Well this is embarrassing but not surprised.

MonacoMike said:
You guys are awesome! Never wavering in your support of the establishment.
Click to expand...
You mean like your support of Trump.
It's funny that I have no problem with anyone voting for Trump if they want but people are attacked on here for voting for Biden. So why do the Trump supporters think I am not allowed to vote for whom I want too?
 
MonacoMike said:
The outsider the entire establishment is after, what an uninformed post...
Click to expand...
President Trump as an anti-establishment figure was only partially true back in 2016 and totally untrue now. The notion was a con he successfully perpetrated on gullible individuals who felt oppressed by the "system".
He has always been a creature of the business establishment and that carried over to his administration. Evidence includes the huge number of business lobbyists he brought in and most telling, the composition of his tax cut weighted heavily towards cuts for businesses and the wealthy. It's also telling is that he has raised five times the amount of contributions from S&P 500 CEOs than Biden has for the 2020 race.
If you're referring to the political establishment, there's some truth to that but it was also a sham. President Trump owned the system starting the day he was inaugurated and has had four years to shape it. But nepotism, mostly crappy and untimely personnel choices and a chaotic management style suited for a small real estate company but not for an enterprise of any significant size has made that effort mostly ineffective. On the other hand he had both houses of Congress in his pocket for his first two years and the Senate the entire time. He's also benefited from State TV and Radio. Certainly the Democratic Party establishment is out to get him but they would do that to any Republican.
Trying to posture as anti-establishment at this stage is merely a sign of trying to re-create the successful chemistry of 2016. I fear it will only work with the still-gullible who would vote for President Trump in any event and sadly, will not bring in needed new votes from the other side.
 
alnav said:
President Trump as an anti-establishment figure was only partially true back in 2016 and totally untrue now. The notion was a con he successfully perpetrated on gullible individuals who felt oppressed by the "system".
He has always been a creature of the business establishment and that carried over to his administration. Evidence includes the huge number of business lobbyists he brought in and most telling, the composition of his tax cut weighted heavily towards cuts for businesses and the wealthy. It's also telling is that he has raised five times the amount of contributions from S&P 500 CEOs than Biden has for the 2020 race.
If you're referring to the political establishment, there's some truth to that but it was also a sham. President Trump owned the system starting the day he was inaugurated and has had four years to shape it. But nepotism, mostly crappy and untimely personnel choices and a chaotic management style suited for a small real estate company but not for an enterprise of any significant size has made that effort mostly ineffective. On the other hand he had both houses of Congress in his pocket for his first two years and the Senate the entire time. He's also benefited from State TV and Radio. Certainly the Democratic Party establishment is out to get him but they would do that to any Republican.
Trying to posture as anti-establishment at this stage is merely a sign of trying to re-create the successful chemistry of 2016. I fear it will only work with the still-gullible who would vote for President Trump in any event and sadly, will not bring in needed new votes from the other side.
Click to expand...

You should seek professional help for that TDS you have. It may start to rash out soon.

In DC where the swamp is rigged against normal republicans it is downright ugly to an outsider like Trump.
 
This was somewhat embarrassing:
People Can’t Believe This RNC Tweet About Trump’s Priorities Isn’t A Parody
upload_2020-10-25_8-49-41.png
 
alnav said:
President Trump as an anti-establishment figure was only partially true back in 2016 and totally untrue now. The notion was a con he successfully perpetrated on gullible individuals who felt oppressed by the "system".
He has always been a creature of the business establishment and that carried over to his administration. Evidence includes the huge number of business lobbyists he brought in and most telling, the composition of his tax cut weighted heavily towards cuts for businesses and the wealthy. It's also telling is that he has raised five times the amount of contributions from S&P 500 CEOs than Biden has for the 2020 race.
If you're referring to the political establishment, there's some truth to that but it was also a sham. President Trump owned the system starting the day he was inaugurated and has had four years to shape it. But nepotism, mostly crappy and untimely personnel choices and a chaotic management style suited for a small real estate company but not for an enterprise of any significant size has made that effort mostly ineffective. On the other hand he had both houses of Congress in his pocket for his first two years and the Senate the entire time. He's also benefited from State TV and Radio. Certainly the Democratic Party establishment is out to get him but they would do that to any Republican.
Trying to posture as anti-establishment at this stage is merely a sign of trying to re-create the successful chemistry of 2016. I fear it will only work with the still-gullible who would vote for President Trump in any event and sadly, will not bring in needed new votes from the other side.
Click to expand...
You couldn't be more wrong. Trump never "had both houses of Congress in his pocket." Many establishment Republicrats thwarted him back then and still do. Establishment politicians have one MO. Create and issue to run on, but never solve it so you have something to run on.
 
