Anti-freeze will break your block!

[Arminius]

A raw/seawater (no heat exchanger/marine radiator) engine cannot be freeze protected by adding anti-freeze, without fully draining, no matter what Camco or your buddies tell you. When you pour anti-freeze in, a little may enter the block's water jacket regardless of temperature gauge reading (thermostat removal would be the minimum) but the vast majority is injected into the hot exhaust gases to cool the pipes and is blown out the stern. Last year, an unhappy Texan had followed the directions on the Camco package but had a cracked block. A buddy told me to set up a siphon and let it inhale a couple gallons of undiluted green auto antifreeze. The siphon worked but I was dubious and drained the block. The coolant wasn't even tinged green! (No Franken Poodles died as there was no place for the stuff to puddle-besides, they are mass produced in the Covid lab in China.)

 

[scoflaw]

common knowledge among the northern boaters.

 

[techmitch]

A raw/seawater (no heat exchanger/marine radiator) engine cannot be freeze protected by adding anti-freeze, without fully draining, no matter what Camco or your buddies tell you. When you pour anti-freeze in, a little may enter the block's water jacket regardless of temperature gauge reading (thermostat removal would be the minimum) but the vast majority is injected into the hot exhaust gases to cool the pipes and is blown out the stern. Last year, an unhappy Texan had followed the directions on the Camco package but had a cracked block. A buddy told me to set up a siphon and let it inhale a couple gallons of undiluted green auto antifreeze. The siphon worked but I was dubious and drained the block. The coolant wasn't even tinged green! (No Franken Poodles died as there was no place for the stuff to puddle-besides, they are mass produced in the Covid lab in China.)

 

[Njlarry]

Regardless of the winterization method used I always check the level of protection with a refractometer. Quick and easy, just check that the specfic gravity is the same coming out of the exhaust or a sample from the gear cooler as what was in the jug.

 

[paulswagelock]

Any seasoned veteran of winterizing knows to drain the block before putting antifreeze in, regardless of the method used.

 

[Espos4]

A raw/seawater (no heat exchanger/marine radiator) engine cannot be freeze protected by adding anti-freeze, without fully draining, no matter what Camco or your buddies tell you. When you pour anti-freeze in, a little may enter the block's water jacket regardless of temperature gauge reading (thermostat removal would be the minimum) but the vast majority is injected into the hot exhaust gases to cool the pipes and is blown out the stern. Last year, an unhappy Texan had followed the directions on the Camco package but had a cracked block. A buddy told me to set up a siphon and let it inhale a couple gallons of undiluted green auto antifreeze. The siphon worked but I was dubious and drained the block. The coolant wasn't even tinged green! (No Franken Poodles died as there was no place for the stuff to puddle-besides, they are mass produced in the Covid lab in China.)

Your title is flat out wrong. Antifreeze in the proper concentration will protect the block. You just need to follow the proper procedure to drain and fill it.

 

[Arminius]

Maybe you were listening in H.S. science class when told: "Diffusion is the net movement of anything (for example, atoms, ions, molecules, energy) generally from a region of higher concentration to a region of lower concentration." Wiki. If so, you might imagine you could pour antifreeze into some nook or cranny of your engine and expect it to mix with the water in all the restricted cavities of your cooling system before they froze (state change) and inexorably expanded, shattering cast iron. It might not work out and you will have to check the warranties on your diploma.
Gotta ask yourself, If I have really drained it, why would I want to put a water based liquid back in?

 

[Arminius]

Regardless of the winterization method used I always check the level of protection with a refractometer. Quick and easy, just check that the specfic gravity is the same coming out of the exhaust or a sample from the gear cooler as what was in the jug.

My point was that what comes out the exhaust is much more concentrated than that in the block's cooling jacket. Bad sampling!

 

[paulswagelock]

Maybe you were listening in H.S. science class when told: "Diffusion is the net movement of anything (for example, atoms, ions, molecules, energy) generally from a region of higher concentration to a region of lower concentration." Wiki. If so, you might imagine you could pour antifreeze into some nook or cranny of your engine and expect it to mix with the water in all the restricted cavities of your cooling system before they froze (state change) and inexorably expanded, shattering cast iron. It might not work out and you will have to check the warranties on your diploma.
Gotta ask yourself, If I have really drained it, why would I want to put a water based liquid back in?

Not making much sense here. Let’s assume this applies (though it does not) I would still rather have any amount of AF mix with whatever residual water is left in a cavity than leave it as pure water. What really happens is that the antifreeze being pushed under pressure pushes the water along the path to the exit for the most part.

