454 long block options

Beech2000

Beech2000

Active Member
Jul 11, 2015
250
NW Georgia USA
Boat Info
1990 Sundancer 350
Engines
2020 454 gen VI
Hurth V-Drive's
7.1 KW Kohler 5ECD
So I have a 330 Horse Merc 454 (Carb) in a 1990 Searay 350 with a noisy and rough running (1800 hours) stbd engine. I would try and fix but don't feel good outcome.
I found a builder called "ATK High Performance Engines in Grand Prairie Texas. They have a less than perfect BBA rating. I can't afford to risk a faulty engine build. Boat weight is 13000 pounds and have to use my local marina for each and every pull out and R&R. $1800 dollars plus engine shipping. What are some good cost effective but quality marine engine exchange engine options? with a good reputation whilst keeping the little guy's pocket book in mind?
 
Beech2000 said:
So I have a 330 Horse Merc 454 (Carb) in a 1990 Searay 350 with a noisy and rough running (1800 hours) stbd engine. I would try and fix but don't feel good outcome.
I found a builder called "ATK High Performance Engines in Grand Prairie Texas. They have a less than perfect BBA rating. I can't afford to risk a faulty engine build. Boat weight is 13000 pounds and have to use my local marina for each and every pull out and R&R. $1800 dollars plus engine shipping. What are some good cost effective but quality marine engine exchange engine options? with a good reputation whilst keeping the little guy's pocket book in mind?
Click to expand...

Your location lends to Dawsonville/Melling... But, https://www.michiganmotorz.com/marine-engines-c-31.html seems to have the best and most reviews around here on CSR
 
As an alternative you might ask around some good marine mechanics and see who they recommend for overhauls/rebuilds. I had a 350 rebuilt locally 2 years ago and it was very reasonable. New internals, dyno’d, warranty, etc.
 
I believe ATK supplies the remanufactured block for “Jegs” a nation top quality performance supplier.
I know they are automotive but the blocks are the same and they avail with marine freeze plugs.
I bought a GM 5.7 4 bolt main (remanufactured ATK from Jegs) and was impressed with the quality. It has 25k hard miles on it.
 
Thanks all,
I spent all day looking into the noise. I read for rough running engines cause V-Drive transmissions to clank and clunk at idle. This seems to be the source of my noise (Hopefully). I ran her at power today with covers off and engine is quiet (Similar to Port). That is quiet until we bring the starboard engine to below 700 RPM then is clanks and clunks in the marina.
I pulled all plugs, ran a compression test and found moisture on left bank plugs. Compression was for the most part fair. 72-80 on all eight cylinders. Spark plugs on 1,3,5 and 7 were covered in water and I feel source of problem of low power ignition misfire.
I read a single side of the engine with moisture in cylinders would be most likely a faulty exhaust manifold or riser or gasket.
So for now I'm going to attempt and fix myself. If I fail, I have a local machine shop whom builds engines for boats on Allatoona and Lake Lanier and has an in house dyno water brake to test for power and leaks. They also have a 35 year good reputation. Lastly I like they are local. I've had three people recommend them. Hopefully I won't need them. but nice to have a back up plan. Thanks
 
Back in 1991 I bought a 350 long block for my '79 Camaro from ATK. At the time I was in college and drove it back and forth from there which was four hundred miles from home with no problems at all. The engine ran flawless and I put around 25000 miles on it before is sold the car. It came with a warranty also. I have no idea how their marine engines are but I was satisfied with the experience I had with them and the engine I got from them.
 
Beech2000 said:
Thanks all,
I spent all day looking into the noise. I read for rough running engines cause V-Drive transmissions to clank and clunk at idle. This seems to be the source of my noise (Hopefully). I ran her at power today with covers off and engine is quiet (Similar to Port). That is quiet until we bring the starboard engine to below 700 RPM then is clanks and clunks in the marina.
I pulled all plugs, ran a compression test and found moisture on left bank plugs. Compression was for the most part fair. 72-80 on all eight cylinders. Spark plugs on 1,3,5 and 7 were covered in water and I feel source of problem of low power ignition misfire.
I read a single side of the engine with moisture in cylinders would be most likely a faulty exhaust manifold or riser or gasket.
So for now I'm going to attempt and fix myself. If I fail, I have a local machine shop whom builds engines for boats on Allatoona and Lake Lanier and has an in house dyno water brake to test for power and leaks. They also have a 35 year good reputation. Lastly I like they are local. I've had three people recommend them. Hopefully I won't need them. but nice to have a back up plan. Thanks
Click to expand...

72-80 compression on "all" 8 cylinders is low. I suspect a faulty gauge or faulty procedure. Did you warm up the engine, throttle advanced and crank the engine at least 5 revolutions when taking the readings. Does this engine reach 4200-4400 rpm at WOT? If it does then your low compression reading are wrong.
 
Strecker25 said:
As an alternative you might ask around some good marine mechanics and see who they recommend for overhauls/rebuilds. I had a 350 rebuilt locally 2 years ago and it was very reasonable. New internals, dyno’d, warranty, etc.
Click to expand...

What price doo you consider "reasonable?"
 
Reason for asking is that I'm thinking about making an offer on a 1997 330 with 454's at 1151 hours each and a generator with 875 hrs. Attempting to figure the cost of a complete overhaul of both engines and generator.
 