How Trump abandoned his pledge to ‘drain the swamp’
"On a Friday evening in late September, President Trump huddled with high-dollar donors, lobbyists and corporate executives in a private room at the hotel he owns in Washington, where attendees took turns pitching the president on their pet issues.
Trump was there to raise big money for his reelection effort. The price of admission: as much as $100,000 per person to get in the door.
For his guests, it was a chance to make the most of what has emerged as a signature feature of Trump’s Washington: the ability of wealthy donors to directly lobby the president.
Among the five pledges Trump made to “drain the swamp” and curtail the influence of lobbyists in a major campaign speech in October 2016, a Washington Post review found that he sought to address only two, through an executive order in January 2017 — which contained a major loophole.
But a report compiled by Public Citizen in March 2018 — only 14 months into the administration — found that 133 former lobbyists had been appointed to the Trump administration. They included 60 who had lobbied within two years of joining government and 35 of those former lobbyists were appointed to oversee the specific topics about which they had previously lobbied."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...c7682c-0a5a-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html
 
alnav said:
How Trump abandoned his pledge to ‘drain the swamp’
"On a Friday evening in late September, President Trump huddled with high-dollar donors, lobbyists and corporate executives in a private room at the hotel he owns in Washington, where attendees took turns pitching the president on their pet issues.
Trump was there to raise big money for his reelection effort. The price of admission: as much as $100,000 per person to get in the door.
For his guests, it was a chance to make the most of what has emerged as a signature feature of Trump’s Washington: the ability of wealthy donors to directly lobby the president.
Among the five pledges Trump made to “drain the swamp” and curtail the influence of lobbyists in a major campaign speech in October 2016, a Washington Post review found that he sought to address only two, through an executive order in January 2017 — which contained a major loophole.
But a report compiled by Public Citizen in March 2018 — only 14 months into the administration — found that 133 former lobbyists had been appointed to the Trump administration. They included 60 who had lobbied within two years of joining government and 35 of those former lobbyists were appointed to oversee the specific topics about which they had previously lobbied."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...c7682c-0a5a-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html
Click to expand...
Now do Biden, Obama, Clinton, et al.
 
Trump is still doing his best to keep the pledge to drain the swamp.


“President Donald Trump has fired his biggest broadside yet this week against a federal bureaucracy he has moved to remake with an executive order that would remove job security from an estimated tens of thousands of civil servants.“

“The directive, issued late Wednesday, strips long-held civil service protections from employees whose work involves policymaking, allowing them to be dismissed with little cause or recourse, much like the political appointees who come and go with each administration.“

Duh! Anyone involved in making policy decision should be under the direct supervision of the executive and the executive should be responsible for them.

As we saw during the impeachment trial the egos of the national security civil servants were bruised because the president had a plan different from theirs. They were not elected, the president was, he makes the decision, not them!


https://www.stripes.com/news/us/tru...ns-of-thousands-of-federal-employees-1.649559
 
alnav said:
Why? Did any of them promise to "drain the swamp" then bail on it?
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I had a long talk with a guy last night...that voted for Trump in 16 and is voting for Biden this year. Every point he made always came back to how much he hated trump himself.. He was willing to over look bidens policy's due to his hatred of Trump... It was really interesting.... Mind boggling but interesting

If you're naive enough to believe you can drain the swamp in 4 years then you don't know how Washington works. Biden is not the answer to this country for the next 4 years without a doubt.... Trump will do more good then harm
 
Blueone said:
I had a long talk with a guy last night...that voted for Trump in 16 and is voting for Biden this year. Every point he made always came back to how much he hated trump himself.. He was willing to over look bidens policy's due to his hatred of Trump... It was really interesting.... Mind boggling but interesting

