DO NOT INSURE YOUR BOAT WITH PROGRESSIVE

blaster said:
What attorney would publicly announce that they are a “lawyer” and they will “sue out of principal “ while publicly trashing a huge insurance company with deep pockets?
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All insurers have deep pockets. Some, however, treat their customers better than others, and some develop a reputation for denying claims out of the gate. Progressive is one such insurer that has developed that reputation, at least among professionals in the marine industry. This is approximately a $20,000 claim. The unfortunate reality is that few would hire an attorney to pursue a $20,000 claim, because the cost of paying an attorney, on top of the cost of funding the repair yourself, makes little economic sense. As a result, insurers like Progressive get away with denying a legitimate claim, knowing full well that they will not be called to account for it.

In this instance, however, I intend to hold Progressive to the letter of their policy, as I can do so without paying another attorney to go through the process. The reality is that Progressive is going to spend far more defending a lawsuit, than they will simply paying the claim. However, as these are large insurers with a bureaucracy to match, I suspect they'll do so anyway.

I am going to document the process, to give others a roadmap on how to challenge a no from an insurer. Doesn't cost me anything to do it and hopefully it will be helpful to others in a similar situation.
 
Progressive claim decision and response.
 

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  • 2020.12.23 Progressive Claim Decision.pdf
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  • 2021.01.23 Response to Progressive_FINAL.pdf
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Heading to Catalina on plane at 23.9 knots
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Loss of propulsion on port side.
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Returning to port on starboard engine

upload_2021-2-21_11-48-11.png
 
Good on you for hiring the marine surveyor. I guess when these posts are quietly deleted from this thread we will know you reached an agreement with Progressive that involves an NDA.
 
?? Was this an independent adjuster? If so...no matter where you are insured the outcome might be the same. Very few insurance companies have marine adjusters as it is rather specialized.
 
Groucho said:
?? Was this an independent adjuster? If so...no matter where you are insured the outcome might be the same. Very few insurance companies have marine adjusters as it is rather specialized.
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Years ago I was stopped at a red light with the boat on a trailer and was rear-ended. The idiot's insurance company handled the claim. I had a reputable boat repair company give me a quote. When the adjuster came to the house I showed him the itemized repair bill. He said, OK, let's go thru this line by line....

1. Replace transom. His First question - what's a transom?

The agent said the bill was excessive - the boat wasn't worth that much. They offered XXX. I said let me think about it. I am going to the doctor for X-rays this week...my neck still hurts. She said if I give you the full amount will you settle right now and sign a waiver of future claims? I said OK.

My neck felt better soon after I got the check. I repaired the boat myself, and traded it in for a brand new one. I had cash left over in the end.
 
Groucho said:
FYI....
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/12/meme-politicizes-progressive-insurance/
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I've been buying auto, homeowners and marine insurance for over 50 years. Thus, my experiences go back awhile, and my opinions last a lifetime....LOL.

If you google "Controversies", there are some issues that make an honest person mad. Apparently, the documented cases are 2012 and before. So, maybe they are a better company now that the founder is no longer in control. After reading this thread, maybe not.

The above link covers only the tip of the iceberg. It didn't address the issues that really made me mad.

Regardless, my insurance policies have reasonable competitive rates, and I have had claims in the past. All were resolved 100% to my satisfaction. That's where i'll stay.
 
Well keep us updated. I read everything and it looks like you have your ducks in a row.
 
It will be cool to watch how this plays out. Hopefully you get something for all the effort!
 
I had a pipe leak in my cabin which ruined my flooring and subflooring. Progressive said it was normal wear and tear. Never even sent out an adjuster. Crooks!!!
 
In the interest of full disclosure, here's Progressive's survey. Insurers like experts that use big words and will find for the insurer reliably. This guy is well known for his insurance work. Notably, he has no engineering background, but has a lot of certifications. His theory that the area of most stress would be at the propeller end of the shaft has no basis in engineering, whatsoever. The area of greatest stress upon the propeller striking something, would be at the transmission end of the shaft, where the source of the continued torque (transmission) is located. Notably absent is any effort to address the propeller damage.