Just For Fun said:
Reason for asking is that I'm thinking about making an offer on a 1997 330 with 454's at 1151 hours each and a generator with 875 hrs. Attempting to figure the cost of a complete overhaul of both engines and generator.
Click to expand...

the rebuild price from the engine builder was $3,500. That did not include the labor to get the engine out or back in.

of course that was an sbc , where parts are plentiful and cheap, but bbc parts are pretty widely available too.
 
That is a reasonable price assuming the rebuild includes boring, pistons, rings, crank turned and polished, rods resized, rod bearings, main bearings, cam, cam bearings, lifters and timing chain.
As well as valve seats, guides, seals and milling.
Hot tanking the block and heads should also be included.

brand name parts and components vs Chinese knock offs are a must..

And a guarantee/ warranty.
 
Last edited:
hottoddie said:
72-80 compression on "all" 8 cylinders is low. I suspect a faulty gauge or faulty procedure. Did you warm up the engine, throttle advanced and crank the engine at least 5 revolutions when taking the readings. Does this engine reach 4200-4400 rpm at WOT? If it does then your low compression reading are wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes lower than they should be. I think the blow by is worn cylinder walls. Gauge is a Mac tools quality compression tester. It was accurate last year when I used it on my sons Ford Ranger.
No I didn't warm the engine up first but I did open the throttle and maxed each cylinder out on gauge. (About 5 revolutions)
I simply wanted to know if I had a big difference in compression per cylinder.
 
Wanderer 290 said:
That is a reasonable price assuming the rebuild includes boring, pistons, rings, crank turned and polished, rods resized, rod bearings, main bearings, cam, cam bearings, lifters and timing chain.
As well as valve seats, guides, seals and milling.
Hot tanking the block and heads should also be included.

brand name parts and components vs Chinese knock offs are a must..

And a guarantee/ warranty.
Click to expand...

Yes, that was all included. The rotating assembly was balanced, all the parts you mentioned, and also included the dyno run for timing and the output sheet. They also did it in 4 days, from the time I blew the motor to back in the slip was a total of 9 days so we were very happy with everyone who helped us out. It pays to treat your mechanic well
 
hottoddie said:
72-80 compression on "all" 8 cylinders is low. I suspect a faulty gauge or faulty procedure. Did you warm up the engine, throttle advanced and crank the engine at least 5 revolutions when taking the readings. Does this engine reach 4200-4400 rpm at WOT? If it does then your low compression reading are wrong.
Click to expand...

Here are some borescope images. Notice how wet the left bank of the engines is? Right side is dry and clean.
 

Attachments

  • 587.JPG
    587.JPG
    418.9 KB · Views: 225
  • 598.JPG
    598.JPG
    390.2 KB · Views: 221
  • 600.JPG
    600.JPG
    484.2 KB · Views: 218
  • 605.JPG
    605.JPG
    428.9 KB · Views: 222
  • 607.JPG
    607.JPG
    362 KB · Views: 206
  • 615.JPG
    615.JPG
    370.7 KB · Views: 206
  • 626.JPG
    626.JPG
    453.1 KB · Views: 226
I think the noise you hear at idle is the engine trying to catching up with the transmission. To test is to raise the idle 50 rpm and the noise will go away. Mine does that too. Many threads on this at the Cruisers Yachts forum
 
jima said:
I think the noise you hear at idle is the engine trying to catching up with the transmission. To test is to raise the idle 50 rpm and the noise will go away. Mine does that too. Many threads on this at the Cruisers Yachts forum
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I decided to have her hauled out and engines pulled. My machine shop guy and said the stbd engine was a 2 bolt main throw together, with sleeves in all cylinders, So nothing he could do with the Stbd engine. The port engine needs a crank and both cylinder heads due to cracks. Oh it also needs full set of connecting rods. (Wrist pins fall out and already bushed)
I opted to purchase new 454 Generation 6 long blocks from Michigan Motorz. Oh the challenge's adapting old to new. We ran one in garage today. Hopeful to have the second ready for the marina to install this week.
 
Beech2000 said:
Thanks for the reply. I decided to have her hauled out and engines pulled. My machine shop guy and said the stbd engine was a 2 bolt main throw together, with sleeves in all cylinders, So nothing he could do with the Stbd engine. The port engine needs a crank and both cylinder heads due to cracks. Oh it also needs full set of connecting rods. (Wrist pins fall out and already bushed)
I opted to purchase new 454 Generation 6 long blocks from Michigan Motorz. Oh the challenge's adapting old to new. We ran one in garage today. Hopeful to have the second ready for the marina to install this week.
Click to expand...
I'd be pretty suspicious if he told you the block was sleeved in all cylinders...
 
Beech2000 said:
So I have a 330 Horse Merc 454 (Carb) in a 1990 Searay 350 with a noisy and rough running (1800 hours) stbd engine. I would try and fix but don't feel good outcome.
I found a builder called "ATK High Performance Engines in Grand Prairie Texas. They have a less than perfect BBA rating. I can't afford to risk a faulty engine build. Boat weight is 13000 pounds and have to use my local marina for each and every pull out and R&R. $1800 dollars plus engine shipping. What are some good cost effective but quality marine engine exchange engine options? with a good reputation whilst keeping the little guy's pocket book in mind?
Click to expand...
We have 3,200 hours on our 454. Do not burn oil, same boat speed as original at 650 hours. Perhaps you may only require heads or tune up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,119
Messages
1,426,564
Members
61,035
Latest member
Lukerney
Back
Top