410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

amazing. Can't wait to see the finished product mounted up. Keep the updates coming

 

The search is ongoing for our next boat. Checked out a 00 400 several weeks ago and just last week saw a 99 400. Definite no go on the 00 400 and I'm not ruling the 99 out just yet. Planning on seeing a 00 410 in the next few weeks and also have been kicking around the idea of a 99/00 Trojan 44 Express. Not sure I want a boat that big and would also have Volvo TAMD75 or the 480 Cummins. Not a huge issue but the GPH goes from low 20's in the 400 with Cats to upper 30's even low 40 GPH with the Volvos @480hp.

There are some nice ones out there but none with the perfect unrealistic goal of low hours, well maintained, newish canvas and a reasonable price. Ah, the joys of winter shopping.

 

i had my eye on a 460 with Volvo’s but the local dealer/mechanic support is non-existent so I didn’t pursue it. Make sure you have some local talent to support them if you go that route. Cummins shouldn’t be an issue for dealer support, same with CAT.

 

SeaNile:
My wife and I drove from Cleveland to Chicago while looking for our 410. We learned quickly that many boats are not as advertised. We then started doing Face Time tours of boats with Brokers before driving any distance to see the boat. When you can ask them to point the camera at exactly what you want to see it is hard to hide the condition of the boat. As hard as it may to believe a Boater owning a 41’ boat is worried about a tank of gas for his car, it did save time and money in finding our boat. Hope this helps you find your boat. Best of luck!

 

Very cool! It will look great. I can’t wait to see it on the boat.

 

I'd be fortunate because the Volvo service is only about 20 minutes away. If it wasn't for them being so local I wouldn't ever consider the Volvos and an option. This particular boat has probably been sold by now and is in Ontario. Waiting to hear back from the owner....

The Cummins boat broker can't get a reply from the owner so he's not sure which marina it's located at and if it's been shrink wrapped and if there is a zipper in the shrink wrap, etc. All unknowns. Asked very directly to the broker "should I just forget about this boat and move on?" His reply "if you don't hear back from me by tomorrow night I would move on and not consider this boat." Awesome.

 

Aside for the challenge of getting a boat from Toronto I am also slightly hung up on the GPH difference between the 3116 and TAMD75. The 40 Sea Ray with the Cats looks like a low 20's GPH at cruise whereas the TAMD75 Trojan 44 Express is more like 35-38GPH. I don't put a ton of time on the engines running at cruise speed but the GPH difference is significant. I know, think of smiles per gallon and not GPH.

 

How many hours do you think you’d spend at cruise? If you’re a 50-75 hr/yr boater and say 30 hours at cruise the ~15 gph difference only adds up to about $1,500 or so difference in fuel costs annually (depending on your cost per gallon of course)

while not insignificant, $1500 of extra fuel costs will likely be somewhere in the lower half of your annual operating expenses most years.

 

35-38GPH? Those are spot-on gas engine flow rates in the 400/410. Seems odd that diesels would suck that much fuel? If you can't claim you're getting 1.0MPG you're losing half the appeal of owning a diesel boat . Those flow rates put you smack dab in the .6-.7MPG range @ cruise assuming a 22/23kts cruise.

I do agree with Strecker25 too. 50 hours of run-time is a solid year for Lake Michigan recreational boaters. I'm on my boat every single weekend May-October. In 2019 I made two long trips, one to Chicago and one to Leland, in addition to the usual weekend beach/cove boating. That year I put 67 hours on the engines, 103 hours on the generator. That is my record for hours so far.

 

I logged just over 100 hours last season with my 400 June 26th through October.

The major appeal to the Cats for us was the range. On our trip north last season, we fueled up in Michigan City, back to New Buffalo for a day or two and then went straight to Frankfort, MI with probably 1/4 tank to spare. My old gas boat couldn’t have come close to that.

the biggest difference between the Cats and the Volvo’s and the 400/410 and the 440 Trojan are the fact that they are totally apples to oranges. The 440 Trojan is more inline with a 460. 480 hp vs 350. A 460 Sundancer burns pretty close to the same as the 440.

 

The road show continues tomorrow. Going to look at another 400. Definitely interested in this one and it's also January, will be sunny, need to get out of the house and with COVID restrictions what else is there to do?

Still not ruling out the Toronto boat but with Covid it makes purchasing it and having it delivered challenging. Erie Canal opens on/around May 1 so I need to keep that in mind.

 

what’s your route? Toronto to Oswego and down? Would be a fun trip, wave as you pass by rochester

 

SeaNile is the Toronto boat the 440 trojan with hardtop and Volvo's
If so I'm going to view it Sunday, can send you details.

 

That's the one! Are you interested in it as well?

 

Not 100%. its got a few things I don't like, its salty and volvo'd but I need to see it, only an hour away so ill have a look.

 

Same for me, have positive and negatives but it sure does check a lot of boxes. No helm AC so I wonder if it gets really hot while on the hook, is it loud at cruise with the hardtop connecting to the front windows, does it trap in diesel fumes, etc. All legitimate concerns but yet I am drawn to the boat. Looks extremely European to me while my wife says it screams dated 80's styling. According to the Volvo charts the TAMDs sure are thirsty at cruise although I do realize this boat is significantly larger than a 400.

The aft "garage" large enough to fit a small jet ski. How can I say no to that??? Put a nice little Yamaha SuperJet in there and it would be the ultimate boat for us.

Oh, the other major thing, the delivery, costs and purchase price may very well add up to this being over budget and an unrealistic possibility.
Can't wait to hear your feedback, even if you decide to buy the boat!!

 

Took advantage of the sunny weather today and took a 2 hr ride to DC to check out another 410. It was ok at best, over priced IMHO, no wow factor, original C series RayMarine electronics, no SeaTek type flooring, very stained interior carpet and the exterior upholstery had a lot of repaired cuts and the one corner was really beat up. Not worth it to me at his price when you add in the flooring and doing something with the interior carpets.

The search continues although I've got my fingers crossed for the Toronto Trojan.

 

So you guys can probably tell by now I’m a crazy person and a bit of a perfectionist. Something wasn’t sitting right with me last time I aligned the repaired driveline. The engine had to move a lot and it felt off. So, after some research I turned up @MasterFab old blog and found a post where he turned a bushing on a lathe that fit the shaft log to center it. From there, you align the engine to the shaft, not the other way around. I didn’t have time to get to a lathe, so I used pvc and an old cutless bearing. Lo and behold, I had to shift the engine significantly and drop the front mounts. It is now perfectly centered and is a 1 finger operation to rotate the shaft by hand. Still will need the in water final alignment but I feel much better about it now. Last step is to bed the strut so I have to take it all apart again, but need warmer weather for the 4200 to cure. See below for my “bushing” creation. The split tube slid into the log and then the other piece self centered once on the shaft

 

That's impressive work. The projects never seem to end.

No updates on my search. Adding a Regal 4260 to the mix, hope to see it within 2-3 weeks.