Death statistics, how about some meaningful numbers?

[Creekwood]

So just to clarify, you are all of the view that none of the shutdown was warranted and the roughly 2,000,000 potential deaths would be a risk you would take, even if you could turn back time today with perfect hindsight based on what you know today?

 

[Great Lakes]

So just to clarify, you are all of the view that none of the shutdown was warranted and the roughly 2,000,000 potential deaths would be a risk you would take, even if you could turn back time today with perfect hindsight based on what you know today?

The models showed us that (which we now know were drastically wrong) and I believe we took the correct measures to start. However, now that we know the deaths will align just north of a bad flu season.. At what point can we get back to work now? Does this virus have to be completely eradicated before we can go back to work? If we have a second wave will they shut us down again?

We need to slowly start interacting with others so we can build a herd immunity

 

[Golfman25]

Dr Birx said Wednesday that there's a "very acute second wave" coming.

So I guess that means we must lockdown for another 6-8 weeks once the second wave hits too, right? Otherwise the first wave shutdown meant nothing, right? Or does the "don't open the economy up too soon" crowd think that's going too far?

I guess what I'm wondering is where that line is. Whats too long for you?

If someone could answer that question that would be great.

This is all complete BS pushed by the "stay at home" Nazis. Look, I get it when we really didn't know what was happening, lack of testing, hospital capacity issues, and all that. However, we could very easily go back to living a somewhat normal life with the proper precautions. First, elderly and immune compromised are put on strict lockdown. Nobody in/out of nursing homes etc. The rest of us, can get back to life within reason. Get masks readily available (doesn't sound like we'll need all of them for the hospitals anymore), stock the stores with cleaning wipes and hand sanitizer. When you go out, wipe everything down and stay clean. Parks, marinas, and such should be fine with proper social distancing.

It may take a bit longer, but restaurants will need to reduce capacity. No large gatherings. Movie theaters, sporting events and the like will probably need to wait a while. As testing catches up, and the therapies come online we'll be able to manage.

 

[Creekwood]

The Covid numbers are being skewed all over the place right now.

But I have one question for you: "How many deaths from economic downturn do you view as acceptable?" And why? (OK, two questions)

If the numbers could be accurately predicted from both, I would pick the path that led to the least overall deaths. And that is the decision that our political leaders have made. I get it, you don’t agree and you would have not made that decision. That’s fine, vote accordingly.

 

[Creekwood]

The models showed us that (which we now know were drastically wrong) and I believe we took the correct measures to start. However, now that we know the deaths will align just north of a bad flu season.. At what point can we get back to work now? Does this virus have to be completely eradicated before we can go back to work? If we have a second wave will they shut us down again?

We need to slowly start interacting with others so we can build a hurd immunity

I agree 100%. Once we are sure that the vulnerable can be protected as best as we can. We are not there yet.

 

[Third Edition]

The computer models for those who will contract Covid-19 and those who will die from it keep being lowered.

Much like the computer models of climate sensitivity to CO2 keep getting revised downwards.

Computer models. GIGO (garbage in garbage out). The garbage in is the assumptions made that subsequently prove unsupportable. The Covid-19 responses were based on the now rejected computer models that showed many more contracting the illness and many more dying from it. The shelter in place was based on the rejected computer models. Time, now, to get to work.

 

[Third Edition]

I agree 100%. Once we are sure that the vulnerable can be protected as best as we can. We are not there yet.

The vulnerable are protected by not leaving their homes.

 

[CaptRonn]

If the numbers could be accurately predicted from both, I would pick the path that led to the least overall deaths. And that is the decision that our political leaders have made.

Nice way to not answer my question.

I get it, you don’t agree and you would have not made that decision. That’s fine, vote accordingly.

You're projecting.

 

[boatman37]

I have to laugh at folks saying the Covid-19 stimulus program(s) amount to socialism. Why is giving people back their money socialism? There are those who get without paying in. That IS socialism.

I agree but there are those that have never paid in that will be getting it. Wife has a former student that at 31 has never had a job, ever. No kids. Husband makes $15/hour but he was just laid off. They are thrilled because they are getting $2400 plus he gets unemployment plus an extra $600/week. They will be almost doubling their income off of this while both are sitting at home.

 

[Golfman25]

I was on here questioning the "models" early on. More important than models is reality. The reality is, we acted on information that way overestimated the effects of the virus. I can't tell you how many people I had to explain "we are not Italy" to mostly deaf ears. As reality takes hold, we need to revisit our decisions and act accordingly. Remember, the "experts" lied about wearing a mask. Now we are all wearing masks.

 

[Third Edition]

I agree but there are those that have never paid in that will be getting it. Wife has a former student that at 31 has never had a job, ever. No kids. Husband makes $15/hour but he was just laid off. They are thrilled because they are getting $2400 plus he gets unemployment plus an extra $600/week. They will be almost doubling their income off of this while both are sitting at home.

Yes, that is why I wrote: "There are those who get without paying in. That IS socialism."

 

[CaptRonn]

I was on here questioning the "models" early on. More important than models is reality. The reality is, we acted on information that way overestimated the effects of the virus. I can't tell you how many people I had to explain "we are not Italy" to mostly deaf ears. As reality takes hold, we need to revisit our decisions and act accordingly. Remember, the "experts" lied about wearing a mask. Now we are all wearing masks.

