Considering 1995 Sundancer 500

K

kishoreh

New Member
Aug 16, 2021
13
Aventura, FL
Boat Info
1995 Sundancer 500 - Searching
Engines
6v92 DDEC - Boatless
Hi All,

I am considering a 1995 Sundancer 500 with twin 6V92-DDEC 550hp this a project boat currently sitting dry dock for the past 3 years in the Bahamas.

Questions:

Anyone on here with experience with the 6V92 and anyone know of an experienced DD mechanic in Ft Lauderdale / Miami area that is willing to allow me to do some of the heavy lifting and pay by the hour / day to get the engines running. I want to understand the engines and boat so I am willing to get my hands dirty.

Other than the basics of checking the hull , deck , transom and stringers for hollow / soft spots anything specific to the Sea Rays that I should be looking for that is a show stopper and I should pass on the boat?

What coring did Sea Ray use in the mid 90's?

I fully expect to spend about 60K to get this boat to decent condition and will probably do as much of the work that I can with the understanding that I may need to add another $20K for unknowns along the way.

Any input from current Sundancer 500 owners would be appreciated.


Background if interested in reading:

They are asking $38K and the boat needs a lot of work mechanically and cosmetically.

I am looking at a few project boats in the 50 - 55 ft range to fit my long term needs.

I am going to use this as my office and liveaboard once I get this running and in decent shape.

I see prices have been inflated for the past couple years by 20-30% on boats across the board and it is a bit comical to see some of the prices being asked on some of the boats I have seen.

I see the Sundancer 500 from the early to mid 90's ranging from 120K - 150K online in running and decent shape with refits in the past 10 years and NADA is giving me a range of 120 - 135K

I am looking at the number being about 90K if I had to fire sale it once I get everything back in working order.

I am new to boat ownership but I am not new to restoring older toys. Currently restoring 2 20+ year older cars and bringing them back to life purchased them both at $2500 and have 10+ times that into each of them so I fully understand restoration costs but I like that I can customize them and make them my own with color combo , powder coating etc.
 
I appreciate the info RollerCoastr. I am going off the listing and need to verify once I see in person a lot of unknowns.

How do you like your 400?
 
I am semi familiar with that boat. At this point I think you could get it for next to zero dollars. Whoever owns it is paying storage fees every day it sits there, which has been a long time. I think you will have more in that boat than it would be worth when done. A 1995 should not be DDECs which you don't really want. If that boat was a deal, some flipper would have picked it up. We are getting ready to put ours up for sale, our price will be right around $100k. No, I am not trying to sell ours by talking you out of that one.
 
Nothing to add but it sounds exciting.

If you do go ahead with the purchase and rebuild please create a build thread so we can follow along.

This boat isn't a hurricane salvage is it? Moldy?
 
Sounds like you are well versed in taking on fixer upper projects which is awesome. Just to add to your inflation comment on boats for sale, that it also goes for anything marine related ie, parts, labor, storage. Doing it all yourself = time and time = money when it comes to storage. You can spend 20K in the blink of any eye and not even put a dent in the repair list. The 500 is a sweet boat but I would get a survey just as you would with a turn key retail boat. The last thing you want is to put all that money and sweat into a boat that in the end is not fit for resale. That being said for all we know this 500 could be a diamond in the rough with great bones just needing some love. Good luck however you proceed and please share pics if you move forward with it.
 
I snooped at the listing. She's definitely a '95 and as suspected, those are TA's not DDEC's. As Breeze mentioned, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. DDEC components are crazy expensive to service and the extra tuning/HP they provide is widely believed to be more than the block can handle.

Two years ago my neighbor bought a distressed/repo '95 500DA for about that same price. His was a worthy project boat. I have doubts about this one...?

His had canvas that needed to be replaced, but it protected the cockpit. The cockpit on this one is completely exposed to the elements and the interior is moldy. I'm afraid free would be too much for this boat, even if it were on the mainland.

Love my 400, thanks for asking. I've even lived aboard her, which brings up another issue. If I was a live-aboard again, I'd look for a boat with windows... There's been a 550DB for sale up here for a crazy-low price. What it needs isn't obvious in pics, but it looks like it has potential and IMO, a DB would be a much better live-aboard.
 
