420/44 DB Owners Club

Flix2 said:
Aftercoolers & heat exhanger replace or repair?
I am getting another step closer to be the proud owner of a 44. Yeah! Engine and boat surveys are done. The fluid anlysis was fine. I am concerned about what the commin tech/surveyor deemed important action items. These 3 items are the most expensive:
  1. The aftercooler housing seals are leaking and the aftercoolers are in poor condition and should be replaced. $7,500 (parts)
  2. The marine heat exchanger is leaking and is in poor condition. Replace heat exchanger and all related seawater and cooling hoses. $400 (parts)
  3. Port Engine: Replace wet exhaust elbow hose and all related clamps. The hose has been leaking seawater and is in poor condition. $450 (parts)
  4. Labor: $6,500 for above and a few miscellaneous items.
The boat purchase took a big bite out of our savings. We are hoping to reduce the added expenses but not to endanger ourselves with broken down engines in the middle of the sea. I'm pretty handy with cars and house repairs but ignorant about disel engines. What's your opinion on reconditioning (not sure the correct term) vs replacing? How soon should I do these repairs? Thank you in advance!

Here are some photos:
View attachment 102434Starboard aftercooler
View attachment 102435port aftercooler
View attachment 102436port exhaust elbow
View attachment 102437(Onan) Replace marine heat exchanger and related hoses
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I did all of that myself and if you are limber and at all mechanical there is no reason to farm that stuff out. Until you get into serious internal engine stuff or the fuel controls these Diesel engines are literally as simple or even simpler that the Gas Big blocks to work on. You will find plenty of guidance on this due as well as SBMarine to do a lot of it yourself. I was where you are five years ago when we bought our 44. It was 9 years old with 118 hours on it. I slowly and methodically learned as much as I could about the engines and just dove right in to doing my own service.
What part of the world are you hailing from?
 
In September I had After Coolers, HEs, gear and fuel coolers all pulled, cleaned, put back together, new hoses and pressure tested and a few other things for less than the labor you are paying. I am all about Cummins and their people doing the work, but if you can find a reputable diesel guy that knows what he is doing, you will save a lot of money. I got lucky...

Bennett
 
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I also over the winter did what you need to do. I started at the front of the motors and worked back replacing or repairing every component. I have maintenance ocd but a lost motor due to neglected service can cost north of 40k. Good luck, take care of your investment and enjoy her for a long time
 
I installed the mounting plates for the H30 today.
I have no idea how you would get inside the swim platform with the generator in place.
 
3A3E8817-F150-425D-B68D-5904264C58BB.jpeg
Mark.60 said:
I installed the mounting plates for the H30 today.
I have no idea how you would get inside the swim platform with the generator in place.
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I did it a couple of times building prototype mounts for my davit systems, haven’t quite been the same sense though:(. If I end up going that way I already have access holes on top of my platform to use.
Did you take pics of your mounting support plates by chance?
Carpe
 
boaterholic said:
You’ve got it! I would do your second choice of running normal 30 amp to one side and the 110 with adapter to 30amp plug on the other until you can run your second 30 amp line out to dock.
I just reconfigured my dock a month ago for our boat and I ran new electrical to dock pedestal and it has dual 30 amp service plus a 110 outlet at the pedestal. From the pedestal I’m running two 30 amp cords to the boat.
Click to expand...

I will run the cords as recommended. Thank you!

Flix
 
Carpe Diem, Bennet, and Mark,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I did most of the maintenance of my old 24 ft Rinker for 26 years and I hope I can do some of the stuff on the Sea Ray. It just looks so intimidating but I am glad that you think it's a doable DIY project. Lots to learn. If I can find a commins tech with reasonable rate like the one Bennet hired, I'd rather watcha and learn the first time.
Does everyone agree that the aftercoolers don't necessarily need to be replaced? Changing the gaskets, sending off the corrosions, and repainting may be what I need. How often should I do this?
Flix
 
Until you open them up you cant tell. Mine looked like new on the outside, once I opened them you could see the area where the bundle has to seal was all pitted. I just purchased a new set of aftercoolers. Go to sbmarine and look at the recommendations for service of your cummins engine. That is where I purchased my coolers. Lots of info on that site as well as this one. Welcome aboard
 
