New truck or keep the existing - Looking for comments

So, I have done great gobs of interweb research and I think I know the direction I will go but want photos and advice. I bought a new to me 1997 270 Dancer (SE narrow 8.5 beam) last august. Its in the shop getting fresh bottom paint. While doing this the trailer is getting at shop jettisoning Surge brakes in leu of new electric over hydraulic system. Trailer is a 2006 new old stock EZ loader dual axle with disc brakes on both axles with oil bath hubs. boat weight is about 7,200 wet and trailer is 2,100 for total weight of 9,300#. Tongue load measured from my weigh safe drop hitch is about 450#. Truck I currently have is 2001 Ford F250 super duty quad cab short bed-3.73 axle, but with oversized 35inch tires and 6 inch lift. This reduces the axle ratio to more like 3.44 as stock tires were 31 inch. Hitch I have is the standard ford V-5 stating 12,500/1,250# load dist or 5,000/500# weight carrying and 2 ich receiver. I wont go into the minutia metrics of this unless someone wants more detail. Suffice to say with the Weigh safe 6 inch drop hitch/14,000# rated receiver the trailer sits perfectly level when towing. Research indicates its a crap shoot on weight distribution (WD) add and EZ loader dealer states WD not recommended for our trailers "just make sure its level with appropriate tongue load". With the 450# tongue load the GVWR for the truck isnt an issue (8,800lb) and the GCWR i think for the Ford V10 is like 17K. BUT, here's the dellima- When I towed the boat home in August to put away for the winter, the 90K AOD tranny promptly gave it up. Tranny fluid out the main seal onto the Precat, nice fire under truck when I pulled in drive way (live on big hill but the output shaft seal issue common to the AOD). Tranny is rebuilt with slightly heavier discs and seal replaced now. Thinking now about jettisoning the F250 in light of a diesel or V10 Ram (2000-2005 vintage). Not new because I cant afford that even though the diesel 24V is twice (20K) the v10 (10K) of the same year of ram (2002). Or, alternatively, do I keep the F250 and upgrade the hitch with a Superhitch 2.5 inch receiver for about a grand and keep the ford hoping the tranny holds up and not worry about any weight distributing system that boat trailers really arent designed for. For those that dont know the Ram 24Vs and V10s have an less than desirable 47/48RE not as good as the AOD ford. I do have an eye on a 2004 silverado 2500 with the 496 low mile (130K) for about $12K too. The chevys have a bullet proof Allison tranny and very slightly more HP/Torque that either the dodge or Ford of same year. Is it worth the money or keep what I got???

If you go with the chevy or dodge you should sell the sea ray and buy a bayliner

First off I would look into a convertor lock up. I don't know about fords but on the GM lines you can install a jumper switch that grounds a couple pins in the ECM that will lock the convertor. Just have to remember to unlock the switch when slowing below 40mph.

As for the hitch, do yourself a favor and look into the UHaul hitches. Nation wide warranty that if anything happens, they replace the hitch. I just put a Curt Commercial Duty 2.5 hitch in our new to us K3500 GM DRW diesel. Paid $350 installed by "The Haul". At 20k lbs, I think it will work for your smaller boat. I picked up the stinger and ball from them delivered to my door for $80. Also set at 20k each.

As for the pick up, a 3/4 ton will work but as an old heavy haul truck driver, I tend to not want the weak link being the tow rig. We looked for a year for the one we found. A 2004 Chevy with the 6.6l and Ally. If you get one with the LB7 have the injectors replaced with something built to current standards. And have the fuel system seals upgraded to above OEM standards. They do have a leak point at the hard line to braided line under the cab. The o ring will leak air into the system and causes the air to travel the system and land on a shoulder in the injector nozzle. The air will sit there and you will get pneumatic hammering that will cause the shoulder to crack and the injectors will leak down causing the dreaded white smoke at idle. If you do get the 6.6 with ally, warm everything up before hitting the road. It's just better on everything. The convertor will only lock when the trans is at 100*.

