410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

BCFC1D95-2BF5-4D40-9539-CCC84040021B.jpeg
F00B41C0-8F2A-4752-A968-C1B4AA620738.jpeg
85F4B050-9276-4061-9D94-A23880659D30.jpeg
85F4B050-9276-4061-9D94-A23880659D30.jpeg
F00B41C0-8F2A-4752-A968-C1B4AA620738.jpeg
Use this works great

http://www.seymourpaint.com/product-search/?search=Gloss+white&x=0&y=0BCFC1D95-2BF5-4D40-9539-CCC84040021B.jpeg F00B41C0-8F2A-4752-A968-C1B4AA620738.jpeg 85F4B050-9276-4061-9D94-A23880659D30.jpeg
 
Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

HOT TOPIC....CRUISE SPEED...

I have CATs. I Have Aetna Digital Tachs. I Record speed with GPS

I typically cruise with 1/4 - 1/2 Water
I Usually top of my fuel to start trips and refuel when I need ~ 200 Gallons....so no less than 125 Gallons on board at any time.
I keep my bottom and running gear clean. I dive my own boat so I don't rely on a diver....I check my own work.
I have 150" of chain anchor rode.
My refergerators are empty, but I have TONS of 'Stuff' on board...always...and TONS more when we trip.

I generally cruise at 2325-2425 RPMs. I start with full tabs and relieve them once on plane. I judge how much I relieve the tabs by paying close attention to my speed and tachs. As soon as I see a drop in either....I'm done. I generally make 22-23 knots. Depending on wind and sea conditions, I have seen a low of 21.xx and high of 24.xx. I keep very detailed logs of my hours, distance and time. I also keep a detailed log book with all my fuel fills. I "average" 1.1 sMPG.
 
Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

HOT TOPIC....CRUISE SPEED...

I have CATs. I Have Aetna Digital Tachs. I Record speed with GPS

I typically cruise with 1/4 - 1/2 Water
I Usually top of my fuel to start trips and refuel when I need ~ 200 Gallons....so no less than 125 Gallons on board at any time.
I keep my bottom and running gear clean. I dive my own boat so I don't rely on a diver....I check my own work.
I have 150" of chain anchor rode.
My refergerators are empty, but I have TONS of 'Stuff' on board...always...and TONS more when we trip.

I generally cruise at 2325-2425 RPMs. I start with full tabs and relieve them once on plane. I judge how much I relieve the tabs by paying close attention to my speed and tachs. As soon as I see a drop in either....I'm done. I generally make 22-23 knots. Depending on wind and sea conditions, I have seen a low of 21.xx and high of 24.xx. I keep very detailed logs of my hours, distance and time. I also keep a detailed log book with all my fuel fills. I "average" 1.1 sMPG.
Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

HOT TOPIC....CRUISE SPEED...

I have CATs. I Have Aetna Digital Tachs. I Record speed with GPS

I typically cruise with 1/4 - 1/2 Water
I Usually top of my fuel to start trips and refuel when I need ~ 200 Gallons....so no less than 125 Gallons on board at any time.
I keep my bottom and running gear clean. I dive my own boat so I don't rely on a diver....I check my own work.
I have 150" of chain anchor rode.
My refergerators are empty, but I have TONS of 'Stuff' on board...always...and TONS more when we trip.

I generally cruise at 2325-2425 RPMs. I start with full tabs and relieve them once on plane. I judge how much I relieve the tabs by paying close attention to my speed and tachs. As soon as I see a drop in either....I'm done. I generally make 22-23 knots. Depending on wind and sea conditions, I have seen a low of 21.xx and high of 24.xx. I keep very detailed logs of my hours, distance and time. I also keep a detailed log book with all my fuel fills. I "average" 1.1 sMPG.
Do you know what the pitch on your props is set to? I assume you have 22” diameter x ??.??. Not what is stamped on them. They could be stamped 22 x23 but be tuned to 22” x 22.60. Are they cupped?
 