Hi all thanks for the responses:

Question: Is the build quality of the SR boats in the 90's fair/good/excellent?
IMHO most newer things today are built pretty bad with a high price tag and planned obsolescence.
The gas engines on the cars I am restoring are in great condition at 170K miles and 200K miles and these were built before 2000 and neglected when I bought them with loads of catch up on PM. I can't see a car in the past 10 years that doesn't fall apart after hitting 100K forget 200K.

bahamabreisus: Based on my conversation with the selling broker looks like a fix and flip reality show went sideways and the owner of the boat is trying to recoup what they can but as I have found in talking to some selling brokers on other boats is what some of the owners want for their boat and reality don't match when they are in this bad condition and I am not going to pay for the PO's mistakes. He has gotten offers between 20-30k and rejected them but as you mentioned at some point the storage costs start eating into whatever number he originally is expecting so we'll see where the deal goes. If you have any additional info on this boat on your end I appreciate any additional info.
Can you share some pics of your boat you never know I may come back and have a conversation with you in the end. What motors do you have and what year is your 500?

Little Ducky: I am not sure about Hurricane Salvage based on the pictures but I am in the process of doing some research if it has had that kind of history I will pass on the deal. It has been sitting dry dock for 3 years with no real protection so yes there is mold in the main cabin from the pictures.

Avenger: I am doing numbers and fully agree $20k is gone in a blink of an eye with boats. I was calling around about repowering the boat just to get some numbers and 2 - QSM 11 rebuilt engines would be about $80K not including controllers, labor and other add-ons but in life you have pay to play or stay on the sidelines. I don't have deep pockets by any stretch otherwise I would not be looking for project boats but I also like the idea of customizing them over time to my needs much of the 80's and 90's boats have quirky layouts, older technology and systems being in the tech industry I like some of the modern touches and updated layouts and designs but I am not going into debt for a 300+k newer boat.

RollerCoastr: I appreciate the additional info on the boat. On that 550DB what is your definition of crazy low price?

I will keep you all posted. Due to covid and the mess that everything was in I did not renew my passport so that is step one before I can head to the Bahamas to take a look at the boat.

Does anyone have any contacts in Freeport that has boat knowledge that would be open to look at the boat with me. I am open to paying for someone's time.
 
kishoreh said:
Hi all thanks for the responses:

Question: Is the build quality of the SR boats in the 90's fair/good/excellent?
Click to expand...

500DA's are tanks, and I promise this isn't just Sea Ray fan stuff. I was aboard my friend's '98 at 27 knots when he missed a channel marker and put us onto a 2 ft rocky shoal. Both engines stalled in a cloud of smoke and all the running gear was damaged. We got pulled off to discover that neither transmission was damaged. DDEC's have a low idle setting that we used to get home under her own power because the whole boat shook at regular idle. (kinda crazy in hindsight). We limped home on apx 6.5 bent propeller blades, but we made it. I'll never forget the chunks of fiberglass that were missing at haul-out. It's a cored hull, but there are sections near tunnels that are thick enough to hide a golf ball. No penetrating core damage, no leaks. I never want to hit a reef at 27 knots again, but if I do, I'll choose a 500DA.

kishoreh said:
On that 550DB what is your definition of crazy low price?
Click to expand...

Damn, I don't see the listing anymore. I shouldn't have teased you with it before I checked. I don't remember exactly but it was only double-figures. About half of the closest comp.
 
Hi Jim G:

I appreciate the welcome and the links will check them out.

I will be bringing the boat back to Ft Lauderdale if I move forward on the deal not quite at the retirement stage to head to the Bahamas for any extended time.

RollerCoastr: Interesting story so they are built like tanks good to know.
 
Last edited:
Anyone else notice what appears to be at least a portion of the bilge filled with engine oil?

upload_2021-8-17_14-13-44.png
 
kishoreh said:
Hi all thanks for the responses:

Question: Is the build quality of the SR boats in the 90's fair/good/excellent?
IMHO most newer things today are built pretty bad with a high price tag and planned obsolescence.
The gas engines on the cars I am restoring are in great condition at 170K miles and 200K miles and these were built before 2000 and neglected when I bought them with loads of catch up on PM. I can't see a car in the past 10 years that doesn't fall apart after hitting 100K forget 200K.

bahamabreisus: Based on my conversation with the selling broker looks like a fix and flip reality show went sideways and the owner of the boat is trying to recoup what they can but as I have found in talking to some selling brokers on other boats is what some of the owners want for their boat and reality don't match when they are in this bad condition and I am not going to pay for the PO's mistakes. He has gotten offers between 20-30k and rejected them but as you mentioned at some point the storage costs start eating into whatever number he originally is expecting so we'll see where the deal goes. If you have any additional info on this boat on your end I appreciate any additional info.
Can you share some pics of your boat you never know I may come back and have a conversation with you in the end. What motors do you have and what year is your 500?

