Buying 2001 410DA 454 gas vs. Diesel

Far57

Far57

New Member
Apr 9, 2021
11
Boat Info
2005 Sea Ray 48 Sundancer
8.3 540 Diesel
Engines
8.3 540 Cummings VDrive
Finally took the big step and decided to place an offer on a 2001 410DA. I have owned in-land lake boats for years but wanted to switch from cottage to cruiser lifestyle. Enjoyed this lifestyle growing up with my parents boats. I owned a 22 Sea Ray years ago and always wanted another one. Been looking for awhile for a 36-38 DA. My Wife nudged me to go larger, so I settled in on a 410. I have two questions, my budget was limited and larger meant older. Also selected gas over diesel, mostly because the product simply hasn’t been there, especially fresh water boats. Is this a concern with the age of the boat? All I have read is diesel, diesel, diesel. But there are lots of gas DA out their. Am I setting myself up? Survey is next week. I am trying to find someone to look at engines also, Port Clinton area, any recommendations?
 
congratulations, we just bought our 410 as well. You'll love it. The power all depends on how you will use it and how far you'll go, we bought diesel because I plan on a lot of run time and travelling with it quite a bit. I know many with 400/410 gas that are quite happy with the performance. Make sure you're present for the sea trial and survey and you can get a feel for how the boat performs
 
100% of whether it'll be a good decision or not depends on where and how you boat. I've loved my boat for 10+ years as an inland cruiser however I wouldn't consider moving it to the coast for long distance cruising.

So how many miles and where will you be cruising in your new cruising lifestyle?
 
When we got our gas boat we ran about 100 hours a year. When we retired we went up to 300 hours a year. A diesel boat would have been more efficient but trading to a diesel would be 100K for us to get the same type of boat in as good as condition. The fuel saving would not make up the difference. If you plan on keeping the boat 20 years and running it 200 hours a year a diesel would be wise decision in my opinion.
 
I plan on mostly weekend trips on the Great Lakes. Not retired yet, but would love a few weeks a summer exploring. 100 hours maybe a season.

thanks for the quick response everyone.
 
Far57 said:
I plan on mostly weekend trips on the Great Lakes. Not retired yet, but would love a few weeks a summer exploring. 100 hours maybe a season.

thanks for the quick response everyone.
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Quick math. 100 hours at 25 miles per hour = 2,500 miles. You will get about 1 mpg with the diesel 410 and a little more than half that with the gas boat.

Annual diesel fuel usage = 2,500 gallons
Annual gas usage = 5,000 gallons

Lets say diesel is $3 this year. That's $7,500 of diesel/yr
Lets say gas is $4 this year. That's $20,000 of gas/yr

Yes, these are VERY rough numbers but if you are going to be running the great lakes for 100 hrs per year this is a no brainer.
 
Great lakes pirate said:
Quick math. 100 hours at 25 miles per hour = 2,500 miles. You will get about 1 mpg with the diesel 410 and a little more than half that with the gas boat.

Annual diesel fuel usage = 2,500 gallons
Annual gas usage = 5,000 gallons

Lets say diesel is $3 this year. That's $7,500 of diesel/yr
Lets say gas is $4 this year. That's $20,000 of gas/yr

Yes, these are VERY rough numbers but if you are going to be running the great lakes for 100 hrs per year this is a no brainer.
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Very rough indeed.... :)

The ole gasser will chug along at 35-38gph at cruise of 22/23kts. If you find a 400/410 DA gasser burning 50gph at 25mph you'll likely find a fishing net, dock, refridgerator or boat trailer dragging behind him.

2500 gallons of diesel vs 35/3800 gallons of gas, sure, that looks more realistic. 100 hours of on-plane running in a year? Not very realistic in the north. If you do a more reasonable comparison of a 100 hour year I think you'd find 50% or less of our time is spent on-plane at cruise speeds. When we're idling around we get very similar economy, splitting hairs at that point.

Once you de-rate the on-plane time, add-in the additional $20-30k upfront cost for a 20+ year old diesel, toss in an oil change, a few extra bottles of booze to cover the cramped engine room, you're very close to breaking even between these two power plants. Of course you get the upfront investment of diesels back, assuming you don't need to dump $20k into your turbo's or valves at some point :):)

Of course we all want diesels for one reason or another. But gas sure isn't so terrible...can be quite delightful, in fact.
 