I am awaiting Progressive's letter affirming their claim decision, at which point I'll be filing a lawsuit. I will also be sending them a letter demanding that they preserve all documents relating to the claim.
 

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  • Progressive Survey_.pdf
    1.8 MB · Views: 245
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While the insurer should know better, it never hurts to put them on notice to preserve everything.
 

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  • 2021.02.22 Progressive Evidence Preservation Letter.pdf
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bfernald0 said:
While the insurer should no better, it never hurts to put them on notice to preserve everything.
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Funny, no pictures of the propeller end of the shaft or the prop itself in that report unless I missed it how convenient for them . How can-they focus on safety issues with in the engine room and never discuss the propeller itself which has a huge tear in it. If I was a lawyer I would have a field day with this report , the old bait and switch almost making it look like there’s so many improper items to discuss on your boat than the actual claim itself regarding the strike.Sign me up counselor I’m in!!
 
bfernald0 said:
In the interest of full disclosure, here's Progressive's survey. Insurers like experts that use big words and will find for the insurer reliably. This guy is well known for his insurance work. Notably, he has no engineering background, but has a lot of certifications. His theory that the area of most stress would be at the propeller end of the shaft has no basis in engineering, whatsoever. The area of greatest stress upon the propeller striking something, would be at the transmission end of the shaft, where the source of the continued torque (transmission) is located. Notably absent is any effort to

I am awaiting Progressive's letter affirming their claim decision, at which point I'll be filing a lawsuit. I will also be sending them a letter demanding that they preserve all documents relating to the claim.
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That was a fascinating read. Initially upon reading the report it's hard to not agree with the surveyor on the work you've had done, to some extent. The mismatched clamps, the unusual/misaligned exhaust setup, the not so marine looking fuel filter, it all feels a bit shade tree mechanic? Low hanging fruit for the insurance company backed surveyor no doubt.

Your assumption on the stresses and location of the fracture is not entirely accurate though. The load/stress must initially be greatest at the prop/propshaft connection if the prop were to impact something solid. The load/stress/strain then travels up the shaft to the hub/transmission end. There's no physical way for the load/stress to be greater at the transmission end than the prop end upon impact. How the loads are transferred to the keyway/shaft are probably quite different between the two ends but it's not because the loads are different.

Last thought - sell that boat! Now that the insurance company has documented (whether real or otherwise) electrical, fuel and raw water system risks I feel like you'd never be able to make a total loss claim on that thing. Shoot, based on your current experience even if you were run over by another boat they'd say it sank because of the poor clamping job on the exhaust tubes :)
 
So they got a guy from Missouri to survey a boat in S. Ca. in the middle of winter. I want that job. :)

He spent 10 pages trashing your boat before finally getting to the prop shaft. I would agree that there was possible metal fatigue -- but the impact is what caused the breakage. Otherwise, the tranny would have been trashed, no.
 
joeyleggz said:
Funny, no pictures of the propeller end of the shaft or the prop itself in that report unless I missed it how convenient for them . How can-they focus on safety issues with in the engine room and never discuss the propeller itself which has a huge tear in it. If I was a lawyer I would have a field day with this report , the old bait and switch almost making it look like there’s so many improper items to discuss on your boat than the actual claim itself regarding the strike.Sign me up counselor I’m in!!
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The surveyor was doing what he was paid to do - work to show a pattern of non-standard, and potentially "unsafe" repairs. They are trying to demonstrate that the boat was not properly maintained which, they claim, substantially contributed to the loss.
 
Flytrade said:
Best Boat Insurance Reviews has this to say about Progressive.
https://www.reviews.com/insurance/boat/best/
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Where is GFC? He taught me this years ago here. LOL

First off what does the review say? Best for small boat owners. Is the OP's vessel a small boat? No it is not.

If you have your "yacht certified" insured as a boat, no matter the company, you are doing it WRONG! Get yourself insured with a yacht policy ASAP. There is an enormous difference between boat and yacht policies.
 
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