut-off solenoid is OK. Also the local WB service shop near Lake Cumberland (Unlimited Marine) told me they have never encountered a bad/failed fuel cut-off solenoid and therefore don't stock that part.
  7. Tested the K1 and K2 relays. They actuated and the coil resistance is in range (86 Ohms for one and 87 Ohms for the other), so these should be good.
  8. Checked oil level and found to be OK.
  9. Raw water pump impeller is OK (new last season, pumps water just fine when the generator is running).
I don't think it's any of the safety shutdown switches. My understanding is these are bypassed when holding the ON/preheat switch to allow the generator to start anyway, so with it not even starting, even after cooled down, I think the safety switches are OK.

My only guess at this point is maybe the fuel cut-off solenoid is intermittent. Obviously something is intermittent causing this to happen, I just can't figure out what it is.

If you've hung on and read this entire thread, I'd appreciate if you have any educated guesses as to what could be causing the trouble, or if you have any idea of the typical things that fail on a 18 yo ~1200 hr 4.5 BCGB 3-cyl Mitsubishi engine that maybe I haven't checked yet.

Thanks,
Brian
 
The electric fuel pumps are known to overheat and shut down, cool off and restart, till overheat again. The pumps are available at NAPA pretty cheap. Also we had similar symptoms on our diesel Westerbeke. Turned our heat exchanger was clogged, looked like plenty of flow out the exhaust, but I guess not enough. We chased that for a long time.
 
bahamabreisus said:
The electric fuel pumps are known to overheat and shut down, cool off and restart, till overheat again. The pumps are available at NAPA pretty cheap. Also we had similar symptoms on our diesel Westerbeke. Turned our heat exchanger was clogged, looked like plenty of flow out the exhaust, but I guess not enough. We chased that for a long time.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Interesting about the fuel pump. At first I thought it was the fuel pump but when I disconnected the line it pumped fuel OK, but that was after it had cooled off. Sounds like next time it quits I need to check the fuel again immediately while it's still hot.

Any idea what PN I should look up at Napa.com for the fuel pump?

Thanks,
Brian
 
Have you checked the oil in your govenor? It too will shut the unit down.

On our old Westerbekes the govenor is oil cooled. They get fussy when the oil level is below 2oz.
 
Last edited:
dwna1a said:
Have you checked the oil in your govenor? It too will shut the unit down.

On our old Westerbekes the govenor is oil cooled. They get fussy when the oil level is below 2oz.
Click to expand...

I have not checked that, but I changed it last year at the end of the season when I winterized. I will check it next time I go to the boat. Thanks!
 
+1 on the fuel pump. same issue with a diesel Next-Gen I have. Replaced the pump even though the old one made noise. It was getting hot and not pumping good. I have run the gen 400 hours in the last month or so and all good.
 
I wanted to add something, I talked with a owner last night he has the same genset and was having the same issue. He suggested three things to check
1st the oil in the governor
2nd Be VERY sure you placed the gaskets in the correct order when you replaced the fuel separater filter. Also be sure you removed all of the old gaskets.
3rd is the fuel pump itself.

IF the gaskets were placed in the incorrect places the filter will fill as normal but will allow air to enter the system. His took hours before it would shut down and then not restart until the system had time to refill its self. Cranking removed the air in the lines and refilled the carb.

Please let us know how it goes
 
dwna1a said:
I wanted to add something, I talked with a owner last night he has the same genset and was having the same issue. He suggested three things to check
1st the oil in the governor
2nd Be VERY sure you placed the gaskets in the correct order when you replaced the fuel separater filter. Also be sure you removed all of the old gaskets.
3rd is the fuel pump itself.

IF the gaskets were placed in the incorrect places the filter will fill as normal but will allow air to enter the system. His took hours before it would shut down and then not restart until the system had time to refill its self. Cranking removed the air in the lines and refilled the carb.

Please let us know how it goes
Click to expand...

Awesome. I will check the fuel separator filter in addition to the governor oil. It's one of those spin on types, like a typical oil filter, so it only has the 1 gasket I think. Come to think of it I replaced all of my fuel separator filters on 6/12/20 and my problems began shortly afterwards. Will let you know what I find.

