300 Sundancer moisture readings

[newtoSeaRay]

Hi there,
We are new to boating and have started reading your CSR forums as we have a pending offer on a 1988 Sea Ray Sundancer 300. We have had a marine survey completed on the boat and are confused about the findings related to moisture content. The survey found high levels of moisture in the following locations:

A)Two inboard hull stringer cores
B)Transom between two outdrives
C)Around the stanchion bases
D) Along the port side of the port grab rail on the fore deck
The sounding of A,B,C,D suggested that core areas were sound

E) Mid-cabin berth sub floor and forward bulkhead
F)Anchor lock hatch
G) Around forward deck hatch
The sounding of E,F & G suggested early stages of core deterioration

The surveyor commented that “structurally the boat appeared in good condition with no visible gel coat blistering or damage and that the high moisture readings are common for a boat of this vintage”.
The Mercruiser 5.7L engines and Alpha drives have 640 hours and the boat appears to be in good condition with all interior finishes looking like new.

We have offered $31,000 CAD for the boat.
Is this a good deal? How long will the boat likely last before it needs major structural work? We intend to maintain the boat and seal all deck hardware etc. as recommended by the surveyor?
Comments would be appreciated.

 

[Cocktail Time]

I am certainly no expert on your question, but a little more info could go a long way to help guide you. If you have the moisture readings for each area somebody is bound to give you a more relative opinion. Also, if you can give some more info on the boat itself that would help you get a better overall answer on whether this is a good deal...

Salt or Freshwater boat?
Raw or closed water cooling?
Generator?
AC/Heat?
Other survey findings?

Hope this will prompt some more informed folks to help you out. Best of luck...

Dan

 

[newtoSeaRay]

The surveyor has not provided us with the actual moisture readings. The boat has only been in fresh water (Great lakes). Raw water cooled. No generator. AC included. Lowrance depth finder. Garmin GPS.

Other comments in the survey: Cloth and vinyl is in good condition. Full camper top is starting to show signs of normal wear and tear (faded, stitching starting to fail). Exterior finish in good condition free of nicks, scratches and abrasions. Engines were given a visual check only but appear clean and in good condition.

We are going to have a mechanic look at the engines later this week.

Jamie

 

[keokie]

It sounds like the boat already has begun to suffer from core rot around the forward hatch and the other moisture readings means more is on the way soon. If you have ever tried to chase core rot out of a boat, you know the tremendous risk you would be taking. I wouldn't buy the boat period.... especially, in this market. There are plenty of boats out there in great condition that can be bought very well.

 

[creik]

hi there.
you may be heading for trouble that you dont want.
i just backed out of a 2001 400db because of moisture issues, and i have spent 6 months researching and educating myself.
i think you need more info to make a determination of the big picture. call sea ray corporate and ask to speak to one of their hull/fiberglass folks. i have found them to be extremely helpful.
i would be happy to talk to you in more detail. pm me if interested.
chris

 

[tobnpr]

I did not have moisture readings done on my 390 before purchase, and did have a couple of "surprises" that my surveyor and myself missed. Fortunately nothing major, but when I went to replace the windlass I found the entire core of the pulpit was missing. Not rotted- past that point- it was GONE. It was a PITA to work through the access without removing the forward bulkhead, but I got the repair done fairly easily using Starboard as a replacement instead of wood/glass. I also have an area of rot under the last rail stanchion which I have yet to repair.

High readings in the transom and stringers are much more problematic and difficult to repair. They may be structurally sound now, as they are wet but rot has not yet set in.
It is possible these areas can be dried-out, but that too may be a difficult process. If it were a couple of minor areas I might look at buying the boat, but in today's market I'd walk away and look for another one.

 

[Pakmule]

I agree with everyone else. There are too many boats out there and too many motivated sellers to get into a boat with structural issues. That moisture got there somehow.

 

[penbroke]

Walk away...


Frank

 

[sbw1]

I owned a 1986 SR WEr which is essentially the same hull as the 88 DAr you are looking at. Our boat was purchased new and well cared for. We owned it for 8 years and the new owner experienced stringer rot in year 10. We learned from that experience that the SR build quality of that era were not very good and that the hulls were very prone to rot in the areas where you are getting high moisture readings. This was particularly true of fresh water boats. For all of its problem causing properties, salt water seems to discourage rot. Fresh water is good for other issues but very bad for rot. There are many good, sound 30 foot boats from that era. However, most of them are probably lift kept or trailer kept. It would be unusual to find a wet slipped boat from the Great Lakes from that era that is free of issues.

