Do we over think, over analyze and stress too much over our boats/engines?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SeaNile, Sep 12, 2021.

  1. SeaNile

    SeaNile Well-Known Member

    Aug 16, 2010
    Chadds Ford, PA
    2003 50 Sundancer
    2007 20 SunDeck
    Cummins QSM11
    Been boating my entire life and as far back as I can remember it seems like some (maybe us on these groups) are constantly worrying about the what if's, analyzing every tiny thing about their engine, examining what comes out of the exhaust ports, is it steam, smoke, if smoke what color smoke. Is it blue grey or grey blue, is there a hint of white in there, etc.

    Yes I absolutely realize the wealth of information that can be gathered by looking at all of examples mentioned above so I am not dismissing the use of diagnosing issues.

    Thinking back to the mid 80's in with outboards and VRO for oil injection. People were blocking off the oil injection shafts and still going with straight mix 50:1, etc. out of fear of the oil pump shaft breaking and therefore cooking an engine.

    I/we are surrounded by millions of diesel engines. Are these truckers, farmers and every other boat owner out there as obsessed as we on on this and other forums?

    My personal example, 90's the Cummins 4bta in some model boats were over propped causing many issues, the 3208 in 435hp was a "granade" waiting to explode, run away from Man engines, more recently the 3126 is a soft block engine, the 450 Cummins drops valves....I could go on and on with examples. Does that mean we avoid all 4bta, 3208 435hp, 3126 and 450 engines??

    Why am I asking this? Because when it comes to boat shopping it seems like every engine out there has issues. Are you telling me every 450/480 Cummins owner out there is stressed about the issues? Or it is ignorance is bliss?

    Now I ask this also admitting in my entire life of boating I have avoided any issues with my boats or engines. I'm sure if I personally experienced and the kick to the wallet of a dropped valve and head replacement I wouldn't even be thinking of all this stuff.

    I just struggle to think that every owner of these engines is as concerned as we are. Don't most of these owners just fire up their truck/large equipment/boat and go on with their day? Or does every owner get back to the dock, see a bit of soot on the transom and go "WTF is up with my engine" and then go crazy looking for things that could be wrong.

    I want to get to the boat, be confident in my purchase, start up the engines and enjoy my day.

    Paralysis by analysis when it comes to shopping for a boat/engine.
     
    RBB and Nater Potater like this.
  2. Carver370

    Carver370 Well-Known Member

    Mar 30, 2007
    New Buffalo Michigan
    2000 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer - Diesel
    T-3116 CAT - 350 HP
    IMHO, every engine has some sort of problem if not taken care of. People have a tendency to complain on the internet but you rarely see people boasting about how much they love their particular engine.

    Every engine will have issues if its not running in the proper parameters ie over propped, under propped severely etc.
     
    MonacoMike likes this.
  3. Beech2000

    Beech2000 Active Member

    241
    Jul 11, 2015
    NW Georgia USA
    1990 Sundancer 350
    2020 454 gen VI
    Hurth V-Drive's
    7.1 KW Kohler 5ECD
    I'm in agreement to monitor all signs of potential problems within reason. Your right not to sweet the small stuff if running good and reliable. This is true for both Gas and Diesels. Machines can drive us nuts if we think about it to much.
     
  4. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    Boatless in WA
    No motor
    I've never been one to sweat that small stuff or worry about "what if...". I think that comes from my career as a cop. I knew some cops who did the "what if..." game very time they were in uniform. I always expected we cops would hear about one of them committing suicide by swallowing his front sight.

    I always just figured if I got shot it was my time to go.

    I think that same attitude has helped me get through this cancer crap so well.

    As to engines, I never thought about it when we were on the boat. In the 11 years we owned her I had one issue with the port transmission ($25K repair), one with the starter on the stbd engine ($15K repair), one to replace the genset ($15K repair) and one following a close lightening strike ($15K repair).

    All of those were covered by my insurance ("sudden and unforseable event not the cause of poor maintenance or lack thereof"). All of those $70K repairs didn't cost me a penny but I did profit from them when the insurance company paid the bill. I got new gauges on both helms, got new electronics on both helms, and got a brand spankin' new 15KW Westerbeke genset and some extras.

