40 sedan bridge forum

Would a battery isolator going bad create a problem such as this? I ask because I have no experience with them.
 

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techmitch said:
Sorry I missed the part about the battery isolator. I'll take a look ASAP. In the mean time, if you are working on it now, temporally take it out of the loop and recheck operation.
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Not there now, going back in the am. I understand they work primarily off of diodes, and I wouldn't doubt this one is original to the boat (1999).

I thought of removing from the system as well and checking. I honestly (for me) don't see the purpose of having this system, I always run with the geset running which keeps the batteries charged. Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

Thanks for the help.
 
CaptRonn said:
Not there now, going back in the am. I understand they work primarily off of diodes, and I wouldn't doubt this one is original to the boat (1999).

I thought of removing from the system as well and checking. I honestly (for me) don't see the purpose of having this system, I always run with the geset running which keeps the batteries charged. Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
The 2001 and later don't have the battery isolator. Each engine is totally electrically independent (except for the crossover relay). Each battery bank can only be charged by a leg of the battery charger or that engines alternator. My boat is like this but it's DC wiring diagram still showed the battery isolator. So I contacted Sea Ray and got an updated wiring diagram that matched my boat. At that time the Sea Ray rep told me they removed the isolator because of the intelligence of the newer battery charges of that time.
 
ZZ13 said:
The 2001 and later don't have the battery isolator. Each engine is totally electrically independent (except for the crossover relay). Each battery bank can only be charged by a leg of the battery charger or that engines alternator. My boat is like this but it's DC wiring diagram still showed the battery isolator. So I contacted Sea Ray and got an updated wiring diagram that matched my boat. At that time the Sea Ray rep told me they removed the isolator because of the intelligence of the newer battery charges of that time.
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That's what I was thinking. I'm leaning towards just removing it.
 
CaptRonn said:
Not there now, going back in the am. I understand they work primarily off of diodes, and I wouldn't doubt this one is original to the boat (1999).

I thought of removing from the system as well and checking. I honestly (for me) don't see the purpose of having this system, I always run with the geset running which keeps the batteries charged. Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
Yup you are correct they use diodes to prevent current from traveling between the two battery banks yet allow a single bank charger to charge both banks. The downfall is a single bank charger (like the Mastervolt on the 58DB) can only monitor one bank and if it is fully charged the charger will go to float regardless of the condition of the other battery bank. Also, there is a 0.6 volt drop across the diode bank which further creates some challenges; that 0.6V loss goes to heat.
So, the fix I would do is to round file the isolator then install a multi-bank charger/converter directly to the charger circuit breakers in the Main Breaker Panel. Then install between the two battery banks an Automatic Charging Relay (ACR). You would now have the capability to charge and monitor each battery bank independently plus in the event of the loss of charging capability on one side the ACR kicks in and charges the bank via the other bank....
 
ttmott said:
Yup you are correct they use diodes to prevent current from traveling between the two battery banks yet allow a single bank charger to charge both banks. The downfall is a single bank charger (like the Mastervolt on the 58DB) can only monitor one bank and if it is fully charged the charger will go to float regardless of the condition of the other battery bank. Also, there is a 0.6 volt drop across the diode bank which further creates some challenges; that 0.6V loss goes to heat.
So, the fix I would do is to round file the isolator then install a multi-bank charger/converter directly to the charger circuit breakers in the Main Breaker Panel. Then install between the two battery banks an Automatic Charging Relay (ACR). You would now have the capability to charge and monitor each battery bank independently plus in the event of the loss of charging capability on one side the ACR kicks in and charges the bank via the other bank....
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Thanks for the reply.

Why not just let each engine charge it's own battery, then let the charger keep the house battery charged?

My boat is used for day trips only and is never taken far from home. The house battery is hooked in parallel with the starboard engine battery. With the set up of each engine having it's own battery, an emergency start function plus a genset I always keep running, I can't see the situation where needing an elaborate setup to keep batteries charged.

My battery charger is an Abso 12V 40A.
 
CaptRonn said:
Thanks for the reply.

Why not just let each engine charge it's own battery, then let the charger keep the house battery charged?

My boat is used for day trips only and is never taken far from home. The house battery is hooked in parallel with the starboard engine battery. With the set up of each engine having it's own battery, an emergency start function plus a genset I always keep running, I can't see the situation where needing an elaborate setup to keep batteries charged.

