40 sedan bridge forum

Last week I posted that I added packing to my starboard rudder nut. Today, I took a shot at the port rudder nut as it was also leaking. First I relocated the battery charger about 6 inches higher to give me room underneath it to reach for the nut. Then I removed the two port batteries (after first turning off the battery charger and the port battery switch). I was able to fit in that area lying parallel to the stern and push my right shoulder all the way up to the opening under the bulkhead. My arm was then easily able to reach the nut from there. So, I did all the work with my right arm/hand and used my left hand to hold a flashlight and to hand things to my right hand. Took me about two hours end to end. I was able to fit two new rings in there. So both my rudder nuts now have a bunch of old crap packed into the top of the nut and two fresh new rings below that. Hopefully, that will work out for a bunch of years. It was a tight squeeze between the Racor and the generator. I am 5' 10", 165lbs. Here are some pictures:

Port nut before breaking free the locking nut:
IMG_0942_zpstozwprlx.jpg


Port nut after adding new packing. Lots of threads now for future tightening:
IMG_0944_zpsvonyavgh.jpg


Port batteries removed:
IMG_0943_zpsn814hdnr.jpg
 
What great fall cruising weather. If you are not out, you should be. This weekend I was anchored in a cove having a cold one with a friend and I kept hearing a pump kick on. It sounded like the fresh water pump, but not sure. The next morning I checked the fresh water level and it showed only a 1/4 full. I had filled it up before heading out. During the course of the day, night, and next morning the toilets were used several times and two showers were taken. Would this use that much water? Is that pump I heard pumping water out of my tank? Where do I start when looking for a problem?

When I heard the pump running during the day, nothing was running other than the AC. I heard it several times.

Keith
 
Keith, I would check the forward bilge under the guest berth to see if water is leaking or being pumped into the bilge space just I front of the engine room bulkhead. Next I would check the forward bilge area in the ER to make sure no water is collecting there. Lastly I would check the rear bilge in the ER. Hopefully all areas are dry. My thoughts are that the water pumps or the hot water heater is leaking, causing the pumps to cycle that you are hearing to keep pressure in the system. The rear bilge area would be wet as that would be where the water will drain to. If you turn off the fresh water pumps at the panel and run the sink faucet to alleviate pressure in the lines, you should be able to tell if the cycling noise continues. If so, stick your head over the starboard side and watch for the cycling to kick back on and determine if sump pumps are spurting water out one of the discharge lines. If so, then you have a water leak somewhere other than caused by the pressurized system. Have to trace it back from where the water is collecting in one of the bilge areas. Hope this helps, good luck.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Keith, in addition to Prosideus suggestions, do you know where the pump sound came from and how loud it was, and how long it ran? All the sinks, the showers and the a/c condensate drain into one box which is located under the floor of the hallway. That has a pump and a float switch in it which pumps the water out as that sump box fills. Generally you may not hear it turn on when a shower is running as the shower will mask the noise. But you can hear it turn on when the sinks drain or the a/c condensate triggers the float switch. This pump pushes the water out the starboard middle side of the boat just above where the air conditioner cooling water exits the boat. Hopefully that is the pump that you were hearing. The freshwater pumps make a much louder, kinda grinding noise.

Regarding the water usage. You can be almost 1/2 full and still read 1/4. And FULL may not have been completely full. So its possible you didn't use as much water as you think. Its really hard to say if you unknowingly lost water or not. Depends on how long you ran the showers, how many times the sinks were turned on, etc.
 
Hi all,
I am in the process of buying a 1998 400DB with CAT3116 350HP engines. The seller gave me a copy of a recent survey (I will also conduct my own survey if we can reach an agreed upon price) and it says that during a trial run, the boat acheived the following:

PORT ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

STARBOARD ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

NOTE: SPEEDS ACQUIRED PER GPS were @ 2700: 17.5 Kts; 2900 RPM: 23.1 Kts.; 3200 RPM: 24.9 Kts.

