Electronics Upgrade Question- Seatalk1/2/ng

Thanks for the input and guidance Tom and Henry. Looks like I'm close to getting where I need to be. I would like to avoid for now running the Backbone all the way from the engine room if I can tie into the helm harness. I still have the original version of Smart Craft DV.
Cheers CD
Just an observation - you will have well over a boat-buck in the parts and pieces to get and convert the J1939.
The Smartcraft to NMEA 2000 converters are not cheap either....
Maybe time to change the DV to VV??
The only down side is that change will loose CAN 3 (Mercury deleted support for CAN 3 when VV came out) which is your generator's data if your boat has that option.
 
Henry - I don't understand your first comment. Is there something not clear in what I posted? These are data and not power connections....
Tom

My point was that while hacking the engine harness may be mechanically simple, it is not without risk.

To answer your question, to anyone without training what you outlined is incomprehensible beyond G and H. For example, what does CAN 2 mean? How do you identify pin G or H?

You solution has a very limited audience that both understand it, or have the expertise to execute it.
 
My point was that while hacking the engine harness may be mechanically simple, it is not without risk.

To answer your question, to anyone without training what you outlined is incomprehensible beyond G and H. For example, what does CAN 2 mean? How do you identify pin G or H?

You solution has a very limited audience that both understand it, or have the expertise to execute it.

Peace - Thought audience was one (Carpediem) whom is technically savvy (at least based upon our past exchanges) plus I attached the drawings. So, are you recommending we don't post alternative methods if technically complex or carry some risk? I can get good with this if folks desire; just trying to help.....

Tom
 
Peace - Thought audience was one (Carpediem) whom is technically savvy (at least based upon our past exchanges) plus I attached the drawings. So, are you recommending we don't post alternative methods if technically complex or carry some risk? I can get good with this if folks desire; just trying to help.....

Tom

No I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying when you suggest something that takes above average skills, consider the whole audience, all 10,000 plus of varying skill level. Especially if your advice could have expensive repercussions if misinterpreted or misapplied.

I am also not suggesting you dumb your advice down, just warn people if your advice could backfire. For example, if someone with a gas boat jumps pins G and H with the 12 volt power on the nmea2000 net to get a “free” nmea2000 gateway, it will destroy about $2K per engine ECM. Was it stupid on their part? Yup, but YOU told them it was ok. If it was me, I’d be upset someone took my advice and was harmed. Somehow I think you would as well.
 
No I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying when you suggest something that takes above average skills, consider the whole audience, all 10,000 plus of varying skill level. Especially if your advice could have expensive repercussions if misinterpreted or misapplied.

I am also not suggesting you dumb your advice down, just warn people if your advice could backfire. For example, if someone with a gas boat jumps pins G and H with the 12 volt power on the nmea2000 net to get a “free” nmea2000 gateway, it will destroy about $2K per engine ECM. Was it stupid on their part? Yup, but YOU told them it was ok. If it was me, I’d be upset someone took my advice and was harmed. Somehow I think you would as well.
I am a happy to get free advice but also understand the old adage: its only worth what you pay for it. Anyone who just runs with free advice and ends up frying something because they did not verify the operation kind of deserves what they get. I appreciate both of your positions, Tom has given some very extensive data and lengthy clear explanations concerning the networking topic in the past which really helped me begin to wrap my head around the system I'm looking to build. I get Henry's concern but you just can't control how people will ultimately use information that is posted. I hope no one that truly has good knowledge to share would not hold back because some idiot may miss-use it. But I digress. I just ordered a Smartcraft Multi Engine gateway from the guys at Sea Board Marine. It will plug into my J Box at the Helm and then plug into the STNG backbone to display on the gs165. I should still see my genset data on the DV that way. I hope I understand that correctly. $435 ain't nothin but its less expensive that going VV7
Thanks again for the guidance and knowledge guys
Carpe Diem
 
I am a happy to get free advice but also understand the old adage: its only worth what you pay for it. Anyone who just runs with free advice and ends up frying something because they did not verify the operation kind of deserves what they get. I appreciate both of your positions, Tom has given some very extensive data and lengthy clear explanations concerning the networking topic in the past which really helped me begin to wrap my head around the system I'm looking to build. I get Henry's concern but you just can't control how people will ultimately use information that is posted. I hope no one that truly has good knowledge to share would not hold back because some idiot may miss-use it. But I digress. I just ordered a Smartcraft Multi Engine gateway from the guys at Sea Board Marine. It will plug into my J Box at the Helm and then plug into the STNG backbone to display on the gs165. I should still see my genset data on the DV that way. I hope I understand that correctly. $435 ain't nothin but its less expensive that going VV7
Thanks again for the guidance and knowledge guys
Carpe Diem
Here is some pertinent information for you - https://www.sbmar.com/community/topic/nmea-2000-gateway-to-diesel-view/
 
I am a happy to get free advice but also understand the old adage: its only worth what you pay for it. Anyone who just runs with free advice and ends up frying something because they did not verify the operation kind of deserves what they get. I appreciate both of your positions, Tom has given some very extensive data and lengthy clear explanations concerning the networking topic in the past which really helped me begin to wrap my head around the system I'm looking to build. I get Henry's concern but you just can't control how people will ultimately use information that is posted. I hope no one that truly has good knowledge to share would not hold back because some idiot may miss-use it. But I digress. I just ordered a Smartcraft Multi Engine gateway from the guys at Sea Board Marine. It will plug into my J Box at the Helm and then plug into the STNG backbone to display on the gs165. I should still see my genset data on the DV that way. I hope I understand that correctly. $435 ain't nothin but its less expensive that going VV7
Thanks again for the guidance and knowledge guys
Carpe Diem

I recently did exactly what you intend to do and the engine data is now displayed on my ES127 and Axiom while leaving all of the smart craft data alone. It is nice to see the engine data on a larger screen that you can actually see!
I have a similar boat to yours and do not have gen data. Was this added aftermarket?
 
