Note what I mentioned above, especially if this is a stern drive. Not adding AF is adequate as long as all pockets of water are eliminated. However, adding AF is better and offers other benefits, as well. Adequate is fine... I prefer better
Anti-freeze will break your block!
- Thread starter Arminius
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- anti_freeze winterization
Ericinmich
Active Member
- Dec 12, 2021
- 211
- Boat Info
- 48 Sundancer, 2007... formally PapaG's
- Engines
- Cummins
Note what I mentioned above, especially if this is a stern drive. Not adding AF is adequate as long as all pockets of water are eliminated. However, adding AF is better and offers other benefits, as well. Adequate is fine... I prefer better
On that engine it was a 10 minute job to not eliminate any pockets of water. I suppose if one didn't do it right, leftover water could be an issue. It did take some common sense, like if no water came out the petcocks on the block, stick a wire in them to clear the obstruction.
There's always a little bit that lays in the intake area as it's horizontal. "Usually" it's not enough to cause a problem. But keep in mind, as I mentioned above, there are other benefits and using AF can ONLY help. My point is not about whether or not simply draining is good/bad - it's that there is an even better way to do it if one chooses.
Same here. I've had mostly Yamaha 2 strokes for almost 20 years and never used antifreeze in any of them. And it gets plenty cold sometimes.
Ericinmich
Active Member
- Dec 12, 2021
- 211
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- 48 Sundancer, 2007... formally PapaG's
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- Cummins
Agree about water in a few areas that lay flat, but for the same reason ice trays don't crack, I'm not worried about iron or aluminum. Trapped water is an issue of course, but if one doesn't trust the design and ability to remove it, sure there are ways to help that (heated storage probably the best). Plenty of people have relied on antifreeze to learn that it doesn't get in trapped areas or on the other side of a t-stat. No issues in fresh water run engines rusting out a block, but I suppose those in salt or brackish wouldn't want that sitting over the winter so then yes AF would provide better protection.
Decades of doing it per the manual saving the time and cost seems like the best plan for my engines.
Skybolt
Well-Known Member
- Nov 11, 2014
- 6,422
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- Reel Nauti
460 EC
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- Detroit 6v92TA
(Low profile's)
Alison Gears
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Never, as long as the engine is running. Have done many many Ski's this way. Can't turn on the pump until the engine is running then turn the pump off and then the ski off.
As I've said a few times, that is certainly adequate. But there are BETTER ways to do it and, quite honestly, it's not really an opinion. Adding AF IS better. Steel rusts regardless of type of water it was in - that's another fact. The correct AF helps to prevent (or at least minimize) that. Another fact. True, however, that during the winter months there is less rusting happening due to drier air.
This rusting is not an "immediately" bad thing - it's more of a cummulative effect. And there are multiple variables at play that can determine how cummulative it would be. In some cases, very little. In other cases, moreso. I have personally seen rusty water coming out of fresh-water only boat... on plenty of occassions. Keep in mind that your experience is relatively limited and it's quite possible that other people with different engines and in different areas will experience more/less issues than you.
Per your point about "per the manual"... well, that's ALSO many decades old. Can you guess what Mercruiser CURRENTLY (and for some time) recommends? Yup. Draining (only) is the bare minimum.
AGAIN, this is about pointing out "best practices" for others that are reading this and would like to do the best they can for their engine.
As a side note (just so you know where I'm coming from... NOT meant to "compare" the two of us), I've also done this for many decades - but not just my own (and family/friends) boats... but also the couple hundred boats that come through the shop each Fall. I will never do "just enough to get by" when I'm working on someone else's dime (or, for that matter, for myself/family/friends).
Ericinmich
Active Member
- Dec 12, 2021
- 211
- Boat Info
- 48 Sundancer, 2007... formally PapaG's
- Engines
- Cummins
Makes sense, plus I think we are talking about different generations of products. New engines with heat exchanges, water cooled cat converters, fuel coolers, etc., I'd follow what the newer manuals suggest as well.
My career was for an auto engine OEM product evelopment, so going by what the manual recommends is what I'm conditioned to do. A cast iron block will out live me if rust is a concern...
The Magic 8-Ball says... Chances are good! Although I'd still rather lesson that chance...
Plus, even the manufacturers "live and learn". For example, when the "quick drain" system first arrived on the scene from Mercruiser it was said that the only thing that had to be done was simply twist a blue handle and all water would drain from the block and manifolds as there were four hoses (form each drain area) routed to a single drain point. BUT... what happens if one of those hoses happened to be clogged with, for example, sand? It would APPEAR that everything drained and that the engine's long Winter nap would be safe... until Springtime and all of sudden water is coming out of places it shouldn't be during that first run of the season. It took Merc a year or two to correct their recommendation (after repeatedly doling out money for warranty replacements) that "just twist the blue handle" was all that had to be done. If someone still had original literature stating that, then that's what they might do.
Even the manufacturers don't always make the smartest decisions. Want another example? Google for Cool Fuel 3 paint issues. I'll give you the synopsis... the interior portion of the fuel canister (where the pump lives) was painted from the factory. Yup... I'm sure you figured out where this is going... you probably know what started happening once gas was introduced to a painted surface.
techmitch
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- May 1, 2008
- 8,323
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- 1999 270 DA
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- Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
I couldn't agree with you more, for the most part... Just remember, ice cube trays are not made out of cast iron and at that thickness, imagine if they were. Not to mention if they had any kind of lip at the top around the edges like the cavities inside of an engine. Although much thicker the freeze/crack theory still remains pertinent.