Do you know what the pitch on your props is set to? I assume you have 22” diameter x ??.??. Not what is stamped on them. They could be stamped 22 x23 but be tuned to 22” x 22.60. Are they cupped?

unfortunately Dom isn't around to answer that question but his boat was propped to 22 X 21.5 with a # 5 cup and it turned about 2850 fully loaded. The only reason I know that is a previous owner who is a member on here sent me the info from when he owned it. I plan on having my props cut to approximately those same specs this winter
 
unfortunately Dom isn't around to answer that question but his boat was propped to 22 X 21.5 with a # 5 cup and it turned about 2850 fully loaded. The only reason I know that is a previous owner who is a member on here sent me the info from when he owned it. I plan on having my props cut to approximately those same specs this winter

Something you may not be aware of is that Dom had Caterpillar "turn up" his engines to what he said was 385 hp 3126 specs. Apparently, this can be done by resetting the fuel pump/governor and resetting the valve timing. So, let me ask you what I asked Dom: the hp gain is 15 hp @ 3800 rpm and you can only benefit from that speed at 3400 or fewer rpm, so what is your net gain? and at what cost? Harder on the mechanicals; More wear and tear on the engines; more fuel burned; more noise; just to get to the next watering hole a few minutes sooner than your buddies who haven't tried to squeeze the last bit of output out of the 3126's. But here is the real question for you: ........did Dom ever really turn up his engines and is that what his props were re-pitched to?

Unless you can locate the print-out from the prop shop showing the actual specs they repitched the props to, then you don't know. It seems to me that going back 3 owners, one of whom is unfortunately deceased, and relying on anecdotal evidence from a long time ago, is a rather imprecise way to go about spending your prop tuning money. Instead, consider getting your bottom and hardware as clean as possible, then run the boat over a measured course in both directions and record the WOT and cruise RPMS and the speeds over the course at several RPM settings. With that data you will be in a much better position to work with your prop shop to tune your props to the best specs for your boat.
 
Something you may not be aware of is that Dom had Caterpillar "turn up" his engines to what he said was 385 hp 3126 specs. Apparently, this can be done by resetting the fuel pump/governor and resetting the valve timing. So, let me ask you what I asked Dom: the hp gain is 15 hp @ 3800 rpm and you can only benefit from that speed at 3400 or fewer rpm, so what is your net gain? and at what cost? Harder on the mechanicals; More wear and tear on the engines; more fuel burned; more noise; just to get to the next watering hole a few minutes sooner than your buddies who haven't tried to squeeze the last bit of output out of the 3126's. But here is the real question for you: ........did Dom ever really turn up his engines and is that what his props were re-pitched to?

Unless you can locate the print-out from the prop shop showing the actual specs they repitched the props to, then you don't know. It seems to me that going back 3 owners, one of whom is unfortunately deceased, and relying on anecdotal evidence from a long time ago, is a rather imprecise way to go about spending your prop tuning money. Instead, consider getting your bottom and hardware as clean as possible, then run the boat over a measured course in both directions and record the WOT and cruise RPMS and the speeds over the course at several RPM settings. With that data you will be in a much better position to work with your prop shop to tune your props to the best specs for your boat.

Hey Frank, I should have been clearer - I’m not having our props cut to his size based on Dom’s data but rather having the prop shop prop us to 2850 fully loaded based on my current fully loaded WOT RPM of 2680. I’m thinking we’ll be in the 22x21.5 or 22x22 range, but that’s for the prop shop to figure out based on my current WOT data
 
We’re pulling the boat Tuesday for the season, what’s everyone’s offseason plans? I know a lot of you have had yours a while but I’m excited to get it up to our standards -