FYI - I contacted Facet, they said WB fuel pump PN 043124 was superseded by PN 039273 which is Facet PN 40176. That looks to be the same or similar pump without the fittings and wire terminal on it, which I think I can transfer the fittings from the old pump and crimp on a spade terminal if I end up replacing the fuel pump.
 
I’m 99% sure it’s the fuel pump. Fuel filter was OK. Govenor oil was OK (but is fresh now!). When I got to the boat today the generator would not start. There was no fuel in the carb even after several cranking attempts and holding the ON/preheat button for extended periods. I could finally get the pump to work somewhat by holding down the ON/preheat enough to fill the bowl (about 1 minute once it sounded like it was actually pumping). It finally started and ran about 5 minutes with no load after I got the pump semi working.

I’m going to order the Facet pump and replace it. Fingers crossed it solves the problem for good. Will report back once completed.
 
I have (maybe) the same issue, just recently started. It would run anywhere from 5 minutes to two hours and then just quit and not start until everything was cold.... not just the Genny, but the entire bilge had to be cold.

Maybe it's just coincidental, but the observed symptom was that it would start when the engine room was cold, and would NOT start if the main engines were running for any period of time. And if I started the main engines after the genny, the genny would quit after some period of time..... sooner if I didn't run the bilge fan.

Then it devolved.. it would start and run if cold and ONLY if I keep holding the START/PREHEAT button.

And now it even dies after that.
 
It was the fuel pump. Definitely. The new one sounds so much better when you hit the ON switch. I changed it this weekend so time will tell but it's starting and running great so far. What a PITA to change it though. I hope this replacement works for a long time because I don't want to ever have to change it again.
 
Awesome. You should be good to go. Now go have fun, you earned it!
 
Jambrin said:
2002 340 Sundancer w/Westerbeke 4.5 BCGB <-- ~1200 hours.

Generator runs normally (as it has done the last 7 years that I've owned it) and then suddenly just shuts down. It will run 4, 5, 6 hours at a time, then die and won't restart. The next weekend I come down to the boat it does the same thing again...day 1 runs 4 hours no problem. Day 2 it runs 6 hours and then suddenly dies and won't restart (usually in the middle of the night like 2am). When it dies/shuts down it doesn't sputter or anything, it's like someone hit the run switch and turned it off.

This has happened 3 times so far this season, and when you try to restart it will start and run for about 5 seconds and then immediately shut down again but it will only do this 1 time per weekend. For instance, it will die, I will try to restart, crank several times, no firing no nothing. Then wait 2 hours. Try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, fires right up and runs for 5 seconds and shuts down, try again, nothing, wait 5 minutes, try again, nothing, wait until next day, try again, nothing, wait until next weekend, tray again fires right up and runs 4 hours. You kinda get the picture.

What I have done so far to troubleshoot:
  1. In June replaced cap & rotor (for the 1st time ever) and spark plugs because it died and wouldn't restart for the first time and when I spark tested I found 1 of the 3 cylinders was not getting spark. The contacts in the cap looked pretty worn and a little bit corroded so it was not surprising. This fixed the issue. It then ran fine for about a month or 50 hours total.
  2. New ignition coil in July. When replacing cap & rotor & plugs I noticed the spark looked a little weak on my spark tester so I figured this should probably be replaced once it started acting up again. I did not use the Westerbeke OEM part for $430 but instead used a very similar Delphi GN10170 general purpose coil from Amazon for $20. Works fine but seems it did not fix the issue.
  3. Checked the carb fuel filter and found to be in good condition. I had replaced this just last season (2019) with the OEM WB part so I expected it to be good.
  4. Disconnected the fuel line into the carb and hit the ON/preheat switch. The fuel pump is pumping plenty of fuel out of the line.
  5. Measured battery voltage to the fuel cut-off solenoid as good when cranking. Removed the solenoid and tested with wires to B+ and GND, the solenoid actuated. Cleaned it with carb cleaner.
  6. Plugged the hole where the fuel cut-off solenoid goes and the generator started and ran although very rich (understandably). I thought wow maybe it's bad but when I put it back in the generator also started and ran several hours making me think the fuel cut-off solenoid is OK. Also the local WB service shop near Lake Cumberland (Unlimited Marine) told me they have never encountered a bad/failed fuel cut-off solenoid and therefore don't stock that part.
  7. Tested the K1 and K2 relays. They actuated and the coil resistance is in range (86 Ohms for one and 87 Ohms for the other), so these should be good.
  8. Checked oil level and found to be OK.
  9. Raw water pump impeller is OK (new last season, pumps water just fine when the generator is running).
I don't think it's any of the safety shutdown switches. My understanding is these are bypassed when holding the ON/preheat switch to allow the generator to start anyway, so with it not even starting, even after cooled down, I think the safety switches are OK.