Unfortunately when dealing with politicians, and ideologues with an agenda, the resultant "Never let a crisis go to waste" kicks in. And we have seen it again. Yes, the numbers were wrong and highly manipulated, and in my opinion, intentionally. But the damage is done, now we can only hope it doesn't get worse.

Again, in my opinion, there is a reckoning coming in this country over this. And not what some are hoping this event would lead to. For the dishonest and corrupt news media, the tinpot dictator wannabes and a political party that desperately wants a "fundamental transformation", they've shit in their messkit on this one.

 

[RBB]

I believe the mortality rate is fairly
Reported. I realize it includes folks that
Was on deaths door anyway, so inflated
Some. On the side of confirmed cases
More than likely accurate. However I also think there is 1000’s of people who has it or had it that is not counted.
Hence a lot lower death rate.
I am not one to run to the doctor because I am having a couple bad days.
Most people are the same way I think.

 

[scottishseville]

Hi brace yourselves guys. This is a showstopper of a virus. In case I missed it it is Herd not Hurd immunity. You will not be boating anytime soon. Best wishes from Scotland.

 

[RBB]

Hi brace yourselves guys. This is a showstopper of a virus. In case I missed it it is Herd not Hurd immunity. You will not be boating anytime soon. Best wishes from Scotland.

Huh, been in my boat 3 days this week.
Marina operating.

 

[CaptRonn]

Hi brace yourselves guys. This is a showstopper of a virus. In case I missed it it is Herd not Hurd immunity. You will not be boating anytime soon. Best wishes from Scotland.

I'm boating here.

Besides, we're not saddled with a government healthcare system here.

Best Wishes from the US!

 

[BEH]

Just saw Cuomo making his daily "look at me, see how important I am" address.
He gave us the 'good news' then the terrible news. The bad news was there were 700 plus deaths today versus 500 plus yesterday..... What is not ever clarified with any certainty or believability is how many were deaths due only to the virus. According to various sources, on average, 150 plus of those deaths would occur in NYC daily alone. Of course 500 additional deaths is a horrible statistic and all of our hearts are heavy with grief for the loved ones dealing with their loss and prayers are with them. It would just be refreshing if the numbers reported were meaningful and put into perspective. Thinking people are capable of seeing thru the message and dealing with the reality but the masses are easily manipulated by fear and it is just intellectually dishonest of these politicians to craft and state the numbers to meet the narrative rather than be truthful and transparent with all of the truthful facts. people should see the actual numbers that matter such as how many are tested, positive and negative, active cases, number of those hospitalized and most important number of recovered cases. Some municipalities have Covid Dashboards for citizens to track and some have these numbers so why cant the media use those to shed a positive light? Answer..... Hilary Lost!!!
Carpe Diem

Maybe your President should do this in his daily press briefing.

 

[Woody]

Just saw Cuomo making his daily "look at me, see how important I am" address.
He gave us the 'good news' then the terrible news. The bad news was there were 700 plus deaths today versus 500 plus yesterday..... What is not ever clarified with any certainty or believability is how many were deaths due only to the virus. According to various sources, on average, 150 plus of those deaths would occur in NYC daily alone. Of course 500 additional deaths is a horrible statistic and all of our hearts are heavy with grief for the loved ones dealing with their loss and prayers are with them. It would just be refreshing if the numbers reported were meaningful and put into perspective. Thinking people are capable of seeing thru the message and dealing with the reality but the masses are easily manipulated by fear and it is just intellectually dishonest of these politicians to craft and state the numbers to meet the narrative rather than be truthful and transparent with all of the truthful facts. people should see the actual numbers that matter such as how many are tested, positive and negative, active cases, number of those hospitalized and most important number of recovered cases. Some municipalities have Covid Dashboards for citizens to track and some have these numbers so why cant the media use those to shed a positive light? Answer..... Hilary Lost!!!
Carpe Diem

What if I got melanoma a couple year ago because my wife and I too often frolicked naked on the boats bow. Now with only 6 months to live because of the cancer, if I caught Cov19 next week and died I'd still figure it was the virus that got me and not the cancer.

 

[JVM225]

I live in NY. I’m convinced that if I were to be run over by a bus tomorrow and succumbed to my injuries, Cuomo would somehow find a way to add me in to the COVID 19 count.
This state had serious financial problems before this thing hit.
Cuomo is a skilled politician who is playing this up as much as possible to get more federal dollars to burn.

 

[Creekwood]

Nice way to not answer my question.
.

Its kind of a ridiculous question that is impossible to answer. You asked "How many deaths from economic downturn do you view as acceptable?" How can anyone answer that? The obvious answer is zero. I could ask you the same question on the other side: " How many deaths from Coronovirus to you view as acceptable?" Maybe you say zero, maybe you have a number in mind?

That is why I answered in comparison to the number COVID-19 deaths, which is the whole point of what you were getting at, isn't it? Like i said, I think actions to save lives of those that are dying today (and more and more are dying as we type on our safe little keyboards) are worth taking with the risk of economic impact. Maybe more people will die of suicide caused by the economic strife. Maybe, but I don't think so. I think Americans are more resilient that you give them credit for.