    There's a lesson there: Do NOT cheap out on your insurance policy. Buy good insurance and sleep better at night.
     
  5. Nater Potater

    Nater Potater Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 19, 2020
    Southwest Idaho
    1992 300DA Sundancer
    Twin Merc Alpha I Gen II I/O's with 5.7 V8's
    Yep, and from what I gather from the Cummins, Ecoboost Mustang, Norton, and this forum, it's across the board. From my point of view, most of those concerns are from people that are new to both the machine they're asking about, and machines in general. Being the old fart that I am, I'm right at home with the '92 boat as it's carrying a pair of Chevy 350s, and the Norton, as the most sophisticated aspect of them is the electronic ignition. As for the '16 truck and '18 Mustang, there's so much monkey motion going on in there that I get paranoid every time a new noise or warning light pops up. As time goes on and more experience is gathered with said vehicles, the less the knee jerk reaction happens. With a forum as far reaching as one like this, we have to accept that there'll be lots of people with new and exciting things happening to them that they've never seen before. That's where we can help by either alleviating their fears, or guiding them in (hopefully) the right direction.
     
  6. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Member

    54
    Jul 29, 2021
    San Francisco Delta
    2002 Sundancer 360 with twin Mercruiser 8.1, velvet drives
    8.1 Mercruisers with direct drives
    So, Gofirstclass, what is YOUR insurance policy, your carrier?
    Thanks
     
    skolbe, dtfeld and SeaNile like this.
  7. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature
    E9AC7C10-03D6-4358-A5D3-0895088746DE.jpeg If you want to see examples of overthinking and obsessing about small meaningless details check out some of the Porsche discussion boards. Club Sea Ray looks pretty good by comparison.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    Nepenthe likes this.
  8. Dani-Lu

    Dani-Lu Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2007
    Delray Beach, Fl
    2001 410DA
    3126 Cats
    IMS Bearing! :)
     
    brewster16 and SeaNile like this.
  9. SeaNile

    SeaNile Well-Known Member

    Aug 16, 2010
    Chadds Ford, PA
    2003 50 Sundancer
    2007 20 SunDeck
    Cummins QSM11

    Been there done that x5 and also had a gated 360 Modena for a while. Definitely some obsessive owners. The IMS issue and preventive replacement is a legendary discussion!
     
    brewster16 likes this.
  10. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature
    1FB5382F-961D-42A9-8659-BF456B5D10B4.jpeg
    PZero tires are junk is another endless discussion. You would think Porsche must know something about tires. But no. (;-) The idiots keep using PZeros as original equipment. However, I digress. Back to the original thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  11. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    Boatless in WA
    No motor
    My insurance agent was Bristol insurance group in Seattle and my insurance company was Travelers. I wish I could remember the name of my agent. She was spectacular in the handling of my insurance needs and my claims. (My cancer has significantly reduced my memory)

    Which brings me to my most important point--> Get to know your insurance agent. Not the owner of the company but the person who will be handling your claims in the future. Treat that person like a God. Buy them lunch periodically, send them a Christmas card, etc.

    My agent and I talked a few times a year. She arranged for me to get freebie tickets to the Seattle Boat Show and I made it a point to stop in to see her when we went to the show.
     
    Johnnywhip, Nater Potater and SeaNile like this.
  12. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    My boat goes into storage in a month….. so looking forward to a worry free night sleep :)
     
    Christopher Mesker, OllieC and RBB like this.
  13. brewster16

    brewster16 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    One more point should be made to round out this discussion....these forums are a great (and enjoyable) "distraction" from the daily grind. Obsessing over this stuff engages us in a very satisfying way, free of the realities of real life. We love our toys and we enjoy using them, thinking about them, and bantering about them with other like minded folks!
     