If you're naive enough to believe you can drain the swamp in 4 years then you don't know how Washington works. Biden is not the answer to this country for the next 4 years without a doubt.... Trump will do more good then harm
Click to expand...
I think I understand how Washington works at least as well if not better than anyone who has been posting here. I completely agree that four years is not long enough. But, if one is trying to drain the swamp, you would think he would stop filling it as the first step. But, the evidence seems to indicate that President Trump has filled it up even more than did the Obama administration in terms of lobbyists and corporate interests.
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
The civil service EO does not, in my opinion, do anything in terms of swamp-draining. The employees targeted have long been supposed to be apolitical. Trying to turn them into the pawns of any specific administration would be a real nightmare. Besides, filling the thousands of jobs that will presumably become open and then need to be filled would likely be impossible for an administration that hasn't been able to fill the political jobs it already has.
 
alnav said:
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
Click to expand...

You mean like the one prohibiting his son from selling access for Burisma et. al.?
 
Blueone said:
I had a long talk with a guy last night...that voted for Trump in 16 and is voting for Biden this year. Every point he made always came back to how much he hated trump himself.. He was willing to over look bidens policy's due to his hatred of Trump... It was really interesting.... Mind boggling but interesting

If you're naive enough to believe you can drain the swamp in 4 years then you don't know how Washington works. Biden is not the answer to this country for the next 4 years without a doubt.... Trump will do more good then harm
Click to expand...

Especially the week after the election all media eyes will shift toward 2024. Trump will be yesterday's news. The media will cover him as a lame duck as opposed to an existential threat.
 
alnav said:
I think I understand how Washington works at least as well if not better than anyone who has been posting here. I completely agree that four years is not long enough. But, if one is trying to drain the swamp, you would think he would stop filling it as the first step. But, the evidence seems to indicate that President Trump has filled it up even more than did the Obama administration in terms of lobbyists and corporate interests.
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
The civil service EO does not, in my opinion, do anything in terms of swamp-draining. The employees targeted have long been supposed to be apolitical. Trying to turn them into the pawns of any specific administration would be a real nightmare. Besides, filling the thousands of jobs that will presumably become open and then need to be filled would likely be impossible for an administration that hasn't been able to fill the political jobs it already has.
Click to expand...

This presupposes that lobbyists are bad! The constitution clearly outlines the right association and there is nothing wrong with those associations hiring someone to represent their interests in Washington. Lobbyists are like congressman everybody hates lobbyists except their own. Everyone is a lobbyist for their own interests. Lobbyists tend to be experts in the field that they lobby in because they once were highly successful in that field generally. So that your measure anyone who was once highly successful in a given field but then became a lobbyist for that association is no longer qualified to work in government?

I like living under the first amendment and have no interest in living under your totalitarian regimes.
 
alnav said:
I think I understand how Washington works at least as well if not better than anyone who has been posting here. I completely agree that four years is not long enough. But, if one is trying to drain the swamp, you would think he would stop filling it as the first step. But, the evidence seems to indicate that President Trump has filled it up even more than did the Obama administration in terms of lobbyists and corporate interests.
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
The civil service EO does not, in my opinion, do anything in terms of swamp-draining. The employees targeted have long been supposed to be apolitical. Trying to turn them into the pawns of any specific administration would be a real nightmare. Besides, filling the thousands of jobs that will presumably become open and then need to be filled would likely be impossible for an administration that hasn't been able to fill the political jobs it already has.
Click to expand...
Did you copy and paste that too?
 
