Looking for a 470 Or 44 Sedan Bridge with full PM records

Swimmer

Swimmer

Member
Aug 5, 2017
31
San Diego
Boat Info
Looking. Previously had a Sea Ray 340 with 8.1's.
Engines
Boatless
Gents,

These two bridge boats are at the top of our list. We may also consider a 44 or 420 Dancer, if we can't find the right bridge boat but we are not at that point yet.

I am looking for a very clean, Bristol boat where the owner had the required preventative maintenance per the Cummins manual over the life of the boat, and has records to back it up.

I realize well-maintained boats will have a premium, and I am willing to pay for it for the right boat.

I am currently targeting Southern California, but I will eventually open up my search to the rest of the West Coast. I will also look at out of state, in particular freshwater great lake boats, but I am somewhat reluctant to do that at this point due to the shipping costs and removal of the arch.

If you know of a boat owner who may be considering selling this fall who's boat Meets the noted criteria, please pass along my information to them. They can PM me.

Thanks, Swimmer in San Diego.
 
Swimmer,
Don't let the shipping costs keep you from looking around the Great Lakes. I bought my boat from Lake St. Clair, near Detroit.

Great Lake boats, being freshwater boats are generally in better shape because there's no salt to contend with, they have a short season (Memorial Day to Labor Day) and they're hauled out for the winter months, often stored in heated sheds.

I found that boats from that area are much less expensive than the ones you find on the west coast. Even after paying the shipping costs to get the boat here and for my trade-in boat back to Detroit, I figured I was saving enough to pay for about $50K in upgrades to the boat once I got it out here. .

People on the west coast must figure their boats are made of gold.
 
Gofirstclass said:
Swimmer,
Don't let the shipping costs keep you from looking around the Great Lakes. I bought my boat from Lake St. Clair, near Detroit.

Great Lake boats, being freshwater boats are generally in better shape because there's no salt to contend with, they have a short season (Memorial Day to Labor Day) and they're hauled out for the winter months, often stored in heated sheds.

I found that boats from that area are much less expensive than the ones you find on the west coast. Even after paying the shipping costs to get the boat here and for my trade-in boat back to Detroit, I figured I was saving enough to pay for about $50K in upgrades to the boat once I got it out here. .

People on the west coast must figure their boats are made of gold.
Click to expand...

Copy that GFC, and good to hear it worked out well for you. The lack of salt exposure is big, and something I am seriously considering if I cant find a local So-Cal boat. The removal of the arch, and its proper re-assembly back here in So-Cal has me a bit concerned though. Did you do a string on CSR regarding your relo? I would love to read it, including a rough estimate on the costs you incurred.
 
Swimmer said:
Gents,

These two bridge boats are at the top of our list. We may also consider a 44 or 420 Dancer, if we can't find the right bridge boat but we are not at that point yet.

I am looking for a very clean, Bristol boat where the owner had the required preventative maintenance per the Cummins manual over the life of the boat, and has records to back it up.

I realize well-maintained boats will have a premium, and I am willing to pay for it for the right boat.

I am currently targeting Southern California, but I will eventually open up my search to the rest of the West Coast. I will also look at out of state, in particular freshwater great lake boats, but I am somewhat reluctant to do that at this point due to the shipping costs and removal of the arch.

If you know of a boat owner who may be considering selling this fall who's boat Meets the noted criteria, please pass along my information to them. They can PM me.

Thanks, Swimmer in San Diego.
Click to expand...
My friend has a 2005 420DA for sale. You will never find a cleaner one, that's for sure! The only issue is it does not have a hard top.
 
HUMPH said:
My friend has a 2005 420DA for sale. You will never find a cleaner one, that's for sure! The only issue is it does not have a hard top.
Click to expand...

Ken, thanks for the lead, but we are targeting the 470 and 44 Bridge boats for now. Our past two boats have been EC's, so we want to give the Bridge a shot. In the future we may modify that plan and start looking at the DA's. If no good leads show up in the next two months (an owner who can produce solid records for the life of the boat, and every Cummins service done as required by the manual), we may order a new trawler with a single engine (Cummins 480).

Side note - I realize finding a boat like this is rare, and I am being lectured by Brokers and others that my expectations are unrealistic. That may be the case, but I don't plan on compromising for the amount of $ involved in the purchase. I know a lot of people have found great 45 ft diesel boats with minimal past PM's, and they are working fine after they do a lot of past services that were not done. I just don't want to go down that down path.
 