    Shaps, Nater Potater and SeaNile like this.
  14. 89P270

    89P270 Active Member

    208
    Feb 2, 2017
    Pacific Northwest
    1989 Pachanga 270
    1997 270DA
    Twin Mercruiser 357 4V alpha's
    While I dont know Diesels as I have never owned (and Steered clear because of) I will give a real world example of why having as much knowledge about boats, engines, outdrives is very important. That example is the Volvo Penta XDP drive. Most you probably already know the bellows and u-joint failure rate of this composite drive - tons or documentation all over the internet and litigation against Volvo Penta about it. These drives were put in a whole lot of boats from what, about 2000 to about 2008ish. Expensive boats - twin engine set ups with BBCs even. While I have never owned a XDP set up, I can tell you having this knowledge will keep me away from any boat with an XDP. Without this information you could walk into a 6 figure mistake . I have argued with many a dealer (or more correctly their sales rep) showing boats like a 32' (2006) Four Winns with a twin 350/XDP set up that their 65K price is WAY inflated as the day you drive the boat off the lot your going to have to put newer Ocean X drives in. Because you have this information at hand, you can argue down the price of said Four Winns - Noting the cost of replacment drives, or simply walk away.

    So, if I was an owner of an XDP set up, having this information would allow me to either 1) increase the maintenance of the bellows and u-joints to keep them from prematurely failing or 2) plan for Ocean X upgrade while I used the boat with the XDPs waiting for them to blow up.

    I say worry about every component on your drive train because you will be PROACTIVE and not REACTIVE and avoiding the call to Vessel Assist on that long weekend to Friday Harbor. I have been that guy in high tide/current Puget Sound and its no fun (boat was a Rinker 2002 342 Viesta Vee - Failure was due to lack of knowledge/focus on mechanical systems).
     
    Nater Potater likes this.
  15. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx 502 mag
    2005 Baja 242 islander 496
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    496 mag B1
    Anything mechanical thing can "blow up"if not maintained
     
    Little Ducky likes this.
  16. Little Ducky

    Little Ducky Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2017
    Dickson, TN / Chattanooga, TN
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin EFI 5.0L w/Alphas
    Kohler 4kW
    I would think we stress less then airplane owners but more then owners of cars.

    Some of you on here go where you can't see land for quite some time and some of us are inland only.

    I think our stress levels are appropriate for our situations.

    I really like owning the old barge and most maintenance cost can be planned. I didn't have the need for a new engine planned for last year so that one caught me off guard. I can just imagine a new diesel $$$$ vs my 5.0 $$.

    That could sink someone's boat ownership in a hurry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    Nater Potater likes this.
  17. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    1998 450 Sundancer, Achilles dinghy w/15hp
    3126 Cat's
    Travelers which includes mechanical coverage >> Amy Carlson 206-801-3401 @ Basin Insurance
     
  18. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    Boatless in WA
    No motor
    A savior has come forward to help. Shaps sent me a message reminding me that in an earlier post I mentioned that her name is Robin.

    So, if you live in the PNW it would behoove you to give Robin a call and ask her if she has any recommendations about your insurance coverage.

    I will say that if you have a boat and have a traditional "boat policy" it might be time to take a look at a "yacht policy". Yea, it's a few bucks more but over the time we owned Beachcomber it saved us about $70K plus I got new boat stuff in the deal. You don't need a yacht to benefit from a yacht policy. :cool:
     
    Johnnywhip and Nater Potater like this.
  19. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    1998 450 Sundancer, Achilles dinghy w/15hp
    3126 Cat's
    Policy/Endorsements 44101 44116 44141 (01-09) Travelers Yacht Policy Jacket (09-08) Additional Insured Endorsement (07-12) Leading Edge Coverage Endorsement 44147 WA (09-08) Amendatory Endorsement -Washington 44155 (09-08) Mechanical Breakdown Coverage Credits Boating Education Credit Account Credit Safety Equipment Credit Navigational Information Yacht Total Premium Included Included Included
     
    Nater Potater likes this.
  20. Little Ducky

    Little Ducky Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2017
    Dickson, TN / Chattanooga, TN
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin EFI 5.0L w/Alphas
    Kohler 4kW
    Thumb's up for Travelers Mechanical Break Down Coverage...... it pays.

    Just make sure you keep up with your maintenance because they ask a bunch of questions.
     
    Johnnywhip and Nater Potater like this.

Share This Page

Show Sidebar