Calling all canvas people....Let's have an honest discussion....

Let's all start a canvas business together! (.......in just a few short years we will all be demanding $100 an hour!)
 
Quint4 said:
Let's all start a canvas business together! (.......in just a few short years we will all be demanding $100 an hour!)
Click to expand...
I was chuckling to myself about all the folks looking to purchase a machine.... I think when some of these folks give this a go they will be in for a rude awakening how tedious canvas and upholstery work can be.
 
douglee25 said:
I was chuckling to myself about all the folks looking to purchase a machine.... I think when some of these folks give this a go they will be in for a rude awakening how tedious canvas and upholstery work can be.
Click to expand...

I did it.

Never sewed before in my life. I had to teach myself how to use the machine. I watched videos on fabrication and read everything I could find on it. Then I practiced starting with scraps, then I started producing small bags and other simple items to hone my skill.

I did a complete enclosure on a SR400EC (excluding front bimini) and replaced the isenglass in the front curtains as well.

Entire project cost me about $1200 in material (I used Sunbrella and O'Sea) and 40 hours labor. My lowest quote just for the aft enclosure by the local "expert" was $5000. And I will put my work up against what she produces anytime (I've seen many examples around the area).

This fall/winter I plan on redoing some of the work on my present boat that was done by a professional 2 years ago (before I bought the boat). Some isenglass is wavy and baggy, not properly fitted. He did a good job on the bimini, but he sucked at side curtains.

There is no magic to canvas work. In fact it can be a rewarding hobby.
 
CaptRonn said:
I did it.

Never sewed before in my life. I had to teach myself how to use the machine. I watched videos on fabrication and read everything I could find on it. Then I practiced starting with scraps, then I started producing small bags and other simple items to hone my skill.

I did a complete enclosure on a SR400EC (excluding front bimini) and replaced the isenglass in the front curtains as well.

Entire project cost me about $1200 in material (I used Sunbrella and O'Sea) and 40 hours labor. My lowest quote just for the aft enclosure by the local "expert" was $5000. And I will put my work up against what she produces anytime (I've seen many examples around the area).

This fall/winter I plan on redoing some of the work on my present boat that was done by a professional 2 years ago (before I bought the boat). Some isenglass is wavy and baggy, not properly fitted. He did a good job on the bimini, but he sucked at side curtains.

There is no magic to canvas work. In fact it can be a rewarding hobby.
Click to expand...

Oh I know it can be done. I did some smaller stuff getting started for myself. Cushions, pillows, canvas repairs, etc. Correct, not magic, but it definitely takes some skill and pre-thought.
 
@Quint4 - If you read through my posts I don't think you've seen me begrudge a guy earning an honest living....I asked for an honest, open, discussion, and for the most part, that's what we've all done here...CSR is a pretty respectful group of guys.

That said, when multiple guys in the industry can't explain their pricing, I have an issue with it...I think I'm in the minority...Most people love an over-extended economy and will pay whatever, whenever, like the music will never stop....That's just not me.

If you tell me a job takes 50hrs and you charge $100/hr plus materials (say $2.5k) the top should be around $7.5k, correct? Not $12k-$14k which I was quoted. Especially when I ask them to explain and they get defensive. Let me ask you, if you hired a painter to paint your house at $100/hr and he was there for 40 hours and he had $2.5k in materials and you got a bill for $14k, would you be fine with it?

If your argument is you now have the skills to do it faster and better, isn't that the justification for $100/hr? I mean if you sucked and weren't fast, would you still be worth $100? I don't know what others think, but not to me....

We have become a society where it's get what you can when you can.....I come from an era where an honest days pay for an honest days work....

Look where Boeing is today....It's management destroyed a brand built by engineers that had integrity. Not some "quick fix" "quarter-by-quarter" mentality...There are many that want the Boeing management to face criminal charges, and based on what evidence they discover, I agree with them...I was a "Boeing or I'm not going" type of guy, and the greed and cost cutting has ruined it....

What are we as adults teaching younger generations?

Anyway, I've gone far afield here, but perhaps you get my point....Nothing would make me happier than having someone else do it for an honest number.
 
douglee25 said:
Oh I know it can be done. I did some smaller stuff getting started for myself. Cushions, pillows, canvas repairs, etc. Correct, not magic, but it definitely takes some skill and pre-thought.
Click to expand...

I enjoy learning. So do others. And that's what hobbies are, they are skill and learning events.

I don't discourage others from pursing different interest. As stated previously, canvas work can be a rewarding hobby, it has certainly been for me. I have zero interest in doing it as a business.
 
techmitch said:
Yup, all depends what "your" time is worth.
Click to expand...

That's philosophical to me.....Without getting into details, it is the most valuable thing to me...I am fortunate that I am in basically complete control of it....Meaning, it is far more valuable, to me, than money. In fact, I know I lose money every year due to my lifestyle. But, to what end?

Life is a precious thing....So is the way you live it....Taking your time to help others...not being greedy....character traits that I respect....I share and try and give my time to those deserving....

