The U.S. contribution to NATO has certainly been substantial and vital but the U.S. is a global superpower with interests that extend far beyond Europe. Presidents from Harry Truman onward have all considered membership in NATO vital to American military interests. The exception is Trump. U.S. politicians on both sides of the aisle condemned Trump's typically divisive and inaccurate remarks concerning NATO countries being "in default" or not paying their "fair share". The president has also said "NATO was going out of business" before he came along, suggesting member states weren't dedicating enough money to defense — money that they spend on their forces, but which does not directly go to NATO as an organization. Trump echoed these sentiments in another tweet, taking credit for the increase in defense spending among NATO members in recent years. That was an outright lie. The 2% GDP commitment was made by all NATO partners in 2014, when former President Barack Obama was still in office. Annual defense spending from European member states and Canada, as a share of their GDP, has been steadily increasing since 2015 — all before Trump was president. The 2% goal is set to be realized by 2024. As you said, many have already met the goal and all other NATO countries are on track to meet it. U.S. contributions will decline. Trump ignored all that, playing to his base with more deception to pump up his own tires.
Does anyone here think there will be any traction to this Italy gate?
- Thread starter Carpediem44DB
- Start date
The U.S. contribution to NATO has certainly been substantial and vital but the U.S. is a global superpower with interests that extend far beyond Europe. Presidents from Harry Truman onward have all considered membership in NATO vital to American military interests. The exception is Trump. U.S. politicians on both sides of the aisle condemned Trump's typically divisive and inaccurate remarks concerning NATO countries being "in default" or not paying their "fair share". The president has also said "NATO was going out of business" before he came along, suggesting member states weren't dedicating enough money to defense — money that they spend on their forces, but which does not directly go to NATO as an organization. Trump echoed these sentiments in another tweet, taking credit for the increase in defense spending among NATO members in recent years. That was an outright lie. The 2% GDP commitment was made by all NATO partners in 2014, when former President Barack Obama was still in office. Annual defense spending from European member states and Canada, as a share of their GDP, has been steadily increasing since 2015 — all before Trump was president. The 2% goal is set to be realized by 2024. As you said, many have already met the goal and all other NATO countries are on track to meet it. U.S. contributions will decline. Trump ignored all that, playing to his base with more deception to pump up his own tires.
Pirate Lady
Well-Known Member
Hey guys, not sure how this fits in discussion, but I got a friend looks chinese, Chinese last name, born here, no accent, but because his father travels back to China once a year to see the old folks, he is banned from any govt job and any company with a govt contract. He never been China, don’t matter. Brilliant software engineer. Don’t matter. Barred because of his ancestry. It ain’t right.
You're all over the map. If nobody is going to war, what do we need NATO for? It's a relic of the cold war.
Agreed. Just responding to the misinformation -Trump, what a surprise - around Woody's remarks concerning NATO.
boatman37
Well-Known Member
- Jun 6, 2015
- 4,251
- Boat Info
- 2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
- Engines
- 5.7 Merc BIII
Not saying you got bad info but I work on a federal contract and we have quite a few that were born in other countries. Not sure if China was one but I have a guy on my team that was born in France. And we work with a bunch of federal employees with strong accents. I'm no expert on accents but some sound middle eastern, some Asian, etc. And not just a few but quite a few. I doubt China is singled out. If him specifically can't get the required clearance there may be other reasons? I know they dig deep on those. I was unemployed for a few months before this job and they wanted details on how I was able to pay my bills during that time. Not saying you are wrong but having been through it I'm betting there are other reasons
There's no process that "bans" anyone from government jobs or from companies with government contracts. More likely there is some sort of problem with him getting a security clearance and that could be for lots of reasons. Anyone with foreign relatives (from any country) is going to have somewhat of a harder time getting cleared, just from the need to investigate those relatives. Companies who need employees, usually immediately, will likely not want to wait for that process to happen. He could have also attempted to gain a clearance and it was denied. If so, there is loads of due process for a person to overturn a denial. That said, there are loads of government jobs and jobs at companies with government contracts which don't require a clearance and there would be no bar to him being hired for one of those.
- Mar 11, 2013
- 6,902
- Boat Info
- Sara Belle
2005 Weekender 215
- Engines
- Mercruiser 5.0 mpi, Bravo III
Maybe you misremembered the previous President and administration who wanted to “fundamentally” change America. I believe he ran on hope and change. Maybe that’s where the slogan Make America Great Again came from....I’m just spit balling tho...
edit: now we have the “bring back better” . Is that bring back better a fundamental change? Better bring back better...more better...
Last edited:
Woody
Well-Known Member
Trumps a bad crude dude, I get it. Set that aside.
He didn't just suggest member states weren't dedicating enough money to defense.....you actually were not dedicating enough money to defense. The 2% guideline was actually set in 2006. Like I said even Bush was pushing on NATO Europe/Canada to invest more rather than less and less each year. When Obama took over he continued pushing, there was a refreshed commitment. Then Trump took over and you all deserved some more pushing. Your efforts to meet that commitment aren't very impressive. This from NATO...