Can this boat really hit 3200 RPM? That seems really high. I thought the engine would blow up at that RPM. My surveyor thought that was odd too. I have yet to do a trial run myself, but I'm curious to see what kind of numbers I'll get.

Thanks for any input.
 
I have the same engines 2 years older. To my knowledge the engines are topped out at 2800 rpm. I do approximately 24 kts wot. Someone else can chime in, but I don't think the engines should reach 200 degrees. You should be getting 18 kts at 2350 rpm. Of course 2 years may be different. On a side note, I love my 400DB.

Hi all,
I am in the process of buying a 1998 400DB with CAT3116 350HP engines. The seller gave me a copy of a recent survey (I will also conduct my own survey if we can reach an agreed upon price) and it says that during a trial run, the boat acheived the following:

PORT ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

STARBOARD ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

NOTE: SPEEDS ACQUIRED PER GPS were @ 2700: 17.5 Kts; 2900 RPM: 23.1 Kts.; 3200 RPM: 24.9 Kts.

Can this boat really hit 3200 RPM? That seems really high. I thought the engine would blow up at that RPM. My surveyor thought that was odd too. I have yet to do a trial run myself, but I'm curious to see what kind of numbers I'll get.

Thanks for any input.
 
Cwiert, what pitch props are on that boat? Everything I read about the 350hp 3116 when I was buying my boat, was that the boat should be propped to achieve a 2800-2850rpm WOT and cruise at 2400-2450rpm. Boat might be underpropped. 200 degrees seems like its running too hard for the coolant system to keep up. How many hours on the boat and how long have they been running it in this configuration?

But maybe everything is OK (I am not an expert at all), I'd try to PM fwebster and get his take on it (if he doesn't see your post in here first).
 
Cwiert, what pitch props are on that boat? Everything I read about the 350hp 3116 when I was buying my boat, was that the boat should be propped to achieve a 2800-2850rpm WOT and cruise at 2400-2450rpm. Boat might be underpropped. 200 degrees seems like its running too hard for the coolant system to keep up. How many hours on the boat and how long have they been running it in this configuration?

But maybe everything is OK (I am not an expert at all), I'd try to PM fwebster and get his take on it (if he doesn't see your post in here first).

Thanks for the replies. According to the same old survey (from April 2015), the props are bronze, 4-blade, 22"x24".

I'm not sure how long the boat has run like this. But the engines only have 380 hours on them. It was a corporate owned boat until this past April. The buyer from this past April has a new job elsewhere and is forced to sell.

I will do my own survey and sea trial, but I was just wondering if those cruise and WOT #s were typical. Seems they are not. Are those the correct props?
 
Thanks for the replies. According to the same old survey (from April 2015), the props are bronze, 4-blade, 22"x24".

I'm not sure how long the boat has run like this. But the engines only have 380 hours on them. It was a corporate owned boat until this past April. The buyer from this past April has a new job elsewhere and is forced to sell.

I will do my own survey and sea trial, but I was just wondering if those cruise and WOT #s were typical. Seems they are not. Are those the correct props?
I have 22x24 on mine with 430HP Cummins. I sea trailed a 300HP 3116 version that also had 22x24 but clearly needed to go down to 22x23 (could only get 2500rpm WOT). Seems like you have the right size for those engines. I think that is the size they put on at the factory based on my parts manual. So, I am now out of my league trying to explain the high RPM and temp at WOT.
 
Last edited:
I'm now leaning towards thinking it's an error in the report. Either that or maybe the sea conditions had something to do with it. Here's the into to the sea trial report:

The vessel was operated on an estuary to the bay area of Avalon Point. Conditions were nasty high winds of 40+knots, full cloud cover, cold temps in the low 40's, choppy sea conditions.




OBSERVATIONS:
The engines started without excessive cranking.


The engine exhaust appeared normal.
The cooling water exhaust appeared adequate and normal.
The engine instruments operate within normal operating limits at idle, cruising speed, and maximum throttle.Manufacturer's recommended max RPM is 2800 per engine mounted tag
Engines reached 3200 RPM at full throttle.
The steering system operated normally.
The throttles operated normally.
The transmissions operated normally/smoothly.
The back down test was satisfactory.

There were no excessive vibrations noted.
The engine synchronizer was NOT tested, autopilot was NOT tested, the trim tabs operated normally.There were no oil or coolant leaks observed. (On main engines or in exhaust water)



The water temperature is in Fahrenheit. The oil pressure is in pounds per square inch. Revs refers to revolutions per minute. Batts arein volts of charge from the alternator. These figures are comprised of data read from the vessels gauges while underway on the abovestated date and time of the sea trial.
 
I think its probable the 3200rpm was from a static load test where they ran to WOT in neutral at the dock. That could get you to that RPM level. But still wouldn't explain the 200 degree engine temp. Maybe that's some kind of typo. I like your idea to just do your own performance test and see what you get.
 
It may also be possible that the RPM gauges are just wrong. I know I can tap on mine and they can jump around substantially. Make sure you get a good tach reading that you can trust and not just from the gauges at the helm. I run the 22x24 props and 2800 is the rpm. If those engines are truly turning 3200 there is something really wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Flounder Pounder sells a direct replacement latch if you just want to get a new one that works correctly. However, they also sell a version with a handle. Their website says it only takes adding one extra hole to attach the handle: http://www.searay-parts.com/Mobella-Talon-slider-door-latch-chrome-p/mobella talonchr whighseas.htm



Thank you very much! Bought and installed. Works much better than the original - from the outside anyway. Considering options to ease opening from inside the salon.

Great advice, much appreciated!

IMG_72751.jpg

IMG_49681.jpg
 
Spent just over 3.5 boat dollars in the yard this week. New bottom paint, props tuned and ended up needing one shaft straightened. Got to take the boat home late today. Boat hit 2680 on the tach's (3/4 fuel, 1/2 water, a ton of spares) and 29.9 knots in about 18 knots of wind.

Sunset on the cruise back to the marina:



Now to wait until morning. My new custom built Kevlar dinghy is to be delivered! Good times for sure.
 
The 3200 is what is called "high idle" and it is full throttle in neutral. If you look at the engine data tag on the valve cover there is the requirement for high idle shown. This validates the engine's governor and injection maximum settings. The high idle test is a very short duration test and temperature should not be a component of it. The data as you show is very good regardless of hours on the engines. Oil analysis is still needed as well as a coolant analysis. Without seeing all of the data these engines look good and properly loaded. Regardless, ensure to get your own engine and hull survey - it's money well spent and your insurance will thank you. As a side note, I'm surprised your surveyor doesn't know about the high idle test.....


Hi all,
I am in the process of buying a 1998 400DB with CAT3116 350HP engines. The seller gave me a copy of a recent survey (I will also conduct my own survey if we can reach an agreed upon price) and it says that during a trial run, the boat acheived the following:

PORT ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

STARBOARD ENGINE: CRUISE: RPM 2700; TEMP: 170; VOLTS: 13.5; OP: 50
HI-CRUISE: RPM 2900; all specs fall within range
WOT: RPM 3200; TEMP: 200, all specs fall within range

NOTE: SPEEDS ACQUIRED PER GPS were @ 2700: 17.5 Kts; 2900 RPM: 23.1 Kts.; 3200 RPM: 24.9 Kts.

Can this boat really hit 3200 RPM? That seems really high. I thought the engine would blow up at that RPM. My surveyor thought that was odd too. I have yet to do a trial run myself, but I'm curious to see what kind of numbers I'll get.

Thanks for any input.
 
