7.5Kw Quicksilver Genny Problem

Discussion in 'Electrical Stuff' started by MarkD, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions
    Great news Mark. I've got a 7.5 in my boat that I've had my share of battles with too. I put a new control board in a few weeks ago and that solved my stalling problems but now I have a new problem. My battery is not charging and it stalled on me the other day due to low battery voltage.

    I've spent a lot of time on the phone with Dennis and Shawn at ASAP and could not agree with you more. They have been SO helpful to me with past problems and would highly recommend anyone else with Quicksilver generator problems to get in touch with them(and buy needed parts from them of course). Looks like I may be calling them again for this current problem. :smt009

    John (playdate), Any ideas what may be causing my generator to stop charging my battery? I know it's all done in the governor but I have no idea how it works.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  2. J Levine

    J Levine New Member

    753
    Oct 5, 2006
    New Jersey
    1995 Sea Ray 370 Sundancer
    Mercruiser 7.4L Blue Water inboard V Drives
    Mark you are the man. I have enjoyed watching this thread even though I have a Westerbeke.

    Reminds me of my favorite phrase from monitoring these boards over the years..."this boat was built by mortal men and can be repaired by the same"

    Good for you.

    Jon
     
  3. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Mark, NICE WORK! I'm so happy for you. What a great feeling when you can handle stuff like this yourself, with a little help from your friends of course. There is no repair guy on this planet who likely would have spent the time on to get this thing going, esp since it's the do-do bird of generators. And if this guy existed, you'd have to sell the boat just to pay him.

    Then entire text of this thread should be archived elsewhere IN CASE this website ever goes the way of the do-do!
     
  4. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    Tim,

    How old is the battery? A bad battery will fool the dc regulator into to thinking it is fully charged when in reality all it has is a surface charge.

    If it is not the battery, the next stop is to check the wiring from the governor/alternator assembly to the dc voltage regulator for breaks. Breaks often occur at the end points of the wire.

    If the wiring is sound, the next step is the dc voltage regulator which is Section 7.1 of the Operations guide. The governor/alternator assembly generates ac voltage (which you can measure) which is then converted by the regulator to 12volts dc (which you can also measure).

    The last item in order of failure is the governor/alternator. I have never seen the alternator portion fail.



    Mark,

    Congrats on geting it working....you have definitely earned your Quicksilver Merit Badge.

    -John
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  5. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions
    John, the battery is only a few months old so I doubt that's the problem.
    If I remember right there are only 2 wires coming off the governor/alternator so that should be pretty easy to check.

    If I'm not lucky enough for it to be something simple I'll move on to the DC regulator. Luckily I bought a junked unit that I stripped of most usable parts and I do have another DC regulator I can try on it.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
  6. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Hey John
    On the topic of governors, mine is leaking oil. It's a very minor leak but annoying and messy. I've tried stop-leak stuff which may have slowed it down a bit. I've resorted to topping it off occasionally and placing a small piece of oil-sorb cloth beneath but would like to do something to solve the problem definitively. I believe it's the main o-ring that sits btwn the two parts of the housing. I was planning on taking this off after the season and trying to hunt down a new o-ring (McMaster-Carr) but am deathly afraid to mess with it since the genny runs and puts out voltage perfectly. Suggesstions?
    Thx
    RON
     
  7. MarkD

    MarkD Member

    355
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hudson River
    1990 35' Sundancer
    twin 454 inboards
    Hey Ron, whatever happened with the replacement governor search? I dont remember the outcome? There was a similar unit available, but needed some mods.... did that ever pan out as a viable replacement...

    ... and you are correct on the archiving of the thread. for those of us who have this genny (a VERY quiet and smooth running unit) this informatino could be a lifesaver.
     
  8. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Wiliecoyote (another Mark) ordered the replacement governor and wound up not having to use it. He still has it. I've discussed buying it from him but if I have to take the thing off, I figure I might as well take it apart and have at it with a new O-ring. I'm very hesitant to do anything out of fear. These gennys are SOOOOOO tempermental.
     
  9. MarkD

    MarkD Member

    355
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hudson River
    1990 35' Sundancer
    twin 454 inboards
    Can you still get the proper O rings and do you need any special tools to do the job?
     
  10. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    O-ring would have to be matched up. I'd have to take the old one out, measure it an order several comparable sizes and see what fits best. No special tools needed that I can see.

    It may also be the bearing at the front. Probably a standard bearing but I'd need to take it somewhere to be pressed in to place. I have the exploded parts diagram and it seems pretty straight forward, other than the seemingly millions of tiny parts!
     
  11. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    Ron,

    I presume you are referring to the outside of the casing when you say "Stop Leak"? Short or sealing the outside of the casing the only alternative is to take it apart (replace the seals) or replace it. I'm surprised sealing the outside of it didn't work or materially slow it down. I would try that again with a gas/oil sealer before I tore a "perfectly working" governor apart.