Swimmer, CSR member "Football Fan" had a 470 that he sold. You may want to speak with him regarding his experience with that model? He took meticulous care of his! It was beautiful. Good luck. JC
 
JC3 said:
Swimmer, CSR member "Football Fan" had a 470 that he sold. You may want to speak with him regarding his experience with that model? He took meticulous care of his! It was beautiful. Good luck. JC
Click to expand...

Thanks JC. I am having trouble using the search function for members, but I will give it a go again. How has the boating season been treating you in the South?
 
Regarding "Footballfan" aka Mark, I would recommend PM him. He will be a wealth of knowledge on that model boat. Also Capt. Rusty Higgins would be a great help as well.
I know FrankW helped Mark during the purchasing process. That is 3 i would call experts that would know that boat well! If you do not get a response to your post from them
in a couple of days go to the General Discussion forum and post a little more specific question about the models your interested in. It wont take long for owners past and present to respond. I sold the 450DA last July and have been sick about it. Have had fun looking for the next boat though. Will be in the 28-32 foot range. I really want to stay with the Sea Ray brand but i do not think I will be able to which makes me very sad! Good luck Swimmer I hope you find the perfect boat for you and your family. JC
 
JC3 said:
Regarding "Footballfan" aka Mark, I would recommend PM him. He will be a wealth of knowledge on that model boat. Also Capt. Rusty Higgins would be a great help as well.
I know FrankW helped Mark during the purchasing process. That is 3 i would call experts that would know that boat well! If you do not get a response to your post from them
in a couple of days go to the General Discussion forum and post a little more specific question about the models your interested in. It wont take long for owners past and present to respond. I sold the 450DA last July and have been sick about it. Have had fun looking for the next boat though. Will be in the 28-32 foot range. I really want to stay with the Sea Ray brand but i do not think I will be able to which makes me very sad! Good luck Swimmer I hope you find the perfect boat for you and your family. JC
Click to expand...

Morning JC, I spoke to Mark last night and he was very helpful. A good man.
 
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I can appreciate the desire for documentation at the time of purchase but are you going to let the lack of documentation prevent you from finding the perfect boat? Someone could document every minute of runtime and service it to the letter of the manual and still run the absolute piss out of the boat. I feel like you need to build relationships with world class surveyors and let them be your guide.

I know guys that run their boats at full throttle 80% of the time.....but they sure do change their oil twice as much as I do!

Good luck in your search either way. We have lots of nice boats up here in the Great Lakes.....take a road trip!
 
Swimmer said:
Ken, thanks for the lead, but we are targeting the 470 and 44 Bridge boats for now. Our past two boats have been EC's, so we want to give the Bridge a shot. In the future we may modify that plan and start looking at the DA's. If no good leads show up in the next two months (an owner who can produce solid records for the life of the boat, and every Cummins service done as required by the manual), we may order a new trawler with a single engine (Cummins 480).

Side note - I realize finding a boat like this is rare, and I am being lectured by Brokers and others that my expectations are unrealistic. That may be the case, but I don't plan on compromising for the amount of $ involved in the purchase. I know a lot of people have found great 45 ft diesel boats with minimal past PM's, and they are working fine after they do a lot of past services that were not done. I just don't want to go down that down path.
Click to expand...

Note that the 420 and 44 Sedan are essentially the same boat. The 2005 420 became the 2006 44, then the 450 in 2010 (but a new 450 was introduced in 2011 as a 2012 model). There are changes along the way each year, of course, but from 2004 to 2010 the boat was essentially the same. I have been scouring the specs, options, and user manuals since I happen to be looking for one as well!! Best of luck in your hunt!
 
Stee,

You have some valid points but that is how I want to approach it. A boat with full PM's may have ended up on a sand bar or been through some other event they managed to cover up. Lots of unknowns when buying a 10 year old boat.

I would counter and say that an owner that is doing full PM's is more likely to be conscientious as to how he/she is operating their boat in regards to causing harm to their engines.

Also, I don't have an issue with someone going at 80% as you noted. These engines can handle it. I am more concerned about a boat with an average of 10 -20 hours per year, and for all I know they did it all at 8 knots.

Baj, copy that, I also read through the specs and the different models/years. Good luck with your search.
 
I'd prefer to see a full maintenance record on a boat I am considering. But due dilligence on a boat is the buyer's responsibility; not the seller's or the broker's. You have to be reasonable in your expectations and apply some common sense to your due dilligence. For example, most of these engines have a long oil change interval....like 250 hours or annually. If the seller has no record, but the oil samples come back clean with normal wear metals and low contamination and the engine survey says "clean bill of health", I am not going to back away because the maintenance record is not available.