Last edited:
The 3200 is what is called "high idle" and it is full throttle in neutral. If you look at the engine data tag on the valve cover there is the requirement for high idle shown. This validates the engine's governor and injection maximum settings. The high idle test is a very short duration test and temperature should not be a component of it. The data as you show is very good regardless of hours on the engines. Oil analysis is still needed as well as a coolant analysis. Without seeing all of the data these engines look good and properly loaded. Regardless, ensure to get your own engine and hull survey - it's money well spent and your insurance will thank you. As a side note, I'm surprised your surveyor doesn't know about the high idle test.....

According to that survey, it wasn't a high idle test. It was hitting 3200 RPM and doing 24.9 knots at that RPM. It was also, supposedly at 200 degrees at that RPM and speed. THat's what everyone thought it was odd. It doesn't matter anymore anyway. We walked from that boat. I got a hold of the owner and he confirmed that the boat was overheating. He only had it 1 season, and it overheated for the better part of his ownership. He fixed it by flushing the HE. But too many question marks for me. I don't like the high RPM, the overheating. And the sellers broker of the boat was a complete DB. We walked from it.

The good news is that we have a deal in place for another 1998 400 SB. Same engines, but with 900 hours on them. I have the survey and sea trial 1 week from today. Wish me luck!!!
 
Speaking of surveys, my hull survey guy will do some engine survey work too. He'll test RPM at WOT, measure RPM at the engines, test temps at the engines, do visual inspections of the engines, hoses, etc. and also will do fluid samples if desired.

From what I understand, the 3116 is a mechanical engine. What else will a "Mechanical Engine Survey" from a CAT place tell me over what the hull survey guy can? Is it worth it to get both? CAT told me that they don't do compression tests, and that they can't hook a computer to the engines because they're mechanical. So what am I spending 2300 on with an engine survey? Thoughts? Opinions?
 
Good luck cwiert. Sorry I can't help you much with the survey question. I think its a personal thing based on knowledge and experience of the boat owner. I know some that pretty much do their own surveys, but most everyone on this board will tell you to get the pros to survey the engine room stuff. Only suggestion I have is to try to get any documented maintenance history you can to augment the sea trial/survey. And $2300 for just the engine surveyor? That's a great hourly rate they are commanding.

If this one falls through there is an '02 with Cummins engines for sale in my marina (not sure what your price range is - this one would probably negotiate out at $150K+). Its mostly been a dock queen its whole life. Barely 200 hours on the engines.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of surveys, my hull survey guy will do some engine survey work too. He'll test RPM at WOT, measure RPM at the engines, test temps at the engines, do visual inspections of the engines, hoses, etc. and also will do fluid samples if desired.

From what I understand, the 3116 is a mechanical engine. What else will a "Mechanical Engine Survey" from a CAT place tell me over what the hull survey guy can? Is it worth it to get both? CAT told me that they don't do compression tests, and that they can't hook a computer to the engines because they're mechanical. So what am I spending 2300 on with an engine survey? Thoughts? Opinions?
Make sure they do a blow-by test which will give indication of cylinder, piston and ring condition.
Oil analysis of gears and generator.
Wring out the charging system
Engine and generator coolant analysis.
Trace the engine S/N's through CAT for any history on them.
Shafts can be rotated by hand and have smooth movement.

Good Luck!
 
Last edited:
The survey was completed yesterday. She ran great. Everyone was completely inpressed by how well she ran. We're just awaiting the oil samples to come back from the lab, and then the deal should be complete.

One thing that wasn't very good was the swim platform. I think the PO used the "Dock by Feel" method. Once he hit the dock, he stopped. THere are cracks all over the platform and the surveyor doesn't think it's repairable (or is worth trying to repair).

So, has anyone replaced their platforms here? If so, who did you use? I see some common complaints with the stock platform is that it's too low and too narrow (when rafting with other boats, you can't hop from platform to platform). Did anyone find a platform that addresses those concerns?

And before anyone suggests it, a hydrolic platform is not in the budget. :)
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,944
Messages
1,422,711
Members
60,927
Latest member
Jaguar65
Back
Top