    -John
     
  12. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions
    John, I went to the boat today and made some progress. I switched out the DC regulator with the extra one I had and I had 13.6 volts charging the battery so I think I'm back in business but I do have one concern. On the wire coming out of the DC regulator that charges the battery there is a 30 amp fuse. That fuse holder was hot. I mean really hot. that thing was too hot to even hold. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?

    Other than that issue everything seems to be working normally. Thanks again for all the help you've given not only me but everyone else here.

    Tim
     
  13. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    John
    Stop-leak is viscous stuff you pour into the reservoir and it's supposed to gum up the opening and stop the leak. They sell it in automotive stores. Anyway, it didn't work. This stuff but not this brand...
    [​IMG]
     
  14. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    Tim,

    Nothing to worry about. I would expect the battery was probably depleted (at least the VR thought so) and the Generator started charging it at it's full rate. 20+ amps will generate some heat.

    Keep in mind that battery charging technology when that Generator was made is considered brutal to batteries today.

    To show you how much charging technology has changed..... I could never get batteries (wet cell) to last more than two years on my boat before they were fried by the 110v charger that came with the boat. On the new charger (Xantrex 30 Amp), the same style wet cell batteries are on their fourth year The technology for progressive charging profiles which address different types of batteries has really improved battery life.
    .
    Thank you for the kind comment.

    -John
     
  15. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions
    Thanks again John. It's good to know I'm not looking at another problem about to happen.
     
  16. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions
    John, Now that I understand how the DC voltage regulator works could you explain to me what the AC regulator does. I couldn't find anything about it in the manual.

    Thanks

    Tim
     
  17. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    Tim,

    I'm assuming that you are asking how AC voltage is created by the generator and controlled. As I mentioned previously, AC voltage is also created by the alternator attached to the governor assembly and is converted to DC by the infamous DC Voltage Regulator.

    The guys who designed the Quicksilver generator series (Generac) were the mad scientists of their time. Where todays Westerbekes, Onans, Kohlers and others have electronic control over engine speed.....the Quicksilver uses a mechanical governor to manage engine speed. Nothing tells it what to do other than the centrifugal force on the weights instead the oil filled governor. Too much load...the governor pulls on the carb linkage and opens the throttle....too much speed it pushes on the linkage to close the throttle......old school carb management. It is designed to maintain a certain rpm regardless of the load.

    Today's units use an electronic plunger to control the carb or simply manage the fuel injection. I put a dvm on a Westerbeke the other day and the plunger managing the carb was making no-stop microadjustments to the carb. When a load was applied, it immediately responded which is a noticeable difference in the technologies.

    Given a constant engine speed meant that the generator portion was designed to produce ac at a specific rpm. This explains why their are only a few adjustments and safetys to the system. Specifically, the safetys on the control board are based on the frequency of the ac being produced. Too much engine speed raises the hertz over the control boards limit (I think the limit is 65hz for 50hz units) and the unit will shutdown. On the governor there is an adjustment you can make to dial in the engine speed to match the hertz.

    On the AC Voltage regulator, you can also make an adjustment for output voltage. I do have Chapter 1 of the Quicksilver Manual which goes into great detail how the AC Voltage regulator works.

    The only problem is that the manual is a 2mb pdf. If you want, I can email it to you. I will look into posting it on the Restoration Marine website as well.

    -JD
     
  18. MarkD

    MarkD Member

    355
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hudson River
    1990 35' Sundancer
    twin 454 inboards
    Hey John, If you post that 1st section, that would be great. Its funny, everyone I know who has one of these QS genny's has the same PDF file. That file only has sections 2-8. I have never seen Section 1. I assume its the same thing you are referring to. Keep us posted if you do that...

    Thanks again!
    Mark
     
  19. tmal2

    tmal2 Member

    112
    Feb 14, 2009
    Warwick RI
    1989 340EC
    Twin 7.4L Mercruisers with Hurth transmissions

    Thanks for the info John. Since it's tough to find people to work on these units I try to learn as much about them as possible so I at least have someplace to start when trying to diagnose a problem.

    I'll let you know if I need chapter 1. I've got a manual for the unit but I don't have it in front of me. I'll check next time i get to the boat to see if I have chapter 1 or not.

    Thanks

    Tim
     
  20. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    Mark,

    I know exactly what you mean....it was a rare find and is a great read if you own a Quicksilver. I have a couple of other diagrams for it that equally as rare. Who knew there would be a cult following for these things?

    I don't think Jim wants me to take up any more room on the csr website so I will talk to my web guy to get it up on the RM website. It might take a couple of weeks, since we are doing a number of things to the site. I will have him set it up so that the pdf can be downloaded.

    I'm sure we will get a Mercruiser or Generac lawyer emailing me about copyright law. Hopefully, they own a Quicksilver and understand. If they don't have a sense of humor then they can download it and post it on the Mercruiser or Generac website as a public service.

    -John
     

Share This Page

Show Sidebar