What is really important is the "REQUIRED" maintenance in the factory maintenance schedule. But not having proof of its being done still isn't a reason to back off. As in the prior paragraph, if the oil sampling and survey are ok, then just discount the boat by enough to have, say, the valves adjusted or the coolers cleaned and serviced, then do the missed maintenance after you buy the boat.

Narrowing your scope to only those boat with a service record can eliminate a lot of great boats because there are valid reasons for missing maintenance records on a boat. For example: I am looking over the shoulder of another CSR member's boat search right now. When he and his wife looked at the boat, it was a "10". You can not tell it from a new boat....the interior looks and smells like the day it left the factory. It is a salt water boat but far cleaner than the freshwater boats he looked at. On the boat there was a spreadsheet detailing the service history thru about December 2015, but nothing later than that for what amounted to 1/3 of the boat's life. The buyer never slowed down. In the discussions with the broker, it became apparent that the boat was very seriously for sale. The seller took the first offer and after the boat was under contract, it came out that the seller was suffering from terminal brain cancer, had only a few days/weeks left, and just didn't want to leave the boat for his wife to deal with. If we had not been realistic and understanding about the missing maintenance record, the buyer would have missed a nearly perfect boat, one whose mechanical survey was perfect and the oil samples were as clean as I've ever seen. The sale closed last week and the boat will be on her way to her new home next week. The buyer plans to post his boat search/purchase story here hen he can, so stay tuned because it is a classic example of how to find and negotiate for the boat of your dreams without compromise.
 
fwebster said:
I'd prefer to see a full maintenance record on a boat I am considering. But due dilligence on a boat is the buyer's responsibility; not the seller's or the broker's. You have to be reasonable in your expectations and apply some common sense to your due dilligence. For example, most of these engines have a long oil change interval....like 250 hours or annually. If the seller has no record, but the oil samples come back clean with normal wear metals and low contamination and the engine survey says "clean bill of health", I am not going to back away because the maintenance record is not available.

What is really important is the "REQUIRED" maintenance in the factory maintenance schedule. But not having proof of its being done still isn't a reason to back off. As in the prior paragraph, if the oil sampling and survey are ok, then just discount the boat by enough to have, say, the valves adjusted or the coolers cleaned and serviced, then do the missed maintenance after you buy the boat.

Narrowing your scope to only those boat with a service record can eliminate a lot of great boats because there are valid reasons for missing maintenance records on a boat. For example: I am looking over the shoulder of another CSR member's boat search right now. When he and his wife looked at the boat, it was a "10". You can not tell it from a new boat....the interior looks and smells like the day it left the factory. It is a salt water boat but far cleaner than the freshwater boats he looked at. On the boat there was a spreadsheet detailing the service history thru about December 2015, but nothing later than that for what amounted to 1/3 of the boat's life. The buyer never slowed down. In the discussions with the broker, it became apparent that the boat was very seriously for sale. The seller took the first offer and after the boat was under contract, it came out that the seller was suffering from terminal brain cancer, had only a few days/weeks left, and just didn't want to leave the boat for his wife to deal with. If we had not been realistic and understanding about the missing maintenance record, the buyer would have missed a nearly perfect boat, one whose mechanical survey was perfect and the oil samples were as clean as I've ever seen. The sale closed last week and the boat will be on her way to her new home next week. The buyer plans to post his boat search/purchase story here hen he can, so stay tuned because it is a classic example of how to find and negotiate for the boat of your dreams without compromise.
Click to expand...

Frank, thanks for the input. You have the past experience and expertise with diesels, so I appreciate the insight. I have read a lot of your posts, and know you have provided great advise to a lot of CSR members over the years. I will adjust my expectations.
 
i am looking at 2-3 year old boats and half don't have any maintenance records to share. i can only imagine an older boat. with the proper knowledge (or survey + mechanical inspection) you can get a good sense as to the condition of the boat, engines, systems, mechanicals, etc.
 
We pulled the plug and decided to go with a new build trawler, single engine Cummins, 6.7. A trawler was our eventual long term plan, so we just moved it up. Definitely our last boat as we get closer to retirement.

Thanks for the feedback. Had some good conversations on here about Sea Rays, engines, etc.

Hope everyone exposed to these Hurricanes are holding up. Brutal storms and a lot of misery out there. A reminder of what is important in life.
 
Swimmer, What did you decide to get(type of trawler, etc...)? JC
 
What's most important is making a choice that you feel good about and that suits your needs.

There is no silver bullet that is perfect.

As we are searching for our next boat - we find it is an endless series of compromises - most often our requirements vs budget.

There comes a point where you just want to be on the water.

Congrats on your decision - may you have many happy boating days - calms seas - and over the frustration of boat shopping.

Mark
 
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