John

Save the money on the truck and drop the boat in a slip. Towing is a pia.

@Mark.60
I would not buy any brand diesel truck that the engine is manufactured by the vehicle OEM.
Originally Ford used International engines and they did well
Dodge understood that diesels in heavy service are a different beast and partnered with an expert, Cummins
Trucks are like our boats the engines never coast, they are pulling 75+% all the time.

@Golfman25
I think leaving the boat in a slip unattended is a pita. And having to drive down to tinker on anything.

I tow the boat pictured below all the time,
11,500 boat, 3,500 trailer = 15,000 TGVW (trailer GVWR 18,000) Electric over hydraulic brakes
2001 Dodge 2500 Cummins 24v, Dodge 46RE (weak link) 8,140 GVWR
21,500 CGVW,
2" XD Class V hitch 17,000 towing, 1500 tongue capacity
My tongue weight 1,500
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/30ft-oversized-load-trailering-lets-see-your-tow-rigs.92274/

You are already doing all the right things...
GREAT #1 - jettisoning Surge brakes in leu of new electric over hydraulic system.

GO TO SCALE AND BE CERTAIN # 2 - boat weight is about 7,200 wet and trailer is 2,100 for total weight of 9,300#.

LITTLE LIGHT #3 Tongue load measured from my weigh safe drop hitch is about 450#.
(with a new heavy duty hitch you should go to 950# - to light is the biggest cause of swaying.

MORE THAN ADEQUATE #4 - 2001 Ford F250 super duty quad cab short bed-3.73 axle, but with oversized 35inch tires and 6 inch lift. This reduces the axle ratio to more like 3.44 as stock tires were 31 inch.

DUMP THE FACTORY HITCH #5 - Hitch I have is the standard ford V-5 stating 12,500/1,250# load dist or 5,000/500# weight carrying and 2 ich receiver.

VERY IMPORTANT #6 - trailer sits perfectly level when towing.

CAN WORK BUT RARELY NEEDED #7 - weight distribution (WD) add and EZ loader dealer states WD not recommended for our trailers "just make sure its level with appropriate tongue load".

LIKELY FINE NOW #8 -Tranny is rebuilt with slightly heavier discs and seal replaced now.

Some myths busted.
Factory Dodge says 10,000 max at receiver, anything over that fifth wheel. (because they only install a class 4 hitch)
Same 3500 Dodge has a 1200# LESS towing capacity than my 2500? Because your not dragging the weight around of a 1 ton axle and springs and an extra set of tires, that weight counts against you. This is not a fifth wheel rig.

1,500# tongue weight with no WD rig, now this depends on the setup a bit.
I have a full 8 foot Quad cab and the diesel adds a good weight to the front axle, and rear has standard helpers which just touch when hitched.
Unhitched measure the tire to fender front and rear. Then hitch up, measure again.
The nose will left up and the rear will settle. you can go online and calculate the steering axle weight and the rear axle weight. Or go to a good truck CAT scale and get all axle weights hitched and unhitched. As long as you are not over the rear axle rating. And as long as there is still about 80% of the front axle weight present you should be fine.

otherwise reduce the tongue slightly and re measure or go with WD

FYI - your boat is very reasonable to tow with your rig. My tranny failed even before towing at about 105,000 miles they were known to be weak with the diesel. Shop was amazed it lasted that long. Good pro rebuild and have 285,000 on truck now and still shifts solid.

My trailer and boat with a half tank of fuel is right at 12000lbs. Put it on the 04 Chevy K3500 DRW and it lowered the truck right at 1". And this was with the trailer not level but 3" low. I think with the 2.5" rise stinger it will sit better and not drop the truck the full inch. The front end didn't move at all.