alnav said:
I think I understand how Washington works at least as well if not better than anyone who has been posting here. I completely agree that four years is not long enough. But, if one is trying to drain the swamp, you would think he would stop filling it as the first step. But, the evidence seems to indicate that President Trump has filled it up even more than did the Obama administration in terms of lobbyists and corporate interests.
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
The civil service EO does not, in my opinion, do anything in terms of swamp-draining. The employees targeted have long been supposed to be apolitical. Trying to turn them into the pawns of any specific administration would be a real nightmare. Besides, filling the thousands of jobs that will presumably become open and then need to be filled would likely be impossible for an administration that hasn't been able to fill the political jobs it already has.
Click to expand...
alnav said:
I think I understand how Washington works at least as well if not better than anyone who has been posting here. I completely agree that four years is not long enough. But, if one is trying to drain the swamp, you would think he would stop filling it as the first step. But, the evidence seems to indicate that President Trump has filled it up even more than did the Obama administration in terms of lobbyists and corporate interests.
I imagine a President Biden will at a minimum restore the ethics rules that the Obama administration had in place and perhaps do even more in this regard.
The civil service EO does not, in my opinion, do anything in terms of swamp-draining. The employees targeted have long been supposed to be apolitical. Trying to turn them into the pawns of any specific administration would be a real nightmare. Besides, filling the thousands of jobs that will presumably become open and then need to be filled would likely be impossible for an administration that hasn't been able to fill the political jobs it already has.
Click to expand...

The executive order will keep policymakers from making policy counter to the administration, which is supposed to be the one who administers policy. Republican administrations are at a huge disadvantage because the majority of the civil service are against their policy goals. Which is very much a part of what I define is the swamp of Washington.
 
MonacoMike said:
This presupposes that lobbyists are bad! The constitution clearly outlines the right association and there is nothing wrong with those associations hiring someone to represent their interests in Washington. Lobbyists are like congressman everybody hates lobbyists except their own. Everyone is a lobbyist for their own interests. Lobbyists tend to be experts in the field that they lobby in because they once were highly successful in that field generally. So that your measure anyone who was once highly successful in a given field but then became a lobbyist for that association is no longer qualified to work in government?

I like living under the first amendment and have no interest in living under your totalitarian regimes.
Click to expand...
MonacoMike said:
This presupposes that lobbyists are bad! The constitution clearly outlines the right association and there is nothing wrong with those associations hiring someone to represent their interests in Washington. Lobbyists are like congressman everybody hates lobbyists except their own. Everyone is a lobbyist for their own interests. Lobbyists tend to be experts in the field that they lobby in because they once were highly successful in that field generally. So that your measure anyone who was once highly successful in a given field but then became a lobbyist for that association is no longer qualified to work in government?

I like living under the first amendment and have no interest in living under your totalitarian regimes.
Click to expand...

indeed. And I find comedy in Democrats bitching about lobbyists and millionaires, except when they’re doing the lobbying and being millionaires themselves. As I brought up before, Joe Biden said he’s going after the rich to have them pay their fair share. (another class warfare yawning moment) $400k and above. So what happened to the evil millionaires and billionaires? Now we’re going after the thousandaires? What a joke.....
 
Blueone said:
I had a long talk with a guy last night...that voted for Trump in 16 and is voting for Biden this year. Every point he made always came back to how much he hated trump himself.. He was willing to over look bidens policy's due to his hatred of Trump... It was really interesting.... Mind boggling but interesting

If you're naive enough to believe you can drain the swamp in 4 years then you don't know how Washington works. Biden is not the answer to this country for the next 4 years without a doubt.... Trump will do more good then harm
Click to expand...
I was talking to my sister and we got into politics accidentally;) She spoke her piece, she thinks Trump is terrible and doesn't think much of any of his supporters.:p When I started to offer my opinion, asked her to consider this and that....she cut me off, she said 'I don't know why I should even have to listen to anything you have to say'. :eek:

I think she's been hanging around with city folks too long...... she used to be pretty intelligent.
 
Woody said:
I was talking to my sister and we got into politics accidentally;) She spoke her piece, she thinks Trump is terrible and doesn't think much of any of his supporters.:p When I started to offer my opinion, asked her to consider this and that....she cut me off, she said 'I don't know why I should even have to listen to anything you have to say'. :eek:

I think she's been hanging around with city folks too long...... she used to be pretty intelligent.
Click to expand...

His 60 minutes interview was a disaster. He failed to answer the questions again. If there was a method to his madness it has been missed by millions of people. Your sister is not alone Trump is about to suffer the worse defeat in US history. I just hope the GOP can regroup and have a strong showing in 2024. Lots to learn from the 2016 experiment that has failed.
 
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