Flix2 said:
Carpe Diem, Bennet, and Mark,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I did most of the maintenance of my old 24 ft Rinker for 26 years and I hope I can do some of the stuff on the Sea Ray. It just looks so intimidating but I am glad that you think it's a doable DIY project. Lots to learn. If I can find a commins tech with reasonable rate like the one Bennet hired, I'd rather watcha and learn the first time.
Does everyone agree that the aftercoolers don't necessarily need to be replaced? Changing the gaskets, sending off the corrosions, and repainting may be what I need. How often should I do this?
Flix
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I am in the middle of complete cooling system maintenance myself. The aftercooler assembly is several parts: the housing, the core, end caps, and gaskets. You have a leak between the end cap (or caps) and the housing. The core is inside. Once you remove the end caps you will know if all you need is gaskets, and/or caps, and/or the housing as well. You will also then get your first look at the core.

If there is too much corrosion around the gasket location, either on the caps and/or the housing, you will need to replace the corroded parts to get the gasket to seal. I did a quick fix near the end of last season by building-up the corroded area of the port aftercooler with some JB Weld. It worked, but is temporary, so the housing is getting replaced this spring. The end caps were fine.

While at it, I will find out if the core will come out, and if it will, will see what kind of shape it is in. I understand the proper thing to do is pressure test it. If the core won't come out, I guess I will just be buying a complete aftercooler assembly...I hope not!
 
When I did my after coolers the cores were very tight and I had to use a press to remove them. There was corrosion where the silicone strip seal that is clued to the corners of the core allowed condensation to sit and corrode the inside of the body, I cleaned out the corrosion and filled the area with a high quality metal epoxy then I recoated the entire inside of the body with epoxy paint. The area where the seals make contact had just the most minor of pitting and cleaned up well. I am sure had a Cummins Tech found that condition they would have changed out the entire after cooler for sure. Its all about liability but if you understand what seals and where and know where the stress is there is no reason in my opinion to throw out serviceable components. Hopefully @flix yours have been serviced and greased regularly and the cores slide out. SB Marine suggested leaving out the silicone seals on the corners of the cores as they tend to promote the corrosion.
Carpe Diem
 
Thank you for all the very informative advice! I will wait till the coolers are opened to see if new one(s) are needed. I went to sbmarine and several other websites. It looks like the QSC8.3-500 aftercoolers are not in stock. I'm afraid the boat will be inoperable once the coolers are opened and no parts are available for extended periods of time.

Flix
 
Flix2 said:
Thank you for all the very informative advice! I will wait till the coolers are opened to see if new one(s) are needed. I went to sbmarine and several other websites. It looks like the QSC8.3-500 aftercoolers are not in stock. I'm afraid the boat will be inoperable once the coolers are opened and no parts are available for extended periods of time.

Flix
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You can also call Cummins directly to see if they have it in stock. If you call their toll free number they will direct you to the closes Cummins dealer near you.
 
Just be careful if the inside surfaces are not in good serviceable condition you may be able to patch them up.
I myself would not take that route. Any leak could cause the motor to in-jest sea water and there goes your season and your money.
 
Hey guys going to sea trail Friday on a 2005 sea ray 42 sedan bridge has Cummins 450hp Diamond series can anyone with this set up tell me what their cruise RPM is and cruise speed? Thanks
 
The last couple times I’ve started up the engines, the starboard side has not made the systems monitor sound the warning horn while starting. The port engine and the generator continue to trigger the warning horn during start as normal.
Where would be a good place to start looking for the issue?
Thanks
 
boaterholic said:
The last couple times I’ve started up the engines, the starboard side has not made the systems monitor sound the warning horn while starting. The port engine and the generator continue to trigger the warning horn during start as normal.
Where would be a good place to start looking for the issue?
Thanks
Click to expand...
I would check to see if the ignition wire to the monitor control box is +12V when the ign switch is on. I think it is pin 36 on the connector.
 
ttmott said:
I would check to see if the ignition wire to the monitor control box is +12V when the ign switch is on. I think it is pin 36 on the connector.
Click to expand...
Can you tell me where to locate that connector? I think there are only 4-5 wires coming out of the monitor box on dash and wires disappear into a bundle below helm area
 
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