Change My Mind. The Older Tech Boats Are Better...

I know the tow boat ( Ski) builders are driving new technology and all I see is the end user millennial screaming about too many sensors watching sensors..... folks losing entire boating seasons with tech issues etc,,,,

i have to SR 88 outboard Laguna that was loaded with ridiculous wiring systems in 1988,, I took out 100 lbs of wiring and guages... run a simple dash with Tach, volt and fuel... Boat is fine now

the new to us 410 has some electrical demons that I will work thru with the onboard monitoring system that does not work and soon to be removed if possible...

its life but I do think Boating has jumped the shark
 
I will bet that half of the cars in the United States are driving around with the check engine light on. What was once intended for critical systems has given way to the dashboard decoration.
 
I will bet that half of the cars in the United States are driving around with the check engine light on. What was once intended for critical systems has given way to the dashboard decoration.

I think that those cars driving around with the check engine light on should not restart after being neglected after a certain amount of time. I also think there should be no such thing as a wavier at DMV regardless of how much you have spent on said vehicle.
 
Why stop at boats? Let’s go buy old cars, old aircraft, old hookers. Come on guys! Yes nobody likes unproven technology breaking down, non redundant, or connected to unnecessary systems. But, engineering is not all about saving money and ripping off the customers. I like to keep a nice mix of old or new equipment/vehicles depending on their use.

I will gladly go purchase a brand new boat with new systems technology and not cringe until the total cost of ownership sets in.
 
I think that those cars driving around with the check engine light on should not restart after being neglected after a certain amount of time. I also think there should be no such thing as a wavier at DMV regardless of how much you have spent on said vehicle.

90% of the time the check engine light is on because the sensor in the emissions system is no longer working correctly. I have one car that is so sensitive that if you do not screw the gas cap on completely tight the check engine light comes on. The check engine light should never disable your automobile.
 
90% of the time the check engine light is on because the sensor in the emissions system is no longer working correctly.

That is correct and at that point the engine isn't running correctly even when you think it is.


I have one car that is so sensitive that if you do not screw the gas cap on completely tight the check engine light comes on. The check engine light should never disable your automobile.

That is what it is supposed to do.
 
I think that those cars driving around with the check engine light on should not restart after being neglected after a certain amount of time. I also think there should be no such thing as a wavier at DMV regardless of how much you have spent on said vehicle.
As long as the light can be cleared by removing power to the ECM or with a cheap scan tool, this won’t work.
 
100% agree. Those panels never looked like a good idea to me. Sitting exposed to the sun, the flexible buttons are bound to deteriorate and complex electronics for the sake of aesthetics don't make sense on a boat. The new tech that does new things has merit like the new wifi and BT enabled displays. But not putting in a complex system of electronics with circuit boards, chips and relays to simply turn on a 12v device, It just creates multiple failure points for no good reason. Anyone with those early 2000s boats searching around for EIMs or paying thousands of dollars for the Flounder Pounder "return to simple" kits would agree.

I'm trying to understand who was the primary beneficiary of the EIM dash panels.

Customers? I guess they got a squishy push button that seems spill/rain proof and fits in with some kind of high tech aesthetic.

But I can't help but think the answer was "Sea Ray and its dealer network". The former got a simpler system to install with arguably simpler assembly process, and the dealers got something that would run up repair tabs.

I'm glad mine works now, but I rue the day it doesn't.
 
Mike,

I can't talk you out of it because I am old school when it comes to things that work. I do appreciate technology that identifies a problem or narrows it down. The challenge with a lot of engine management systems is they do a terrible job of providing actionable information.

The the world of carb engines....fuel...air....spark and you are underway. I know they aren't as efficient as EFI but the diagnostic simplicity is unmatched. Check for a fuel problem....squirt some gas in the carb and crank it. It doesn't fire....check for spark. At that point you usually know what the problem is if the engine has compression.

In the world of EFI, data from a number of sensors feeds an ECM that makes the decisions. If it told you that a sensor is out of range for "nominal" conditions that would be useful without spending $1,000 for a scanner. Even the scanners don't tell you what the actual problem is. So you are left to checking every sensor's operating range, wiring, injectors, multiple fuel pumps and the list goes on. My mechanic friends like EFI because they make a lot more money working on them.

I think Holley may have the best solution which is a compromise. Their Sniper EFI unit has really taken off as a throttle body solution. If you check out offshoreonly.com you will see their marine system is getting a lot of positive press. Additionally my understanding is that Nascar is switching to that system for all cars in 2021.

So what makes their system better? Simplicity. The ECM is smart (built into the throttle body) and only has a few connections. It has a LCD panel that lets you set everything from engine timing to AFR as well as see what it's sensors (temp, wideband O2) see. It can also display additional sensors for fuel pressure, boost and oil. It is the closest thing to old school without requiring a huge shift in complexity. Also it is super easy to diagnose. Take it off and swap it with the other engine. They also have a marine distributor that makes setup even easier when the Thunderbolt stops working.

550-511_01_v218283.jpg
 
I'm trying to understand who was the primary beneficiary of the EIM dash panels.

Customers? I guess they got a squishy push button that seems spill/rain proof and fits in with some kind of high tech aesthetic.

But I can't help but think the answer was "Sea Ray and its dealer network". The former got a simpler system to install with arguably simpler assembly process, and the dealers got something that would run up repair tabs.

I'm glad mine works now, but I rue the day it doesn't.