This from NATO
In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of two per cent of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to spending on defence. This guideline principally serves as an indicator of a country’s political will to contribute to the Alliance’s common defence efforts. Some Allies may need to spend more than this to develop the capabilities that the Alliance asks of them. Additionally, the defence capacity of each member country has an important impact on the overall perception of the Alliance’s credibility as a politico-military organisation.
The combined wealth of the non-US Allies, measured in GDP, exceeds that of the United States. However, non-US Allies together spend less than half of what the United States spends on defence. This imbalance has been a constant, with variations, throughout the history of the Alliance and more so since the tragic events of 11 September 2001…
Today, the volume of the US defence expenditure represents more than two thirds of the defence spending of the Alliance as a whole…. it should be noted that the Alliance relies on the United States for the provision of some essential capabilities, including for instance, in regard to intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electronic warfare.
While the 2% of GDP guideline alone is no guarantee that money will be spent in the most effective and efficient way to acquire and deploy modern capabilities, it remains, nonetheless, an important indicator of the political resolve of individual Allies to devote to defence a relatively small, but still significant, level of resources at a time of considerable international uncertainty and economic adversity. In 2014, three Allies spent 2 per cent of GDP or more on defence; this went up to nine in 2019.
Pirate Lady
Well-Known Member
It was the clearance thing, He was applying at NSA. He was told he couldnt get clearance because his father travels to china.
HawkX66
Well-Known Member
- Jul 27, 2020
- 1,344
- Boat Info
- "Tread Knot"
1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA
2020 F350 6.7L
- Engines
- 454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
Complete fabrication.
Not surprised.
Phasma
Phasma2128
Will
It's not the greatest country in the world, professor, that's my answer.
Moderator
[pause] You're saying—
Will
Yes.
Moderator
Let's talk about—
Will
Fine. [to the liberal panelist] Sharon, the NEA is a loser. Yeah, it accounts for a penny out of our paychecks, but he [gesturing to the conservative panelist] gets to hit you with it anytime he wants. It doesn't cost money, it costs votes. It costs airtime and column inches. You know why people don't like liberals? Because they lose. If liberals are so fuckin' smart, how come they lose so GODDAM ALWAYS!
And [to the conservative panelist] with a straight face, you're going to tell students that America's so starspangled awesome that we're the only ones in the world who have freedom? Canada has freedom, Japan has freedom, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, Australia, Belgium has freedom. Two hundred seven sovereign states in the world, like 180 of them have freedom.
And you—sorority girl—yeah—just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there are some things you should know, and one of them is that there is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we're the greatest country in the world. We're seventh in literacy, twenty-seventh in math, twenty-second in science, forty-ninth in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, third in median household income, number four in labor force, and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies. None of this is the fault of a 20-year-old college student, but you, nonetheless, are without a doubt, a member of the WORST-period-GENERATION-period-EVER-period, so when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about?! Yosemite?!!!
We sure used to be. We stood up for what was right! We fought for moral reasons, we passed and struck down laws for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were, and we never beat our chest. We built great big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases, and cultivated the world's greatest artists and the world's greatest economy. We reached for the stars, and we acted like men. We aspired to intelligence; we didn't belittle it; it didn't make us feel inferior. We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election, and we didn't scare so easy. And we were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed. By great men, men who were revered. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one—America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.
Will
[to moderator] Enough?
Taken from the tv show ‘The Newsroom’
In my opinion one of the greatest speeches I’ve ever seen even though it was “just a tv show”
It's not the greatest country in the world, professor, that's my answer.
Moderator
[pause] You're saying—
Will
Yes.
Moderator
Let's talk about—
Will
Fine. [to the liberal panelist] Sharon, the NEA is a loser. Yeah, it accounts for a penny out of our paychecks, but he [gesturing to the conservative panelist] gets to hit you with it anytime he wants. It doesn't cost money, it costs votes. It costs airtime and column inches. You know why people don't like liberals? Because they lose. If liberals are so fuckin' smart, how come they lose so GODDAM ALWAYS!
And [to the conservative panelist] with a straight face, you're going to tell students that America's so starspangled awesome that we're the only ones in the world who have freedom? Canada has freedom, Japan has freedom, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, Australia, Belgium has freedom. Two hundred seven sovereign states in the world, like 180 of them have freedom.
And you—sorority girl—yeah—just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there are some things you should know, and one of them is that there is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we're the greatest country in the world. We're seventh in literacy, twenty-seventh in math, twenty-second in science, forty-ninth in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, third in median household income, number four in labor force, and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies. None of this is the fault of a 20-year-old college student, but you, nonetheless, are without a doubt, a member of the WORST-period-GENERATION-period-EVER-period, so when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about?! Yosemite?!!!
We sure used to be. We stood up for what was right! We fought for moral reasons, we passed and struck down laws for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were, and we never beat our chest. We built great big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases, and cultivated the world's greatest artists and the world's greatest economy. We reached for the stars, and we acted like men. We aspired to intelligence; we didn't belittle it; it didn't make us feel inferior. We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election, and we didn't scare so easy. And we were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed. By great men, men who were revered. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one—America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.
Will
[to moderator] Enough?
Taken from the tv show ‘The Newsroom’
In my opinion one of the greatest speeches I’ve ever seen even though it was “just a tv show”
Last edited:
