410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

SeaNile said:
I'm finding there are not a lot of differences in the 99-02 boats as far as options. Two things stick out as far as separating all the diesel boats for sale, aside from the engine hours, would be if the electronics are original or replaced and the age of the canvas. Also seems the asking price increases with the year with the 99's being the least expensive and the 02's being the most expensive. Not sure it's worth 20-30k for an 02 over a 99.
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Condition of engines and tranny, condition of generator, age and condition of canvas, age and functionality of electronics. Dated electronics can still work perfectly well. Beyond that, hull condition, but in many cases you have to haul to see that.

New generator installed, $15k. New canvas, $7-10k. Electronics depend on whether radar is usable and how high end you want to go. $1k min, up to $6-8k? for a full replacement.

I think you are an experienced boat owner, but just in case you aren't, if a boat seller ever tells you an issue is small and easy to fix, they are lying. If it was small and easy to fix they would have fixed it before they sell, unless they have just given up on the boat. If they've given up on the boat, there are issues you haven't found.
 
I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread but we went for the 410 because I wanted the cockpit upholstery without the piping. It’s a small thing, but the wife and I really liked the look better

down below the 400 has better galley storage with cabinets that go to the ceiling.

I’d have gone for a 99 in a heartbeat if there was one available in diesel and similar condition to our 02, there just wasn’t at the time.

funny about your price findings - ours is a freshwater only, diesel, 2002. All of which you’ve found to increase asking price. I guess that’s why I paid a premium :)
 
The 02 on has un upgraded electronics pod. The 99-01 can house a single 12” MFD. The 02-04 can house dual 12” MFDs

only thing I wish mine had, but not a deal breaker.
 
Since i have an issue with commitment buying a boat for a premium isn't something I've ever done. I'm still sticking to my initial goal of finding the nicest 400/410 with diesels I can find for the lowest price. Simple huh? If I had to guess it'll be somewhere in the 85-100k range. Given that price I would not be interested in spending essentially 10% of the purchase price for new canvas, etc. 110 or so for an 01/02, not sure I can justify the up charge unless there are no other options. As much as I'm not up for paying a premium I am also all about instant gratification. Not having a boat next spring isn't an option!!! Of course some unforeseen circumstances arise.

So, here's to find the one with newish canvas, updated electronics and well maintained diesels!
 
SeaNile said:
Since i have an issue with commitment buying a boat for a premium isn't something I've ever done. I'm still sticking to my initial goal of finding the nicest 400/410 with diesels I can find for the lowest price. Simple huh? If I had to guess it'll be somewhere in the 85-100k range. Given that price I would not be interested in spending essentially 10% of the purchase price for new canvas, etc. 110 or so for an 01/02, not sure I can justify the up charge unless there are no other options. As much as I'm not up for paying a premium I am also all about instant gratification. Not having a boat next spring isn't an option!!! Of course some unforeseen circumstances arise.

So, here's to find the one with newish canvas, updated electronics and well maintained diesels!
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It was tough we looked for a couple of years started out looking at 34s and 380s finally got smart and looked at the 410s


You could easily find something mechanically able to handle next spring for under 100,000 But you start looking at electronics easily $6 to $20,000 if you want to go into radar auto pilot dual MFD’s update VHF all NMEA 2000

Canvas and a upholstery Can get expensive very fast
The boat I found was a 2002 in Miami with 1100 he diesels Very well-maintained
They had done all of the sound system LED lights some upholstery in all of the canvas Upgraded Garmin package with auto pilot radar single 7612 new VHFs
They did about $10-$15,000 worth of engine work the last year and a half replaced the coolers lots of other things


They were asking 168,000

we settled on $130

I had to put a new bottom ( paint) on it replace the shaft seals add isinglass in the cockpit new AC unit in the salon

My wife and I both are in the boating industry so we get a break on parts etc
We’ve owned Bertrams to sea crafts etc
We absolutely love this boat
She handles so nice and is economical for her size
I’m 511 about 210 pounds easy to work around the engines

I hope you find what you’re looking for
 
SeaNile said:
Since i have an issue with commitment buying a boat for a premium isn't something I've ever done. I'm still sticking to my initial goal of finding the nicest 400/410 with diesels I can find for the lowest price. Simple huh? If I had to guess it'll be somewhere in the 85-100k range. Given that price I would not be interested in spending essentially 10% of the purchase price for new canvas, etc. 110 or so for an 01/02, not sure I can justify the up charge unless there are no other options. As much as I'm not up for paying a premium I am also all about instant gratification. Not having a boat next spring isn't an option!!! Of course some unforeseen circumstances arise.

So, here's to find the one with newish canvas, updated electronics and well maintained diesels!
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I may be a negative Nancy...but I think your price target is a bit (or a lot) unrealistic. You'll be shopping for that unicorn of a diesel sub-$100k 99-02 400/410 with newish canvas and touch-screen Garmin's for the next 10 years...:)
 
Well my 2021 winter boat project has officially kicked off this week. I've ordered up an extended swim platform (from swimplatforms.com) and the Hurley H30 Plus davit. With any luck I'll have everything in my garage in January. I plan to apply EVA foam flooring and install the davit in the comfort of my garage this winter, before installing the platform in the spring.

With any luck I'll be saying goodbye to my dainty OEM platform before launch 2021. And hey, if anyone wants this sucker let me know!

50698335953_025ea52263_c.jpg
 
I agree, a sub 100k 400/410 with updates and diesel is a pretty hard find at this time. I am a broker, I have multiple clients looking for similar boats and they just aren't there. For example, I just sold a freshwater 2001 410 with sub 700 hours on 3126's, new electronics and canvas that never hit the market for 60% higher than your target. Its not impossible, but you will be working the phones!
 
I agree it could be a challenge and maybe sub 100k is a bit aggressive, but definitely less than 110. All speculation at this point with the unknown future of the vaccination, covid rates, travel restrictions, the market, Joe in office etc. The boating market is still hot and I think most of these prices are inflated with these particular boats going for upwards of 130+. It's a 20 year old boat at this point!!!

Hopefully I can find the right one and be boating again by May 1.
 
Props look awesome. Love they way they look coming out of a shop. Any issues with them or just wanted them gone over for the next year?
 
SeaNile said:
Props look awesome. Love they way they look coming out of a shop. Any issues with them or just wanted them gone over for the next year?
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WOT RPM was low. They are the factory 21x23 and we were only turning 2680 fully loaded. Reduced pitch to 22x21.5" to target 2850 WOT.

They also had a couple dings and a lightly bent trailing edge that was repaired as well as full balance.
 
carterchapman said:
I use velox anti fouling on mine - are you going to use anything?
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I'm not sure yet. Aside from being a little tarnished they were spotless. We are in a very deep and clean harbor and of course freshwater on Lake Ontario. Others seem to leave them bare around here as well
 
I'm a big fan of under propping as well. It's good for the engines and ensures correct WOT when you have a full boat, etc.
 
Strecker25 said:
I'm not sure yet. Aside from being a little tarnished they were spotless. We are in a very deep and clean harbor and of course freshwater on Lake Ontario. Others seem to leave them bare around here as well
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I forgot you were FW. No need to paint anti-fouling!
 
Strecker25 said:
first full year coming up but I hope to be well over 150. For our very short season of april-October I think that’s pretty good!
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Wow, that's impressive! We spend a lot of time on the hook swimming and hanging out. It's only a 45 min ride from the marina to the place we hang out. 150 hours is a lot of running!!

Hopefully we will explore more of the Chesapeake if we manage to get a 400/410.
 
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