I could throw money at this, no question....It's just not me.

Further, I'm a life long learner....Meaning I don't think it's a good idea to let the mind sit idle....While sewing wasn't on my radar, nor in my wheelhouse, I don't think it's beyond my capabilities....
 
Boat Guy said:
Thanks for the update...It looks nice... Do you have a pict or could you explain better the "sliding tracks"?

Also, this is a '98 370? I guess you had the fiberglass top made into the arch?
Click to expand...
Remembered to grab some photos of the tracks last night, here you go. I think it's a pretty slick system, given the thickness of the Makrolon, I would never be able to roll it up, nor would I want to since that's what killed my previous eisenglass. The tracks let me just slide the sections back out of the way.

Slider 1.jpg

Slider 2.jpg

Slider 3.jpg
 
Quint4 said:
Let's all start a canvas business together! (.......in just a few short years we will all be demanding $100 an hour!)
Click to expand...

That would be great for the industry. Its been undervalued for a long time. Think about how many other semi-skilled folks charge $100 + per hr to come out and work on-site.....dont even have a facility to pay for. But hey, if you want to work cheap, go for it.
 
@GnrlPatton ,

Those are helpful, but raise more questions. When you first described the tracks, I thought it was a way to unzipper the lower section of the front panels and keep the top zippered while swinging it back to secure the bottom into a track that was secured to the bimini or fiberglass top.

From your pictures, it seems that this system is so you can hang the panels onto the aft section of the camper-top. Do they simply hang or are they secured on the bottom as well? Asking because I would think it might be an issue while underway...

The top looks great, BTW...and you've made me try and learn about Makrolon.
 
Boat Guy said:
@GnrlPatton ,

Those are helpful, but raise more questions. When you first described the tracks, I thought it was a way to unzipper the lower section of the front panels and keep the top zippered while swinging it back to secure the bottom into a track that was secured to the bimini or fiberglass top.

From your pictures, it seems that this system is so you can hang the panels onto the aft section of the camper-top. Do they simply hang or are they secured on the bottom as well? Asking because I would think it might be an issue while underway...

The top looks great, BTW...and you've made me try and learn about Makrolon.
Click to expand...
I've got 3 tracks in the back cockpit, 1 on each side holding 2 panels each, and one in the back holding 3 panels. All of the panels are attached at the bottom with either snaps or twist locks, my canvas guy reused all of the existing snaps when making the new panels. In addition to the snaps, each panel connects to the others with vertical zippers. To get on the boat, I unzip 2 zippers, undo the bottom snaps and then slide the panel aft. Pretty easy and slick! Attached is a pic (I think I posted it before) showing the entire back so you can see what I'm talking about. Look on the right side of the pic and you can see one of the panels slid back and just hanging on the track. I don't run like this, it's only to enter/exit the boat.

Camper Canvas complete-sm.jpg
 
Boat Guy said:
@GnrlPatton - Got it...understand....Agreed, pretty slick.

So it looks like they sewed around a dowel to create a piping to fit into the track. Do you know what that track is called?
Click to expand...
Yeah, he sewed around something, it wasn't a dowel because it's flexible enough to bend the panel for removal. I don't know what the track is, but I can ask him for more info and get back to you.
 
Boat Guy said:
@Quint4 - If you read through my posts I don't think you've seen me begrudge a guy earning an honest living....I asked for an honest, open, discussion, and for the most part, that's what we've all done here...CSR is a pretty respectful group of guys.

That said, when multiple guys in the industry can't explain their pricing, I have an issue with it...I think I'm in the minority...Most people love an over-extended economy and will pay whatever, whenever, like the music will never stop....That's just not me.

If you tell me a job takes 50hrs and you charge $100/hr plus materials (say $2.5k) the top should be around $7.5k, correct? Not $12k-$14k which I was quoted. Especially when I ask them to explain and they get defensive. Let me ask you, if you hired a painter to paint your house at $100/hr and he was there for 40 hours and he had $2.5k in materials and you got a bill for $14k, would you be fine with it?

If your argument is you now have the skills to do it faster and better, isn't that the justification for $100/hr? I mean if you sucked and weren't fast, would you still be worth $100? I don't know what others think, but not to me....

We have become a society where it's get what you can when you can.....I come from an era where an honest days pay for an honest days work....

Look where Boeing is today....It's management destroyed a brand built by engineers that had integrity. Not some "quick fix" "quarter-by-quarter" mentality...There are many that want the Boeing management to face criminal charges, and based on what evidence they discover, I agree with them...I was a "Boeing or I'm not going" type of guy, and the greed and cost cutting has ruined it....

What are we as adults teaching younger generations?

Anyway, I've gone far afield here, but perhaps you get my point....Nothing would make me happier than having someone else do it for an honest number.
Click to expand...

My comment was totally lighthearted and meant for us all to have a laugh. I 100% applaud your efforts and this post in general. The internet is not good at conveying my sarcasm at times.
I started my business after getting a 5k quote on some canvas for my boat!
 
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