The stock class 5 2" hitch, I had to replace it. It maxed out at 10,000lbs. I have seen an over weighted hitch come apart one time. I just don't want that on my hands with the roads I'll be traveling.

The biggest problem with auto transmissions and diesel motors is harmonics. I blew up a bosses "bullet proofed" ford tranny behind a 6.0. It didn't lock up correctly while pulling a 23,000lbs load. I told him it wouldn't last long and he just laughed at me and told me a ford will pull anything. Well anything but (at least this time) a 40' flatbed with a 19,000lbs+ skidsteer.

yeah I would love to have my truck with an Allison transmission.

I should point out I dont go over 60mph when I'm towing the trailer.
It just makes no sense to be in a hurry towing big boats, big weight.
Hard on the engine, trans, trailer tires, bearings just everything.
For what? to save an hour if I'm going all the way from Rock Hill, SC to Charleston, SC. So three becomes four, so what...

Yeah, I don't go over truck speed when towing heavy. And the road between here and everywhere is 55 or less anyhow. Towing I even slow down in the rain and after dark. Towing on dry pavement in the dark and a deer jumps out in front of you, breaking at 50 takes less distance than at 55. I leave all the hurry for the jackwagons at the launch.

You know we never asked an important question. How far?
If you are towing around town to launch, your going to be fine.

I usually only tow 30 minutes to my lake.
But we go to the ocean occasionally for a long weekend. (4hr)
And even less often we go down to my brothers in law in South Florida (Jupiter Inlet 16hr/2 days and then Islamorada 8hr/1 days) We do that over a couple of weeks.

hughespat57 said:

otherwise reduce the tongue slightly and re measure or go with WD

FYI - your boat is very reasonable to tow with your rig. My tranny failed even before towing at about 105,000 miles they were known to be weak with the diesel. Shop was amazed it lasted that long. Good pro rebuild and have 285,000 on truck now and still shifts solid.

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Hughespat57 this is EXACTLY the feedback I was after. Others too, great feedback......other than the bayliner quip. SO, one additional thing here on suspension - I find it really interesting that mine doesnt even squat a micro inch with 450# on the tongue. Its got a fabtech 6 inch lift but as noted, maybe I need to move the boat forward about 6 inches to get that additional 400ish# . That WILL require the real Class V. We have Uhaul very close. I've had them install controllers on prior trucks and the local guys in Kirkland, WA do a good job. Ill look into them. Also, like others, I stay at or below 60 when towing. Its just plain safer, easier to react, and promotes less sway. You've almost convinced me to keep the Ford. So, the other thing ill do is swap out the 3.73 gears for maybe 4.10 or 4.30s. I will only use the truck to tow and then only 16 miles to and from the Everett boat ramp. It does require single lane hwy speed for about 12 of the 16 miles but its limited to 55. the ramp in Everett is a really nice, new location with wash station and large ramp (8 in and 6 our ramps). So, regarding towing vs moorage. I just sold a 2002 Rinker 342 Fiesta Fee (37 LOA) that I kept on Lake Washington for 4 years. I hated not being able to work on it (like the bottom paint I have detailed in the Mid 90s DA thread) and even worse paying 6 bills a month for moorage over winter when I didnt use the boat. Yes, towing is a PITA but when you can save $7,200/annual, work on it any time you want, and not fear storms and rising/lowering water levels and mooring lines, it more than makes up for that PITA. That is for at least the next 1/2 season in 2021. We'll see. The wife and I talked and the back up plan is dry covered stack storage down in Everett with will call splash convenience at 4 bills/month. Yet another reason maybe to stick with the Ford.