My battery charger is an Abso 12V 40A.
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Because you would have nothing keeping both banks at float 95% of the boat's life at the dock which is directly related to a battery's life. In my opinion, for what that matters, redundancy in the boat's battery system is directly related to the safe use of the boat and consequently I have those systems configured as such. But everyone perceives these things differently.... Keep your Sea Tow card handy...
 
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ttmott said:
Because you would have nothing keeping both banks at float 95% of the time at the dock which is directly related to a battery's life. In my opinion, for what that matters, redundancy in the boat's battery system is directly related to the safe use of the boat and consequently I have those systems configured as such. But everyone perceives these things differently....
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At dock, the boat is on shore power, so the house battery is being charged. The engine batteries and the generator batteries are charged because I run the engines and genset every week.

If I just let my boat sit idle for weeks on end, I could see it.

I appreciate the insight and suggestion, just looking at my options going forward. Going to test the battery isolator today.
 
techmitch said:
Sorry I missed the part about the battery isolator. I'll take a look ASAP. In the mean time, if you are working on it now, temporally take it out of the loop and recheck operation.
Click to expand...

The more I look at the wiring diagram, the less I'm inclines to think my problem is with the isolator. I'm going to start pulling all of the grounds and cleaning them. I'm also thinking I can swap the battery connections from starboard to port and see if the problem follows it. Right now when I energized the starboard ignition I get zero. So my logic is if I move it to the port side, it should follow which would indicate a grounding issue.

And I didn't add that this all started when my starboard battery died, not sure if that contributed or not.
 
CaptRonn said:
At dock, the boat is on shore power, so the house battery is being charged. The engine batteries and the generator batteries are charged because I run the engines and genset every week.

If I just let my boat sit idle for weeks on end, I could see it.

I appreciate the insight and suggestion, just looking at my options going forward. Going to test the battery isolator today.
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Consider also that there are critical systems (primary and emergency bilge pumps) on both battery banks. One would hate to find out a leak occurred and the pumps killed the battery bank not on a charger then the domino's start to fall...
 
ttmott said:
Consider also that there are critical systems (primary and emergency bilge pumps) on both battery banks. One would hate to find out a leak occurred and the pumps killed the battery bank not on a charger then the domino's start to fall...
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OK, good points.

Just got off the phone with Rick at SR tech support. Heading out to do some trouble shooting this morning.
 
Have you taken a meter to the backside of the battery switch, to the power connection at the starter, to the backside of the cabin main breaker on the battery switch panel?

I think it may just be semantics but we do not have separate starboard engine start and "house" (cabin main) batteries. It's just one big battery bank doing both with double the normal current because of it consisting of two batteries in parallel. I couldn't tell from your post if you were aware of that. Well maybe I am wrong for your boat. But that's how it is from the factory on my 2001.
 
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Also, why did you change out the emergency start solenoid? Are you sure it's wired properly and the right solenoid? Generally for me when something quits working after I change something out, it's associated with what I changed out or how I changed it out.
 
ZZ13 said:
Also, why did you change out the emergency start solenoid? Are you sure it's wired properly and the right solenoid? Generally for me when something quits working after I change something out, it's associated with what I changed out or how I changed it out.
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It looked original, very corroded and wasn't working. This was before the problem I have now.

Solenoids are very simple devices, not much to them. I've changed out dozens over the years in cars, airplanes and helicopters.
 
ZZ13 said:
Have you taken a meter to the backside of the battery switch, to the power connection at the starter, to the backside of the cabin main breaker on the battery switch panel?

I think it may just be semantics but we do not have separate starboard engine start and "house" (cabin main) batteries. It's just one big battery bank doing both with double the normal current because of it consisting of two batteries in parallel. I couldn't tell from your post if you were aware of that. Well maybe I am wrong for your boat. But that's how it is from the factory on my 2001.
Click to expand...

Your boat is different from mine in that regard. Mine is a 1999 and gas, yours is later model and diesel.
 
CaptRonn said:
Your boat is different from mine in that regard. Mine is a 1999 and gas, yours is later model and diesel.
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Roger that. I checked on your profile first but didn't see an engine listing. Guess I should have asked that question first. Good luck!
 
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