Pull aftercoolers for pressure test and clean
Replace all clamps and soft hoses on engines
Pull alternators for bench test - output is low on both. Possibly rebuild
Replace generator raw water hose
Replace ac raw water hose
Bottom touch up and raise paint 2”
New charger
2 new batteries
Fix freshwater leak (under the Cabin steps, they have to come out)
Pull props for repitch and balance
Cutlass bearings and alignment check on both engines
Compound and polish in the spring (a lot more glass than our 290 was...)
Scrub the bilge and repaint
Pull vacuflush generators to clean and rebuild

most of that stuff is my new boat checklist and some is overkill but I like having it all done before our first full year next season. In a weird way I’m looking forward to some time out of the water
 
We’re pulling the boat Tuesday for the season, what’s everyone’s offseason plans? I know a lot of you have had yours a while but I’m excited to get it up to our standards -

Pull aftercoolers for pressure test and clean
Replace all clamps and soft hoses on engines
Pull alternators for bench test - output is low on both. Possibly rebuild
Replace generator raw water hose
Replace ac raw water hose
Bottom touch up and raise paint 2”
New charger
2 new batteries
Fix freshwater leak (under the Cabin steps, they have to come out)
Pull props for repitch and balance
Cutlass bearings and alignment check on both engines
Compound and polish in the spring (a lot more glass than our 290 was...)
Scrub the bilge and repaint
Pull vacuflush generators to clean and rebuild

most of that stuff is my new boat checklist and some is overkill but I like having it all done before our first full year next season. In a weird way I’m looking forward to some time out of the water


I bought a 50’ roll of 1” raw water hose for the generator. I only used maybe 10-15 ft. Let me know if you want some.
 
I bought a 50’ roll of 1” raw water hose for the generator. I only used maybe 10-15 ft. Let me know if you want some.

yep, I’ll take it. I’m going to do the whole run from seacock to the inlet so I’ll grab a measurement tomorrow morning.
 
unfortunately Dom isn't around to answer that question but his boat was propped to 22 X 21.5 with a # 5 cup and it turned about 2850 fully loaded. The only reason I know that is a previous owner who is a member on here sent me the info from when he owned it. I plan on having my props cut to approximately those same specs this winter
Thanks for your response, I have a 2003 410 with 3126’s, 350HP. The previous owner had the props tuned every couple of years to 22 x 23 as stamped on the props, but was always low on RPM (2,600). I called the same prop shop and told them my boat model, engines and Current pitch. I Told them I wanted to get to 2850 (just above 2,800 Mfg’s spec) They told me I needed the props re-pitched to 21.6“. That is very close to your targeted 21.5”. I had all the Prop Shops service records, I gave them the shop order numbers, and asked if the previous owner every told them his RPM’s were low. Nope! I hope this corrects my RPM situation, had a Cat tech on the sea trail and he could find no problems with the engines. I spotted the prop reports during the survey and thought the pitch was heavy from everything I had read, but I am not an expert and you just never know. Now I will have to wait until spring to find out.
 
Thanks for your response, I have a 2003 410 with 3126’s, 350HP. The previous owner had the props tuned every couple of years to 22 x 23 as stamped on the props, but was always low on RPM (2,600). I called the same prop shop and told them my boat model, engines and Current pitch. I Told them I wanted to get to 2850 (just above 2,800 Mfg’s spec) They told me I needed the props re-pitched to 21.6“. That is very close to your targeted 21.5”. I had all the Prop Shops service records, I gave them the shop order numbers, and asked if the previous owner every told them his RPM’s were low. Nope! I hope this corrects my RPM situation, had a Cat tech on the sea trail and he could find no problems with the engines. I spotted the prop reports during the survey and thought the pitch was heavy from everything I had read, but I am not an expert and you just never know. Now I will have to wait until spring to find out.

Sounds like you’re on the right track. My boat comes out tomorrow so we’ll get on the work right away as well.
 