 

[JVM225]

First, you are looking at a great boat. I have an 87 300 Dancer that I bought last year and it is an outstanding family boat. I just think that aside from the other issues, you might be paying a little too much for the boat.
Let me give you an idea of what I mean:
Mine is in pretty nice shape and only needed a few pretty minor things. The Strainer for the A/C needed replacement and it now works perfectly. I had to change a float switch on the bilge pump beneath the aft berth, and reseat the seal on the fridge. There were a few other little odds and ends and a little clean up work, but that was about it. I also recovered the forward berth cushions last summer, and did the aft cabin ones this past winter. The originals were serviceable, but had twenty years of wear on them and were very dated. The cabin carpet is serviceable but showing its age, it is on my list of things to do.
The starboard motor is original and was rebuilt in 2002, the port motor was replaced by a Sea Ray dealer in 2003. It doesn't have a camper back, but the canvas was new in May of 2006. The mainifolds were also replaced in May of 2006. I changed two of the three batteries as soon as I got the boat.
I paid $12,000 US for the boat last season. The sellers were asking for $18,000 and I offered them $12,000. They were getting divorced and knew that the prices of used boats were dropping rapidly so they decided to take my offer rather than risk being stuck with a boat that neither one of them had any interest in keeping. I walked away feeling like I got a really good deal on what was basically a good boat that just needed a little attention because it had been neglected for a while because of their personal problems.
There are plenty of stories and deals like that out there. You may not be able to get one for what I paid, but you can buy nice ones of that vintage around here all day long for 17,000 or 18,000 US.
The 300 Dancer is an excellent family cruiser, but I would hold off on the one you're looking at and wait for a better deal to come along.

 

[tobnpr]

We learned from that experience that the SR build quality of that era were not very good

I would have to take exception to that, unless my 1985 is an aberration. I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the build quality since purchasing a year and a half ago. Her 20+ year old gelcoat can still shine like new; very few stress cracks, and limited water intrusion into the coring.
Most, if not all, of the problems we're discussing can- and usually are- caused by less then knowledgeable owners.
Keep the bilge dry!! No water= no rot. It's not rocket science, and there's no reason to have a wet bilge, especially since the advent of dripless seals.
Drill a hole into a cored hull, and not use sealant, or some cheap silicone that might last a year, guess what's going to happen?
Yes, there are some design issues- leaky windows are notorious for SR's of this vintage. But it's only when the owners ignore the problem- and let the leak persist- that permanent damage is done; and there's "issues" with every boat...

 

[sbw1]

You are using 20/20 hindsight. My boat was new and no one knew that the limber holes were not sealed properly. My boat was very well cared for. There were plenty of 8-9 year old boats with stringer rot. Dripless shafts were not common in those days on production boats. Some banks around here stopped lending on used Sea Rays because of the rot problem. I'm talking structure problems not gel coat. My 30 WEr still looked brand new when it was 10 but required expensive repairs. The 93 that followed it was also brand new. As soon as I found out that it was built the same way, I glassed the limber holes and added dripless shafts. I sweated the survey when I sold it but it passed with flying colors. It had the usual leaks but no rot. Other owners of 93s were beginning to experience problems with rot, but as people became aware of the problem, particularly with fresh water boats, corrective actions were taken. I alway rebedded rails, did the maintenance, etc., but there were issues related to quality. SR was not alone.

 

[newtoSeaRay]

Thanks to everyone who provided input. We have walked away from the 88 300 Sundancer.

We now have an offer accepted on a 1994 300 Sundancer and have met with a surveyor who confirmed it has low moisture readings. The final sale is pending a water test with the surveyor. The 5.7L mercruiser engines have 780 hours on them and look to be in good condition. I don't expect to have any major issues and hope to be on the water by the end of the month. The boat has AC but does not have a generator or windlass. The owner has accepted $37,000. Any comments?

 

[comsnark]

You don't have to RUN away. . .but you should walk away.

 

[sbw1]

Thanks to everyone who provided input. We have walked away from the 88 300 Sundancer.

We now have an offer accepted on a 1994 300 Sundancer and have met with a surveyor who confirmed it has low moisture readings. The final sale is pending a water test with the surveyor. The 5.7L mercruiser engines have 780 hours on them and look to be in good condition. I don't expect to have any major issues and hope to be on the water by the end of the month. The boat has AC but does not have a generator or windlass. The owner has accepted $37,000. Any comments?

Assume you have I/Os since this is a Sundancer. You will have drier bilges which probably explains the improved moisture readings. Unless a prior owner glassed the limber holes you are still vulnerable to the rot issue and the holes should be glassed. The transoms on these boats are also suspect around the drain plug, so make sure that is tight and properly bedded. Still a dry 88 boat sounds pretty good. Just make sure you keep it that way.