 

[Arminius]

No water or AF in it if you removed all the plugs and rodded out any that don't flow. No further action or worry will be needed besides removing the bilge plug and posting the usual reminders to replace all in spring. This advice is strictly limited to raw water/Alpha Ones.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Arminius, your advice - while correct in theory - is flawed in real life. "Book smarts" and quoting Wiki is one thing, but real life experience prevails. Yes, draining out the water should work and for many people it does. However, there still exists the possibility that a clog is further in than the few inches that a tool or zip tie can reach. Adding AF the proper way completely eliminates any possiblilty of damage. I'm saying this not from internet research and sitting behind a computer screen but from decades in the industry where we do a couple hundred winterizations every year.

Plus, an empty block can rust. Winter air is drier than Summer air so it's not as bad as one might think - but rust still happens. PG AF is designed specifically to combat that.

And, the comment about the advice pertaining to raw water/Alpha is also incomplete as we already talked about the fact (in your other thread, so you should be aware of this) that there are different styles of "drainage" systems even though they use blue plugs. Some require more attention.

Morale of the story... Draining and leaving it dry can work. Draining and refilling with AF will ALWAYS work.

 

[techmitch]

Arminius, your advice - while correct in theory - is flawed in real life. "Book smarts" and quoting Wiki is one thing, but real life experience prevails. Yes, draining out the water should work and for many people it does. However, there still exists the possibility that a clog is further in than the few inches that a tool or zip tie can reach. Adding AF the proper way completely eliminates any possiblilty of damage. I'm saying this not from internet research and sitting behind a computer screen but from decades in the industry where we do a couple hundred winterizations every year.

Plus, an empty block can rust. Winter air is drier than Summer air so it's not as bad as one might think - but rust still happens. PG AF is designed specifically to combat that.

And, the comment about the advice pertaining to raw water/Alpha is also incomplete as we already talked about the fact (in your other thread, so you should be aware of this) that there are different styles of "drainage" systems even though they use blue plugs. Some require more attention.

Morale of the story... Draining and leaving it dry "can" work. Draining and refilling with AF will ALWAYS work.

Once again Sir, you have the patience of a saint.

 

[Arminius]

Arminius, your advice - while correct in theory - is flawed in real life. "Book smarts" and quoting Wiki is one thing, but real life experience prevails. Yes, draining out the water should work and for many people it does. However, there still exists the possibility that a clog is further in than the few inches that a tool or zip tie can reach. Adding AF the proper way completely eliminates any possiblilty of damage. I'm saying this not from internet research and sitting behind a computer screen but from decades in the industry where we do a couple hundred winterizations every year.

Plus, an empty block can rust. Winter air is drier than Summer air so it's not as bad as one might think - but rust still happens. PG AF is designed specifically to combat that.

And, the comment about the advice pertaining to raw water/Alpha is also incomplete as we already talked about the fact (in your other thread, so you should be aware of this) that there are different styles of "drainage" systems even though they use blue plugs. Some require more attention.

Morale of the story... Draining and leaving it dry "can" work. Draining and refilling with AF will ALWAYS work.

I defer to your superior and wide range of experience. I only recognize my own weakness and the possibility I will succumb to some half ass winterization scheme like Camco's. The truth is, if you are not confident you drained it, call a pro. Pouring antifreeze in is not the answer to your own doubts.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Once again Sir, you have the patience of a saint.

Amen!

Bennett

 

[techmitch]

I defer to your superior and wide range of experience. I only recognize my own weakness and the possibility I will succumb to some half ass winterization scheme like Camco's. The truth is, if you are not confident you drained it, call a pro. Pouring antifreeze in is not the answer to your own doubts.

At this point I am dead sure you are either close friends with wingless or your next conquest will best practices of how to get a pig on and off of you boat. That being said, please use marine plywood and the like for your future endeavor's.

 

[Espos4]

 

[Nater Potater]

At this point I am dead sure you are either close friends with wingless or your next conquest will best practices of how to get a pig on and of of you boat. That being said, please use marine plywood and the like for your future endeavor's.

"wingless" That took me a few seconds of pondering. Well played.

 

[Arminius]

An unhappy user of anti-freeze in Texas: http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php...-something-on-2016-mercury-4-5l-alpha.103263/

 

[Creekwood]

This thread has helped reinforce in my mind why I let the marina service department winterize the blocks. They know what they are doing, they have the right system, tools and AF. And if they screw up, they will fix the issue.

BTW I winterize everything other than the blocks myself and this year will try the blow out the lines method instead of filling with RV pink AF. I'll still use a bit of RV antifreeze in the sink drains, head and shower sump at the end though. Also in the AC system using the reverse pump method since there are coil loops I don't want to risk leaving water in.

 

[Arminius]

Last year I followed the Texan with the broken block. I realized there was nothing I could do for him. The best I could do was warn others in advance. That is why I started this thread.