I have a 2001 with the original EIM’s. I, like you, get a nervous twitch every time I press the Bilge Light or other button wondering if the system will work. A toggle switch would have been fine for that type of application.
If I had the dough, I would just go ahead and swap them for the FP’s and get it over with at my convenience.

They work fine now, but when they do start going out, I wonder if drilling a hole right through the soft squishy button that is malfunctioning and inserting a toggle switch in that place would fry the whole system? Probably would.
 
Mike,

I can't talk you out of it because I am old school when it comes to things that work. I do appreciate technology that identifies a problem or narrows it down. The challenge with a lot of engine management systems is they do a terrible job of providing actionable information.

The the world of carb engines....fuel...air....spark and you are underway. I know they aren't as efficient as EFI but the diagnostic simplicity is unmatched. Check for a fuel problem....squirt some gas in the carb and crank it. It doesn't fire....check for spark. At that point you usually know what the problem is if the engine has compression.

In the world of EFI, data from a number of sensors feeds an ECM that makes the decisions. If it told you that a sensor is out of range for "nominal" conditions that would be useful without spending $1,000 for a scanner. Even the scanners don't tell you what the actual problem is. So you are left to checking every sensor's operating range, wiring, injectors, multiple fuel pumps and the list goes on. My mechanic friends like EFI because they make a lot more money working on them.


I think Holley may have the best solution which is a compromise. Their Sniper EFI unit has really taken off as a throttle body solution. If you check out offshoreonly.com you will see their marine system is getting a lot of positive press. Additionally my understanding is that Nascar is switching to that system for all cars in 2021.

So what makes their system better? Simplicity. The ECM is smart (built into the throttle body) and only has a few connections. It has a LCD panel that lets you set everything from engine timing to AFR as well as see what it's sensors (temp, wideband O2) see. It can also display additional sensors for fuel pressure, boost and oil. It is the closest thing to old school without requiring a huge shift in complexity. Also it is super easy to diagnose. Take it off and swap it with the other engine. They also have a marine distributor that makes setup even easier when the Thunderbolt stops working.

550-511_01_v218283.jpg

That EFI system May be what I need for my 89 5.7 liter. I have the original Rochester carb on it now in desperate need of a rebuild. Black carbon like crazy. I may do the TB EFI install instead.
 
EIM was/is an abomination. Don’t know how that ever got through.

EFI is a blessing for me. We go from Nebraska at 2400 feet to Dillon lake at 9000 ft, adjusting the carberator every weekend would be nuts.
 
EIM was/is an abomination. Don’t know how that ever got through.

EFI is a blessing for me. We go from Nebraska at 2400 feet to Dillon lake at 9000 ft, adjusting the carberator every weekend would be nuts.
EIM may not have been that bad if they supported the damn thing. Boats kinda last a long time.
 
Can’t speak to older stuff but mine is a 2003, I can buy every part I need new from Merc. That isn’t to say I like all the pricing, just that it’s available.
 
Sorry was referring to EFI not EIM.
 
I have a 2001 with the original EIM’s. I, like you, get a nervous twitch every time I press the Bilge Light or other button wondering if the system will work. A toggle switch would have been fine for that type of application.
If I had the dough, I would just go ahead and swap them for the FP’s and get it over with at my convenience.

They work fine now, but when they do start going out, I wonder if drilling a hole right through the soft squishy button that is malfunctioning and inserting a toggle switch in that place would fry the whole system? Probably would.

Besides a generalized fear about reliability (which I acquired on this web site!), I'm annoyed by other aspects of the squishy button EIM system. One, the buttons are just too big for the functionality. I'm real sure the switching function could be fit with toggles in like half the space.

The other is I have 4 buttons on my panels which have no functionality on my specific boat but which are extremely complicated to re-purpose for something else (raw water washdown pump, auxiliary lighting, etc) thanks to the EIM. I'm sure if I spent enough time studying the wiring schematic I could sort out where to connect into them...maybe. But they left almost no free space for other switch or display mounting.

But this is part of a larger criticism I have with the dash design on this boat. It's like they hired the guy who got laid off from Buick, long on swoop and curve and short on utilitarian value and free space.

I have smartcraft guages and it makes me wonder if I could dump the speedo and the two round combi-gauges and replace with a couple of smartcraft displays. More accurate info, displayed better. Round analog style gauges are worthless except for the tachs which I would keep just for instant engine speed reference.
 
Greetings

I could not afford a 26 foot cabin cruiser if I did not do ALL of my own work. Systems and wiring on my 1981 260 SD are simple and old school. As I am rather old school (72 yr. old) I am able to work on everything. I'm probably predisposed to old things, my travel trailer is 79 years old!

Hpcrank
 
3ECD53A7-0404-4591-A3DD-B37EB22DFC05.jpeg
Sold my boat few months ago.
It was a 50 year old SR w original engine, seats, carpet, instruments, and the gel coat shined. The PO updated the outdrive 3 years prior to my purchase and only because he hit a log.

We won’t see any 2020 boats running for 50 years.

I love classics.
 
I'm not anti-technology, but I do all my own work on my boat. I don't want to have a system that I can't work on. I don't want to be at the mercy of a service guy with a laptop at $100+ an hour, especially over in the Bahamas or in the middle of a trip. I agree that new tech engines are more fuel efficient, quitter, cleaner, etc, but I feel like that all in, It will cost me less with my "old school, mechanical engines". And agree on fancy electronics that do the same thing as the old school switches, just fancier.
 

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