Electrical outlet in engine room?

[Cocktail Time]

Guys, I was trying to help someone on facebook with an issue that seems to be related to a GFCI outlet. I had the same boat ('95 300DA) and know it pretty well and was surprised when several people chimed in that they have factory GFCI outlets in their engine room.

I have always thought that was a big no no and against ABYC rules to have any 110v outlet in an ER. If the plug came loose around fumes there is gonna be a spark. Am I wrong? Does anyone else have a Sea Ray installed GFCI in their ER?

 

[DWABoat]

We had one installed by Silver Ships (Mobile) when they built our most recent 45-footer. It was done to ABYC standards BUT the boat is all diesel. I don’t know if they goofed up or if the diesel makes a difference?

 

[DWABoat]

I can confirm my 2001 280DA with generator does NOT have a 110v AC outlet in the engine compartment.

 

[bbwhitejr]

To my knowledge, totally against ABYC standards. I have never seen a gas boat with a 110v outlet in the bilge. Diesels have them all the time. Mine has one mounted on the bulkhead behind the engines.

Bennett

 

[370Dancer]

It's not dangerous to have an outlet in the bilge in a gas boat, but it's DEADLY to plug something into that outlet if it takes power right as you plug it in. Spark + fumes = new boat, new husband, new kids, etc.
I don't think ABYC's lawyers would ever let them condone a non ignition protected anything in a bilge. Must say, I agree. Diesel doesn't have anywhere near the same flash point as gas.

 

[NotHerDecision]

My 2001 460 diesel boat has one factory installed

 

[paulswagelock]

It is not against code to have one in an engine room of a gas boat. Now, using it as a utility outlet would be unwise and against the intent. You could for instance have an outlet (gfci protected) with your battery charger permanently plugged into it. There are some specs that the friction plug must be able to withstand 6 pounds of force for a minute without giving, but is is allowed by abyc.

 

[bajturner]

Diesels have them all the time. Mine has one mounted on the bulkhead behind the engines.

Bennett, do you know if that was a factory option or something that was added by an owner?

 

[Stee6043]

It is not against code to have one in an engine room of a gas boat. Now, using it as a utility outlet would be unwise and against the intent. You could for instance have an outlet (gfci protected) with your battery charger permanently plugged into it. There are some specs that the friction plug must be able to withstand 6 pounds of force for a minute without giving, but is is allowed by abyc.

Could an outlet, particularly GFI, ever qualify as "ignition protected"? I wouldn't expect safety standards to rely on "intent" to use?

I've always heard outlets would not be allowed w/gas (and the internet never lies ) so your post is intriguing.

 

[paulswagelock]

To be clear, I would never put one in there. However, I do think using an outlet as the power source for an approved device is allowed if it meets the friction rating. The plug does not need to be explosion proof no different than if you had used lug terminals. The spark is on the disconnect which is not normal or expected.

 

[sbw1]

Tiara has been installing them for years, always high in the bilge and accessible only when the hatch is open. This must be allowed or they would never install them. I assume SR could do the same if they chose to. You can also see one of the 110v fluorescent engine room lights in the top left corner of the photo. This engine room has lots of lighting and is very bright.

 

[Henry Boyd]

My feeling on this topic is that while the outlet itself might be “safe” in a gas engine compartment using the rationale that as long as disconnecting does not create a spark it’s safe, the use of the items connected to the outlet is potentially unsafe. In Boston a few years ago we had an event where workers were on a boat working in the engine compartment. They were using a corded electrical tool that sparked a fuel explosion, burning both of them requiring hospitalization and resulted in a fire that destroyed the boat. Where it was plugged in is irrelevant, it was the use of the tool that created the problem.

That does raise the argument of personal choice, and brings out protestations to give users the benefit of being too smart to do something unsafe. My experience of being an expert witness in many suits that involved personal injury in transportation industry settings is that while there are many knuckleheads, there are far more intelligent, trained people who know safety protocols, normally practice them who, one time decided not to follow them.

If you have a gas boat, and want to install a AC powered device. Don’t use an outlet, rather use a utility box and properly wire the device.

EDIT: The presumption is the AC device is ignition proof such as an ER heater for gas engine compartments, marine AC circulation pump etc.

 

[Cocktail Time]

All good, thanks for the input. I stand corrected. Now I'm trying to figure out where to put one in my ER. I didn't want to be called out on a survey in the future. I also have diesels.

 

[Henry Boyd]

All good, thanks for the input. I stand corrected. Now I'm trying to figure out where to put one in my ER. I didn't want to be called out on a survey in the future. I also have diesels.

If you have diesels its an entirely different situation. Diesel is significantly less volatile than gasoline.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Bennett, do you know if that was a factory option or something that was added by an owner?

It looks identical to the one in the long compartment right beside the sliding glass door in the cockpit. I assumed it was OEM on the boat....I use it to plug in my bilge heater in the winter and I run a small fan in the bilge in the summer to cut down on condensation.....

Bennett

 

[ttmott]

Here are some facts:

1. GFCI has no relationship with ignition protection. GFCI does not prevent "arcing and sparking" in an electrical disconnect or receptacle.
2. Receptacles and other non-ignition protected electrical devices (intrinsically safe electrical devices are exempt) are not allowed within the same enclosure / space as gasoline, propane and/or natural gas. The engine room of a gasoline powered vessel is such a space.
3. Diesel powered vessels are exempt.

There was an earlier comment on a charger/converter plugged into a receptacle in the engine room of a gasoline powered vessel. This is not compliant to the NEC nor ABYC. Now if that receptacle was within a rated sealed enclosure or located up within the boat's gunnels then a different story.
There was another comment that the "receptacle" being in within the engine room of a gasoline powered vessel is not a violation (or something like that). It is a code violation and a non-approved device within the area.
Keep in mind that if you had a claim on your insurance due to an incident and the investigation found a non-compliant installation wither the cause or not you may quite likely be holding the bag. Or, worse yet someone gets hurt. Is it worth it?

 

[sbw1]

Here are some facts.

1. Receptacles and other non-ignition protected electrical devices (intrinsically safe electrical devices are exempt) are not allowed within the same enclosure / space as gasoline, propane and/or natural gas. The engine room of a gasoline powered vessel is such a space

There was another comment that the "receptacle" being in within the engine room of a gasoline powered vessel is not a violation (or something like that). It is a code violation and a non-approved device within the area.

As previously mentioned Tiara does it and the boats are certified by the relevant governing authorities. Not sure your "facts" are factual.

 

[ttmott]

View attachment 83410 View attachment 83409
As previously mentioned Tiara does it and the boats are certified by the relevant governing authorities. Not sure your "facts" are factual.

It appears that your boat manufacturer has a rated receptacle (remember I said a "rated device") installed in that it energizes after full contact and insertion of the plug or they have a waiver of some sort in place. These devices also require a six pound pull-out resistance. These are common but rather expensive receptacles. We (in my business) use them and rated explosion proof twist lock receptacles for our aerospace work routinely.
You should be cautious on these types of statements and recommendations to those that don't completely understand the hazards. I would hate to see someone implement and have a serious shunt... Please reference ABYC E-11 para 11.5.1.3

 

[JVM225]

I need a 110 outlet/receptacle in my bilge and another in my transom trunk.
Projects on my “to do” list.

 

[hillsideshortleg]

Well I just added a receptacle in my engine room up on the side near the batteries for a dedicated charger / maintainer then came in to see whats new on Clubsearay and read this disheartening post. LOL