A8AFFAEB-88DE-4582-B1E2-4103A3F9FD9B.jpeg
4D38387A-AC10-4604-BD42-A0809093EF7C.jpeg
Pulled the boat today, the starboard side prop has a decent bend in it. This is the same side that’s about 80 rpm lower at WOT, I’m wondering if this is the culprit. The shaft on that side is also significantly stiffer in neutral. The yard is going to take a look at it and the insurance said they’d cover it since it’s impact damage (if we want to claim it)
 
Something you may not be aware of is that Dom had Caterpillar "turn up" his engines to what he said was 385 hp 3126 specs. Apparently, this can be done by resetting the fuel pump/governor and resetting the valve timing. So, let me ask you what I asked Dom: the hp gain is 15 hp @ 3800 rpm and you can only benefit from that speed at 3400 or fewer rpm, so what is your net gain? and at what cost? Harder on the mechanicals; More wear and tear on the engines; more fuel burned; more noise; just to get to the next watering hole a few minutes sooner than your buddies who haven't tried to squeeze the last bit of output out of the 3126's. But here is the real question for you: ........did Dom ever really turn up his engines and is that what his props were re-pitched to?

Unless you can locate the print-out from the prop shop showing the actual specs they repitched the props to, then you don't know. It seems to me that going back 3 owners, one of whom is unfortunately deceased, and relying on anecdotal evidence from a long time ago, is a rather imprecise way to go about spending your prop tuning money. Instead, consider getting your bottom and hardware as clean as possible, then run the boat over a measured course in both directions and record the WOT and cruise RPMS and the speeds over the course at several RPM settings. With that data you will be in a much better position to work with your prop shop to tune your props to the best specs for your boat.
Frank,
I’m not so sure he did. I think he just enjoyed talking about doing it on boat diesel.com and here. The governors had all their original paint on the screws - I don’t think they were ever touched...

He had receipts for EVERYTHING, and There was no receipt for turning up the governors/pumps.
 
Last edited:
Carter,

It has been a long time ago and I wasn't involved other than to recommend against resetting the govorners to other than Cat's specs.

As I recall, Dom said he found an ex-Cat mechanic who knew the unit injection system well enough to reset the pump without access to the Caterpillar tools. His position was "Why not get the benefit of the 385hp engines without spending the $34k for the option. Sometimes Dom would come up with things like this just to rope others in a pro/con discussion. Perhaps this was one of those, but at this point, it really doesn't matter...............
 
View attachment 93195 View attachment 93196 Pulled the boat today, the starboard side prop has a decent bend in it. This is the same side that’s about 80 rpm lower at WOT, I’m wondering if this is the culprit. The shaft on that side is also significantly stiffer in neutral. The yard is going to take a look at it and the insurance said they’d cover it since it’s impact damage (if we want to claim it)

That can drop the RPM for sure. The insurance company might insure the one, but not likely the other, and with deductibles and possible increases, might just be better to get both done right out of pocket.
 
Do you really want to lose your no loss credit and part of your declining deductible (if your policy has that feature) on your insurance policy just to have one prop straightened?

Guess that may depend upon hoe bad the yard dings you on the shaft work.
 
Do you really want to lose your no loss credit and part of your declining deductible (if your policy has that feature) on your insurance policy just to have one prop straightened?

Guess that may depend upon hoe bad the yard dings you on the shaft work.

i don't, but I’m on the fence because of the tightness in the shaft I’m wondering if it’s strut/shaft/prop which I’d think will add up. The yard is going to give their good faith estimate before we take anything apart so that will give me an idea of approximate costs.

The insurance said once they have the estimate I can continue to tear down and assess the damage. If the costs start adding up we can make the claim later, which seems like the best course of action.
 
That looks pretty minor. Hopefully its just a dinged prop. Getting the props tuned is a great "investment". The price around here for the prop tuning is about $500/prop, and the shop will likely take care of that ding in the process, and I think you were planning that this off season anyway. I doubt that cased any other damage to struts/cutlass bearing or shaft.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,950
Messages
1,422,861
Members
60,932
Latest member
juliediane
Back
Top