Weigh the costs. Trailer payment verses the moorage costs. Same with the truck. Fabtech makes a very robust product. But I would ask them about towing the weights you mention. If possible get it in writing. If something goes hinky, then you have a leg to stand on where warranty is concerned. And a good platform is a good platform. Your comfortable in the truck now and if will take the weight, then might save the money for the stuff that will be needed for the boat. Since your in Kirkland, Curts warehouse is very close to you. Just don't buy direct. I saved over $100 by going with Uhaul after the install. Being as I plan on towing more than the boat and the pick up is set up for only towing, I put a monitor on the dash. II can monitor everything from fuel rail pressure to trans temps to anything motor concerns. Yes a gas engine can benefit from a monitor. But at 16 miles, maybe it's not needed. I'm 80 miles from the nearest launch fresh water or salt water. So I planned accordingly.

Keep it and start saving for whatever may happens next! I have an 06 Chev Dmax dually with the Bullet Proof Allison. Well, it's on Allison Tranny #2. First one croaked at 147,000 miles for no apparent reason. Dropped a new tranny in since the truck had a new engine at 50,000 miles when we bought it and figured I'd never have to touch it. Chev dealer installed it and now I have to pull it AGAIN to replace a seal that is leaking tranny fluid 30,000 miles and 4 year later. Very slowly, but leaking.

I know Ford's of that era had injector/head bolt issues and Dodge had the tranny issue along with some other odd Dodge related issues. I'm an easy driver, don't push it, don't go over 65 and usually at 60. We tow our 89 300 DA and a 30 foot travel trailer. It's just part of the loads I guess? I wouldn't go back to gas though because it's just so much easier with diesel. Drive it and start saving up so you are READY for what life throws at you!

Again, all good feedback. So, yea, the V10 Ford has tendency to throw plugs. But, I only have 91K miles so as long as I and/or techs that work on it are aware of over-torque issues, I should be able to avoid that problem. I see several Ford Triton V10's on Craigslist at over 250K miles. So, all these trucks in the early to mid 2010's have their issues. Yes Chevy has Allison tranny but they pare it with Duramax with injector issues. I am surprised Sundancer your on No. 2 but, it is what it is. Dodge has a great 12V and a pretty good 24V depending on the year but they both are paired with a not so good 47/48RE. And the ford 7.3L bullet proof but suprisingly Ford only rates them at 10K max towing and then only with Weight Distribution. Which takes me to this conclusing when pulling a 10-13K load - Shouldnt we be looking at Medium duty rather than Light duty trucks we are trying to eck out 8,800 comfortable to 11K sort of white knuckle. And of course the quick answer is Gawd no, the light duties are expensive enough. We go to a Kodiak/Topkick C/k 4500 or Ford 650 Toy hauler etc and were at 80K for mildly used one. And, with Medium duty your getting into CDL territory closing in on 26K GCWR.

And, after the weekend thinking, I will stick with the Ford I have, put a super Hitch or equivalent on it and just be careful on the road to and from the boat ramp. And, as noted, save the green for the new Bravo III and/or rebuilding the 7.4L when it gives up the ghost. I'll post a few photos of the upgraded Electric over Hydraulic trailer braking system when I pull her home this week. Waiting for the sleeting freezing rain to bring it home. Looking forward to having that braking upgrade.

There is good and bad with everything. I know of folks with the LB7 pulling 23k with never a problem. And folks pulling heavy with their V10's also with no problems. But then there is stories of those that have all the problems. I do know the only way I would have any Cummins motor is with a manual trans.

We borrowed a Kodiak to pick up our 300DA. I would rather have a old buckboard with a team of 6 up (===[wagon]) as it would be more comfortable than those Medium duty trucks. And most are just "light duty" drive train with a heavier frame.

Just know your limits and drive under them. Maintain properly and all should be fine. Hell if I could pull a 11k fiver behind a GM 6.5l fine for many years, then you will be fine with that V10 and it's reliable ability.

Golfman25 said:

Save the money on the truck and drop the boat in a slip. Towing is a pia.

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True towing can be a pain. But if the OP is like me. He likes to boat in different locations. One weekend I’ll be on Lake Michigan. The next I’ll be on the Mississippi. Then the following weekend I’ll be on Lake Superior.