Stee6043 said:
Of course we all want diesels for one reason or another. But gas sure isn't so terrible...can be quite delightful, in fact.
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I'd love to have diesels, but my reasons seem to be different than so many people assume. I've found the cruising data Stee posted to be easy to achieve, if not to beat. Over the years as my gassers have far exceeded the life that many people expect them to crumble, I've slowed my cruise speed. You can often find me barely above cruising speeds, listening to music and enjoying the ride while achieving economy that many people think I'm lying about.

...but I'm not on my way to an anchorage on a hot day to spend a hot night on the hook with the genny running. I won't do that with gas.

I'm also not on my way into a tight marina with lots of traffic and wind and or current without a raised heart rate. I know how to handle my boat, but I've HAD to, because when I say JUMP, she says, "did you say something?"

That's not to say a 400/410 gasser handles poorly. They're entirely predictable and over-all well mannered, they just don't jump.
 
Great lakes pirate said:
Quick math. 100 hours at 25 miles per hour = 2,500 miles. You will get about 1 mpg with the diesel 410 and a little more than half that with the gas boat.

Annual diesel fuel usage = 2,500 gallons
Annual gas usage = 5,000 gallons

Lets say diesel is $3 this year. That's $7,500 of diesel/yr
Lets say gas is $4 this year. That's $20,000 of gas/yr

Yes, these are VERY rough numbers but if you are going to be running the great lakes for 100 hrs per year this is a no brainer.
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Real world math:

1999 400DB w/7.4 Mercs vs 2000 400DB w/ Cat 3116s. Same basic model boat. They are docked across from each other.

The gas powered boat runs at 3,300 RPM burning 33 GPH @ 17 mph. Could go faster but would burn additional fuel.
The diesel powered boat runs at 2,400 RPM burning 22.6 GPH @ 23 mph.

So the diesel powered boat will go 2,300 miles in 100 hours and use 2,260 gallons of fuel.
The gas powered boat will need 135 hours to go the same 2,300 miles and will use 4,465 gallons of gasoline.

2,260 gallons of diesel @ $3 = $ $6,780
4,465 gallons of gasoline @ $4 = $17,858.82

A little over $11,000 difference....
 
RollerCoastr said:
I'm also not on my way into a tight marina with lots of traffic and wind and or current without a raised heart rate. I know how to handle my boat, but I've HAD to, because when I say JUMP, she says, "did you say something?"

That's not to say a 400/410 gasser handles poorly. They're entirely predictable and over-all well mannered, they just don't jump.
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Exactly! As Frank Webster told me... "Make sure a diesel powered boat is pointed where you want it to go before you put it into gear because as soon as it is in gear it is going where it is pointed..."
 
Great lakes pirate said:
I agree with you and RollerCoaster that if you are going to idle around lake Michigan for most of your summer then most definitely go with the gas boat. But, if you plan to cover some distance buy the diesel boat.
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But 2500 miles? Good god...how many times we going 'round the great lakes this year? :):)
 
3000 miles is Alaska and back for us. We go at 6 knots most of the time and burn 3000 gallons. We go fast perhaps 10% of the time to avoid bad weather. Average fuel cost for us is $5 CDN a gallon or $4 US. I can fix a gas engine I have no idea how to fix a diesel. Buy what you like. In general terms we find fuel is the least of our boating costs.
 
Great lakes pirate said:
Yeah, 2500 miles is a lot of ground to cover in one short season but we need to have goals, right?
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I come only from a place of my own reality. My best ever year was 88 hours on my 400. That included being on the boat every weekend May-October, most spent around our local harbor/lakes and two week long trips. One across Lake Michigan to Chicago and another to Leland, 100+ miles north. I covered a lot of Lake Michigan that year...or so I felt. I'd have to get my receipts but I'd imagine my full summer fuel bill was $7-8k. Not even remotely close to the numbers being tossed around here.

I just can't imagine someone non-commercial running anywhere near 100 hours at planning speeds in a year on the Great Lakes. You'd be doing laps around the lakes...all summer long :)
 
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