Little Ducky: I am not sure about Hurricane Salvage based on the pictures but I am in the process of doing some research if it has had that kind of history I will pass on the deal. It has been sitting dry dock for 3 years with no real protection so yes there is mold in the main cabin from the pictures.

Avenger: I am doing numbers and fully agree $20k is gone in a blink of an eye with boats. I was calling around about repowering the boat just to get some numbers and 2 - QSM 11 rebuilt engines would be about $80K not including controllers, labor and other add-ons but in life you have pay to play or stay on the sidelines. I don't have deep pockets by any stretch otherwise I would not be looking for project boats but I also like the idea of customizing them over time to my needs much of the 80's and 90's boats have quirky layouts, older technology and systems being in the tech industry I like some of the modern touches and updated layouts and designs but I am not going into debt for a 300+k newer boat.

RollerCoastr: I appreciate the additional info on the boat. On that 550DB what is your definition of crazy low price?

I will keep you all posted. Due to covid and the mess that everything was in I did not renew my passport so that is step one before I can head to the Bahamas to take a look at the boat.

Does anyone have any contacts in Freeport that has boat knowledge that would be open to look at the boat with me. I am open to paying for someone's time.
Click to expand...

Here's my stab at a budget:

Boat - $20,000
Tow to FL - $5,000
New canvas/isenglass - $10,000
New/repair cockpit interior - $5,000
New/repair/clean cabin interior - $10,000
Swim platform repairs - $10,000 (cylinders, pump, lines?)
New generator - $20,000 installed
New engines - $100,000 installed
Plumbing/toilet/freshwater repairs - $10,000
Air conditioning repairs - $5,000
Fuel polishing/tank cleaning/disposal - $5,000
Replace missing electronics/helm controls - $5,000

I've got this project at $205k without any "risk" for the other things it'll inevitably need to be live-aboard worthy. Of course if the engines run it'll be half that...with any luck!
 
I dont get it. Stee’s numbers, i see $60k before he can spend 1 night on it. + insurance and marina fees. And at that point it is just a slip queen, aint going anywhere. This isnt a car you can restore in your garage on Saturday mornings. This project will eat your soul. Find another boat.
 
Hi Stee6043 , Pirate Lady

I appreciate the input and I have broken down the numbers fairly similar to what Stee6043 has done the engine status is the biggest factor in this deal otherwise it doesn't make sense to do the deal. I have not purchased the boat just looking at this and wanted to get some info on Sea Rays from current owners as this was not the original line of boats that I was looking at. I had my eye on a 55' Sunseeker Camargue but someone already put a offer on that so I have not made any final decisions. I am not a 20 year old emotional buyer I look at the reality of things and downside just gathering info and feedback to see what direction I want to go. If it is not this boat I will look at the next opportunity whether it is a Sea Ray or other brand.
 
Tell you this, i have always said on here, and somebody up thread said, i would never have a Sundancer as a liveaboard. Sedan bridge, with proper windows, living area, sofa, and sliding door. Sundancers are like when you lived in your parents basement.
PS. Look at Silverton, Trojan, Mainship or a trawler-style. They made a lot of Sedan Bridge style boats that function well as a LAB.
I love Sundancers, on my 6th. But i dont live on them.
 
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You asked about build quality. I’ve owned three SRs starting in 1979. That boat looked good and I ran it for 4000 hours. It had bad bones the day I bought it at the boat show but I did not know enough at the time to recognize the poor quality. The hull was not attached to the stringers in several places but it held together. Resale was quite good. The next was a 1986 30’ Express. The build quality was excellent except for the non glassed limber holes. Also bought that one new. It was in a showroom next to a brand new 28’ Bertram. Quality appeared to be identical to the eye. The SR had fully rotted stringers when I sold it 10 years later although I did not know that at the time. Later survey revealed that. The Bertram’s were not without issues in that era but the 28 is probably still fishing somewhere. The last SR was a 1993 37’ Express. It was the nicest looking of the three, also new. It leaked from day one and numerous warranty work was unsuccessful in fixing the leaks. There were numerous other issues with things breaking due to screws and fasteners being undersized. That was the worst boat we owned and I was glad to be rid of it after10 years. This is just one person’s experience with three new SRs. We switched brands and never regretted the change. The Tiara was an eye opener when it comes to quality. It was a quantum leap in quality and is still in great shape.
0205FAA2-E4DE-415A-B888-F35994D40B9F.jpeg
 
Wont bash SR, this my newest and its a 91. So i cant speak for quality on new ones. I can say they built very well back then, 30yo and not a leak anywhere. Hatches doors windows all tight. No soft decks. No soft transoms. Rock solid. Cant complain.
 
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