Anyone with Zeus Pods?

Mercruiser has a past practice of "pulling the tomato off the vine before it is ripe". In the marine world this is simply releasing a product for sale to the general public before it is fully developed and tested. This means that you and I get to do Mercruiser's new product prototyping for them. Not only that, we get to pay for that privilege.

I bought this lesson in the early 90's with the Mercruiser Sport Jet in a 13ft. Sea Rayder. In the 2 years I owned that boat, I put 4 stators @ $780 ea and 3 diode packs @ $259 ea. plus labor before Mercruiser's start/diode pack ver 4.0 solved the problem. My friends accuse me of holding a grudge and I guess that is right because I swore that I would never again be roped into paying for another Mercruiser's incomplete product development. .......and I haven't.

I'm guessing the Zues system is about 10 years old, so perhaps they are getting close to having it figured out.
 
A couple of weeks ago, got a call from a broker who knows that I have been looking, off and on, (more off than on) for a 44DA. He said he was listing a 2008 44DA with QSB 5.9's, POD drives, Skyhook, etc, etc, and would I like to come see it. It only took me a few seconds to think, "h'mmm - 10+ year old consigned boat, 2008 had to be fairly early with Zeus development, then put on totally landlocked inland lake, with zero locally qualified mechanics. I told him I'd pass on this one.
 
fwebster said:
Mercruiser has a past practice of "pulling the tomato off the vine before it is ripe". In the marine world this is simply releasing a product for sale to the general public before it is fully developed and tested. This means that you and I get to do Mercruiser's new product prototyping for them. Not only that, we get to pay for that privilege.

I bought this lesson in the early 90's with the Mercruiser Sport Jet in a 13ft. Sea Rayder. In the 2 years I owned that boat, I put 4 stators @ $780 ea and 3 diode packs @ $259 ea. plus labor before Mercruiser's start/diode pack ver 4.0 solved the problem. My friends accuse me of holding a grudge and I guess that is right because I swore that I would never again be roped into paying for another Mercruiser's incomplete product development. .......and I haven't.

I'm guessing the Zues system is about 10 years old, so perhaps they are getting close to having it figured out.
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I think your assessment is very accurate Frank. I was speaking to the Zeus tech from our local dealership today and his recommendation (whether Zeus or IPS) is to have the drives serviced once per year regardless of the number of hours on the engines. It seems like sounds advice to have a look at the running gear and hull once a year regardless of the drive system you have, especially if you're moored in salt water.

Sandy
 
I have always hauled my boat (an earlier 450DA with v-drives) out once a year to inspect the bottom, hardware and running gear, usually in February. The boat has always been in salt water, but that isn't important since Sea Rays are built for this environment. In fact, the vinyl ester resins are more blister prone in freshwater than in salt water. We use the boat 12 months a year and every day in the yard is a day we aren't on the water. Since we have no gear cases under water, the annual inspection is just an inspection. The usual haul out is in the afternoon, pressure wash while in the slings, inspect for blisters, check the condition of the zincs and bottom paint, then wash the hull from the rub rail down. Let the bottom dry overnight. The next day we do any bottom paint touch up, and reprint the running gear if needed and detail and polish the hull. If the weather has cooperated, we splash the boat on the 3rd morning, but this is the time of year when we can get some cold north winds and some sea fog, all of which affect paint drying times and the ability to work outside, so this usually costs us at least one extra day since we can easily lose a morning waiting on fog to lift or the temps to rise enough to paint. We do a full bottom job every 4th year.

Sure beats the 5 figure maintenance visit many Zeus owners deal with.
 
Update....... I spoke with one of the highest in management of Helac Corporation (a division of Parker Hannifin) that builds hydraulic rotary actuators as well as the STEERING ACTUATORS for mercury. While this is a proprietary part between Helac and Mercury, I have been told that Mercury all along has had a service procedure and availability to parts to rebuild these actuators. I have been lied to along with many others regarding this issue and I’m done dealing with liars. This executive has promised me results SOON! TBC........
 
Jethro32 said:
Update....... I spoke with one of the highest in management of Helac Corporation (a division of Parker Hannifin) that builds hydraulic rotary actuators as well as the STEERING ACTUATORS for mercury. While this is a proprietary part between Helac and Mercury, I have been told that Mercury all along has had a service procedure and availability to parts to rebuild these actuators. I have been lied to along with many others regarding this issue and I’m done dealing with liars. This executive has promised me results SOON! TBC........
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I'd be more than upset if I paid to have an entire assembly replaced, at 10's of thousands of dollars, when there was a part and fix available all along? That's just not right!
Gut feeling tells me the Zeus issues, and the liability concerns that come with it, played a big part in Brunswicks decision to discontinue SR yachts and why they tried unsuccessfully to sell the company.
 
Bridog said:
I'd be more than upset if I paid to have an entire assembly replaced, at 10's of thousands of dollars, when there was a part and fix available all along? That's just not right!
Gut feeling tells me the Zeus issues, and the liability concerns that come with it, played a big part in Brunswicks decision to discontinue SR yachts and why they tried unsuccessfully to sell the company.
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Likely it was one of the factors. Bad management usually begins with intercompany transactions which makes one group profitable and the other not. Sea Ray had no choice but to buy Mercruiser products even though in some cases such as the Zeus drives were seriously problematic. Further, as their only large customer for the Zeus product, Sea Ray probably got stuck with a lot of costs which they didn't need to have. Everything from hull design to interior fitting had to be adapted to the drives and Mercruiser was the 800 lb gorilla at the table. If SR had stuck with V drives and straight shafts at least they would have had a chance to succeed building bigger boats.