My only guess at this point is maybe the fuel cut-off solenoid is intermittent. Obviously something is intermittent causing this to happen, I just can't figure out what it is.

If you've hung on and read this entire thread, I'd appreciate if you have any educated guesses as to what could be causing the trouble, or if you have any idea of the typical things that fail on a 18 yo ~1200 hr 4.5 BCGB 3-cyl Mitsubishi engine that maybe I haven't checked yet.

Thanks,
Brian
Click to expand...
I see you do your work and I’m in the same situation. I’m dealing with the same scenario. And trying to check my plugs, I can’t get on them. Is there a trick? Appreciate your help in advance
Thank you
Larry
 
Larry Connally said:
I see you do your work and I’m in the same situation. I’m dealing with the same scenario. And trying to check my plugs, I can’t get on them. Is there a trick? Appreciate your help in advance
Thank you
Larry
Click to expand...

I had to use an extension and swivel to get on the spark plugs. Seems impossible at first but it can be done. You have to position the swivel so that the spark plug socket angles towards the spark plug. The problem I had was the swivel would move too easily, meaning I would set the swivel in position to angle the socket towards the spark plug and then by the time I got it close to the spark plug it would move from the weight of the socket pulling down on it, changing the angle and not allowing the socket to go on the plug. If you could get a swivel that has some resistance to it (not sure that exists) or maybe put some putty or something on the swivel to make it hold the angle it would help. I didn’t have anything with me so I just used my other hand to hold the swivel position/angle as best I could. It took multiple attempts per plug. It wasn’t too terrible though since there are only 3 plugs.

Some things that helped me figure out the correct angle is using a mirror, feeling around with my fingers (difficult because tight space) and using an endoscope. I have an inexpensive endoscope that I bought from Amazon a couple of years ago. It has an app on my phone so you can see the video and it’s been helpful to observe some tight or inaccessible spaces a few times while working on the boat.

Good luck,
Brian
 
Jambrin said:
It was the fuel pump. Definitely. The new one sounds so much better when you hit the ON switch. I changed it this weekend so time will tell but it's starting and running great so far. What a PITA to change it though. I hope this replacement works for a long time because I don't want to ever have to change it again.
Click to expand...
Was your fuel pump success with the facet part number from Napa? I tried ordering from westerbeke but they are 3 weeks out
Thanks again for your help
Larry
 
Larry Connally said:
Was your fuel pump success with the facet part number from Napa? I tried ordering from westerbeke but they are 3 weeks out
Thanks again for your help
Larry
Click to expand...

I ordered Facet P/N 40176 from Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies. Took about a week for delivery.

Note: if you go this route you will have to transfer the NPT fittings from the old pump to the new pump (make sure you have pipe thread sealant that can stand up to gasoline), and you will have to crimp an electrical terminal onto the wire of the pump. Not difficult to do but not 100% plug & play, but it will save you at least $100.
 
Jambrin said:
I ordered Facet P/N 40176 from Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies. Took about a week for delivery.

Note: if you go this route you will have to transfer the NPT fittings from the old pump to the new pump (make sure you have pipe thread sealant that can stand up to gasoline), and you will have to crimp an electrical terminal onto the wire of the pump. Not difficult to do but not 100% plug & play, but it will save you at least $100.
Click to expand...
Ok. Thank you. I looked up those Napa numbers that someone else had posted and it wasn’t matching up to that facet part number so I wanted to see what you found.
Again, thank you for your help
 
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