Buyers Beware

importmonkey

Opinionated Member
Jul 9, 2015
1,056
Space Coast, FL
Boat Info
2005 260DA (sold)
2007 44DA (sold)
1989/2015 Hatteras 65c
Engines
12v92TA
I'm sure there are a few of us (either directly or indirectly) using this site while shopping for another boat. I also know that some of us are finding sub-standard vessels during inspections/surveys and, in turn, walk (sometimes run) away.

In an effort to save all of us time, money, and in the interest of looking out for our fellow forum members - what would be the harm in sharing our findings in this thread? We could offer our paid surveys at a discount if the buyer wants the detail, but at the very least tell them why we decided to walk away.
 
Case in point - I surveyed a vessel a few months ago and found it to have a MAJOR issue. I tried to negotiate with them, but they wanted to do a quick/bandaid fix instead. Just the other week, I saw a post on Facebook between the listing agent and buyer's surveyor bragging about what a "good survey" they just had on the boat, and how the "previous owner really took care of it." I know how they "fixed" the issue, and although it may or may not be acceptable to everyone, I don't know if they disclosed this information to the buyer. I also know that the service on the mains was WELL OVERDUE and the "previous owner" certainly did NOT take good care of the boat.

At any rate, my main concern is that whoever purchased the boat is safe.

Another case is where I flew out to another boat, only to pay the surveyor $100 cash to walk away - since the MAN guy couldn't even approve the vessel for sea trial. Knowing this could save someone thousands, and I certainly wish I would have known what I know now before even going up.

Sellers are demanding a premium for their boats these days. We MUST keep them honest and humble AND we need to protect ourselves from bad investments or worse...catastrophic failures.
 
The dealer I bought mine from turned out to be a total snake. I like my boat, and dont regret the purchase, but this snake turned what could have been a pleasant experience into a week of sleepless nights. That said, I would never post details or the name on a website. Its in the past and I dont want to open myself to more grief because I would not put it past that prick to be vindictive,
 
Sellers are demanding a premium for their boats these days. We MUST keep them honest and humble AND we need to protect ourselves from bad investments or worse...catastrophic failures.

This is a free internet forum. Though there are a bunch of super knowledgeable posters hanging around this place, making a purchase decision based on a potentially scorned would-be buyer's experience is no different than picking a president based on what you read about them on Facebook.

As impartial as we may think we are, you're never going to get two sides from these kinds of posts. Even the term "good survey" is entirely subjective. It depends on age, condition, asking price, location, etc. and so on.

"Buyer beware" is, and should be, exactly that. Take the time to educate yourself (directly) on the boat(s) you're interested in and make your own decisions. I mean shoot...around here we've got folks converting open bows to cuddy cabins with sheets of plywood, adding hot tubs to Sundancers and thinking the Lions will win the super bowl. This place is the wild wild west if I've ever seen it :)
 
While I applaud your desire to point out the bad apples and save us all some grief, it would seem that you could be opening yourself up to some slander-based lawsuits from disgruntled sellers. Please be careful.

This is exactly why I haven't put any details out there yet. I'm also not suggesting we bash brokers or sellers or boats - just to share information on what we've seen/experienced.
 
This is a free internet forum. Though there are a bunch of super knowledgeable posters hanging around this place, making a purchase decision based on a potentially scorned would-be buyer's experience is no different than picking a president based on what you read about them on Facebook.

As impartial as we may think we are, you're never going to get two sides from these kinds of posts. Even the term "good survey" is entirely subjective. It depends on age, condition, asking price, location, etc. and so on.

"Buyer beware" is, and should be, exactly that. Take the time to educate yourself (directly) on the boat(s) you're interested in and make your own decisions. I mean shoot...around here we've got folks converting open bows to cuddy cabins with sheets of plywood, adding hot tubs to Sundancers and thinking the Lions will win the super bowl. This place is the wild wild west if I've ever seen it :)

Yes. And NO ONE should buy or not buy based on someone's opinion. What buyers should do is exactly what you said - educate themselves - and why not use whatever information you can get, using your own judgement as to whether that information is relevant.