Maggieiscrazy said:

True towing can be a pain.

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Having towed everything from a harbor freight trailer to a 60'+ removable goose neck equipment trailer, there was only one that was truly a PITA. And that was the 53' refers. Everything else is nothing if you have a little common cense and watch whats going on around you. Having a trailer was the first thing we had on the list when we started looking at a larger boat. For the exact reason you mentioned. The versatility to go where we wanted.

Well, regarding towing other locations -I would love to do that. Primarily for me would be eastern Washington and Lake Chelan. HOWEVER, to get there is navigating Snoqualmie Pass and a gawd awful 45 minute incline from 500 feet to over 3,200 feet. Ha! that outweighs the interest in Chelan with a 10K load particularly given I have Lake Washington and even better, Puget Sound/San Juans and the Canadian Gulf Islands 16 miles away. Would take a lifetime to see all of those island spots. Just got the trailer back and here's a few photos of the electric over hydraulic. Hydrastart system. The system works fine but Alas, I have let the Ford set unused and the 7 way plug pins are all corroded - Uggh. So, next week is the 12K class IV hitch and Ill add to that troubleshooting the 12V pin and other corrosion issues. I swear, if you dont weatherproof EVERYTHING on a twice a year frequency its never going to be reliable. Grrrr... Also not sure why the photos are coming upside down. Any direction on this would be great.

I buy the Super Lube from Harbor freight by the case. I found the stuff when I was into high power rocketry and used it for rocket motor ease of clean up. A great dielectric grease. Anytime I have a connection I use the stuff. That magnesium chloride they use on the roads for deicer is horrible stuff as it eats the wiring out of a trailer or tow rig fast. That stuff is worst than saltwater on stuff. On this wet side of the states it's almost a must. That and anything to remove the moss. Our white 300DA is now green from sitting just four months now.

On towing heavy with any pass, a diesel you can put water injection on it to cool the intake air. This in turn cools the combustion chamber temps reducing the stresses on the pistons. Also cooling the exhaust temps and keps the overall temps of the motor down. Add about 30% meth to that and you cool better plus add horse power. Not too sure how it would work on a gas engine. Pulling hills it works great.

I've been over Snowcrawlme many times with 300 DA and all 15,000 lbs. I just let the truck tell me how fast it wants to go. I'm never in a hurry from Vantage west up that grade or in a hurry from Seattle heading East. I just take my time, pull over to the right lane and settle into a nice easy speed. Going east, it's only bad for about 10 miles right before the summit. Climbing from the Vantage Bridge to the rest area is longer and continuous. Fortunately, I don't have to drive that way anymore! I used to live in Spokane and now live in the Yakima Valley so I get the three hills between Yakima and Ellensburg that are shorter. I've also considered driving that late at night to avoid traffic, especially in the Bellevue area. That is the worst part for me!

Chelan is worth the trip!! BUT, if you make it over, hit Porcupine Bay where the Spokane River enters the Columbia, Priest Lake or Lake Pend Oreille in Northern, ID!!

Learned something new this weekend. I didnt know where the date code was on tires. Just learned. The code on my existing trailer I bought from a dealer as "new old stock" 2006 EZ Loader were Goodyear marathons and had a date code of 4505. Ugghh. 2005. Ran like my hair was on fire to the Schwab today for a new set. They sell Towstars. Got G rated. They dont mileage warranty but they did say they'll stand behind them and road assist if needed. Here's the new Stamp 4420. 44th week 2020. Nice! Next week I get the new Class IV hitch and trouble shoot the Tekonsha P3 controller.



Any ideas where you can get seals for the oil bath bearing cover? For that matter, instructions? Never done that before. apparently its 80 weight and "...be quick with the cap replace?" I cant or dont want to is better wording get bearing buddies because the entire braking system would need replace at $1,500. I can learn to do a lot of oil bath replaces for that price.