Again, this was a management failure which tarnished and diminished one of boating's great brands.
 
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Update! Mercury just released parts and the tool to replace the steering actuator seal. Boat needs to be on stands still but a lot less work AND MONEY than replacing the entire actuator!

I want to thank RK for his help in getting Mercury moving. It’s been a long time coming. My seal kit and tool have been ordered and will be here in 2 days. Will replace next week after Easter. I will post pictures of my progress. $298 is a lot less $ than $14000 for parts.
 
Except I wonder how that's going to make all those poor people feel who did spend $14k because Mercruiser told them that was the only option.
 
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copb8tx said:
Except I wondwo how that's going to make all those poor people feel who did spend $14k because Mercruiser told them that was the only option.
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Or.....the poor accountants at Mercruiser who were counting on actuator sales revenue to make their 2019 Plan......
 
Jethro32 said:
Update! Mercury just released parts and the tool to replace the steering actuator seal. Boat needs to be on stands still but a lot less work AND MONEY than replacing the entire actuator!

I want to thank RK for his help in getting Mercury moving. It’s been a long time coming. My seal kit and tool have been ordered and will be here in 2 days. Will replace next week after Easter. I will post pictures of my progress. $298 is a lot less $ than $14000 for parts.
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I am curious.....why would the seal fail in the first place? Hydraulics are pretty simple. The only time seals leak is when they are old/worn or the ram has been damaged by a score/pitting. In the first case....new seals solve the problem....in the second case....a new actuator is required.

In some cases the ram support bearing wears in an oval shape that can cause the seals to leak but that also requires a new actuator.

I'm just curious what is actually going wrong....
 
PlayDate said:
I am curious.....why would the seal fail in the first place? Hydraulics are pretty simple. The only time seals leak is when they are old/worn or the ram has been damaged by a score/pitting. In the first case....new seals solve the problem....in the second case....a new actuator is required.

In some cases the ram support bearing wears in an oval shape that can cause the seals to leak but that also requires a new actuator.

I'm just curious what is actually going wrong....
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Exactly! It's called the three C's

1. Concern (the customers concern)
2. Cause (the root cause of the failure)
3. Correction (what it takes to Correct the root Cause permanently and resolve the customers Concern)
 
If incorrect seal durometer or incorrect seal material is specified, that will cause them to fail prematurely.
 
douglee25 said:
If incorrect seal durometer or incorrect seal material is specified, that will cause them to fail prematurely.
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Doesn't that presume a manufacturing issue? I have rebuilt a lot of hydraulic rams and there is no reason for failures like this. Front loaders work in the dirt with far more ram pressure and don't blow seals like pods do. Mercruiser doesn't make seals but they do specify them to their supply vendors.

I just want to understand what is wrong.
 
Not manufacturing but rather engineering in my opinion. Could be manfucturing though. In their defense, it's quite possible their design requirements didn't take into account certain field conditions which result in early failure. Sometimes it just hapoens. Then the redesigned fix occurs... sometimes multiple times over before all is well.
 
Hydraulics have been around since 1795. In my opinion......unless they specified the rams and seals to be made of toilet paper.......there isn't a reason for them to blow seals. Every modern hydraulic ram has the same components.

Since pod owners report fluid all over their ER....one presumes a Rod seal failure since an internal failure would just result in a lack of applied pressure. If the Rod seal is not engineered for the internal pressure (too thin for example).....it is unlikely that changing the seal itself will change the end result.


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I see your point, but I'l give you two examples...

1. Pressurized gas strut rods are similar in design to hydraulic cylinders. Ever have one leak the entire oil contents when the rod seal shrinks in the winter?

2. Are you aware of the Kohler 6.5cz oil leak issue? There is a well know oil leak that results from an incorrectly spec'ed o-ring on the oil pump cover. The o-ring shrinks and gets hard which allows oil to leak profusely from the pump. The o-ring has been redesigned and oil leaks are a thing of the past.

So yes, changing the seal may not change the end result, however, I'm under the suspicion that maybe they redesigned the seal as well.
 
The exhaust dumps out next to the actuator seal. If the exhaust is starved of water flow, even for en extremely short amount of time, (10 seconds) it can cause the seal to become damaged then leak. In my situation, I sucked up a piece of cloth into my sea strainer, completely starving the motor of raw water. By the time I got a “high exhaust temperature “ warning and I knew what was going on, the damage had already been done. The seals in the beginning were not made to be able to safeguard from this issue. There is now an updated unidirectional seal.
 
Jethro32 said:
The exhaust dumps out next to the actuator seal. If the exhaust is starved of water flow, even for en extremely short amount of time, (10 seconds) it can cause the seal to become damaged then leak. In my situation, I sucked up a piece of cloth into my sea strainer, completely starving the motor of raw water. By the time I got a “high exhaust temperature “ warning and I knew what was going on, the damage had already been done. The seals in the beginning were not made to be able to safeguard from this issue. There is now an updated unidirectional seal.
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And now we know "the rest of the story" thanks for the explanation
 
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