Oh, who are we kidding! People actually doing their due diligence and making sound, educated decisions?

Well, at least it sounds like a good idea in principle.
 
I think you will also find that surveys finish with the statement "and for the benefit of whom it may concern". I'm no lawyer but reselling or sharing them feels a bit...gray.
 
I think the counterpoint is that there are also some completely unreasonable buyers out there, who might badmouth a boat because they don't understand what they are buying. I dont think any of the regulars would do that, but new folks rolling through might.

A better option might be for the potential buyer to post a "Hey, does anybody know anything about the '98 370 listed in Winthrop Harbor" and then someone can tell you that the guy bought the boat 4 years ago and never changed the oil. That way a member could inquire about specific boats of interest.
 
If structured the right way I would welcome the input.

I follow the Porsche Rennlist forum as well and on the GT sub-forum there's a 'Cars For Sale' thread that is more the sharing of any know documentation of a given VIN for sale. It has saved so many people $$$$ from potentially buying a turd. You would be shocked at what some people will do to misrepresent a vehicle. No different than boating. I flew to Montreal to look at what turned out to be a turd. Would've saved me a couple grand had it been posted prior to my trip. I can tell you it was definitely posted after I got back.

The big challenge here would be a way to identify the boats. With cars it's easy because it's common to share the VIN's, and even expected. With boats not as much. You could make it a 'sticky' thread that always appears at the top maybe?
 
I think the counterpoint is that there are also some completely unreasonable buyers out there, who might badmouth a boat because they don't understand what they are buying. I dont think any of the regulars would do that, but new folks rolling through might.

A better option might be for the potential buyer to post a "Hey, does anybody know anything about the '98 370 listed in Winthrop Harbor" and then someone can tell you that the guy bought the boat 4 years ago and never changed the oil. That way a member could inquire about specific boats of interest.
Is that true? I kind of like that boat. :) Actually, it's a 97 I believe.
 
Problem is, everything on the net, no context. My boat hypothetical example. Someone posts, might say (boat), engine disassembled. Water heater rusted, 30yo, etc. might shy away a Lot of folks. What they don’t post is the engines are being refreshed, its got a total new interior (including leather headliner), all new cockpit cover and full camper canvas.
Point is some people only focus on the negative, overlook the positive.
This is sample, your mileage may vary.
 
Something that could be helpful for prospective buyers is identify an issue, how it manifests itself, and likely potential correct resolution. This could be done with out identifying a specific boat or seller.

For example, "crawling around in the engine room I saw a large amount of black dust all over one of the transmissions. Some particles looked larger than others. My concern is the damper between the engine and transmission might be failing." This was on a Sea Ray XXX Fly Bridge with xyz engines and vdrive.

One of the challenges for prospective buyers is know "what" to look for - and interpreting what they see.

There is no slander or liability associated with that.
 
The truth is truth. Never let scum bag lawyers drive fear into good people so that they don't stop others from being taken advantage of. This world is upside down. Share the truth, always.
 
There are a lot of people out there that have twisted sense of ethics. And being caught buying a turd and then being stuck with it, they take a twisted view that its OK to lie and dump it on the next unsuspecting person. Hopefully karma or poetic justice will follow them every step of their lives. Instead of Carpe Diem being the most common boat name, it should be Caveat Emptor.
 
Sorry, but slander and liability because you listed deficiencies in a boat you looked at? I don't think so Tim.
 
The impetus of this idea is like a term limits rant from someone who doesn't vote....
Is it not better to have a dedicated thread or even section on buyer education, the process, and pitfalls on purchasing a boat?
 
I have always contended in running my businesses that Contracts and Terms define the rules you need to play by. Outside of billing disputes I always felt it was the number of lawyers on each side determine the outcome. Defending a lawsuit against you - even when you are 100% in the right can be costly.

-Kevin
 

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