I recently did exactly what you intend to do and the engine data is now displayed on my ES127 and Axiom while leaving all of the smart craft data alone. It is nice to see the engine data on a larger screen that you can actually see!
I have a similar boat to yours and do not have gen data. Was this added aftermarket?
To be honest I don’t remember how much generator data I actually have access to on the DV display. I’ll be at the boat today and scroll thru the data pages and get back to you. I seem to remember that I have voltage and hertz data as to genset output but don’t remember other genset engine data.
CD
 
To be honest I don’t remember how much generator data I actually have access to on the DV display. I’ll be at the boat today and scroll thru the data pages and get back to you. I seem to remember that I have voltage and hertz data as to genset output but don’t remember other genset engine data.
CD
Generator data was an option. The data available is coolant temperature, oil pressure, Battery Voltage, AC Power frequency, and AC Power voltage.
The option specification was to add a Network Interface Module (NIM) to the Onan generator then a Smartcraft cable between the generator and the Port engine Smartcraft adapter / extension harness.
The easiest way to tell if your boat has that option is to look at the port engine wire harness and find the yellow capped Smartcraft termination resistor (looks like the picture below); if there is a cable adapted to the connector where that resistor is and runs back to the generator then you have the option.
Here is a bit more technically why the generator data is only available on Diesel View - The Smartcraft cabling and connectors have three data networks integrated which are simply three twisted pair of wires. One is called CAN 1 (or CAN H) which carries information external to the engines like fuel levels, rudder position, Gear Oil pressure, speed sensor and others; some are used and some not depending upon vessel. CAN 2 (or CAN P) is the engine's data from the engine's ECM; this data is in the SAE J1939 format. CAN 3 (or CAN V) is only used for the generator's data from the NIM. The Mercury evolution from Diesel View to Vessel View stopped supporting CAN 3 and Vessel View does not recognize it.
To re-acquire the data on a Vessel View the NIM data needs to be converted to NMEA 2000 and added to a NMEA 2000 network connected to the Vessel View display; but, that is another discussion.
images
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the in depth explanation. As stated before lots of knowledge here.

In addition to my comments to Carpe Diem, this summer when I did the upgrade on my boat I purchased a gateway locally as I live in Florida and thought it would be faster than shipping cross country. Wrong! I purchased one that needed the re-flashing.
I called Mercury service to get this taken care of and they did not know what I was talking about and wanted me to do all kinds of test before they would even talk to me. I sent it back for a refund and called Cory to purchase one from Seaboard which was on the truck to Florida that day and working correctly on my boat in about 5 days.
 
Thanks for the in depth explanation. As stated before lots of knowledge here.

In addition to my comments to Carpe Diem, this summer when I did the upgrade on my boat I purchased a gateway locally as I live in Florida and thought it would be faster than shipping cross country. Wrong! I purchased one that needed the re-flashing.
I called Mercury service to get this taken care of and they did not know what I was talking about and wanted me to do all kinds of test before they would even talk to me. I sent it back for a refund and called Cory to purchase one from Seaboard which was on the truck to Florida that day and working correctly on my boat in about 5 days.
Corey know his stuff, he sold me a Medusa harness to fix a glitch I had after I’d did my 1000 hr cooling system Mx. I was sure it couldn’t be the harness but I was wrong! Glad we have them as a resource.
CD
 
Corey know his stuff, he sold me a Medusa harness to fix a glitch I had after I’d did my 1000 hr cooling system Mx. I was sure it couldn’t be the harness but I was wrong! Glad we have them as a resource.
CD
I remember that - did your students ever get to the root cause?
 
Actually no, We were going to use it as a trouble shooting lab when we got to that unit which incidentally we would be in the middle of now. This Covid 19 deal has thrown a monkey wrench in plans now though as we have had to go to a distance learning protocol to keep the students on track to earning their certificates. When we come back in May (fingers crossed) we will resume the level three instruction and see if we can get to the bottom of it.
Stay well
CD
 
Update on Network install. I bought a NEMA 2000 Gateway for the Smartcraft EDM and integrated it via my STNG backbone to my gs165. I fired it up and the MFD displayed all of my engine data as expected except for one glitch. My Starboard fuel tank quantity is not displaying data. The Gateway is plugged into the Starboard junction box at the helm as directed. Has anyone had this problem? A friend installed the same gateway and has the same display with the same issue. His attempts to correct it has resulted in Mercruiser and Raymarine pointing fingers at each other.
 
I'm so done with the Covid 19 subject. I'm going to get back to my Network Crisis instead.
After networking the Mercruiser NEMA Gateway to the STNG backbone I found that for some reason the Fuel quantity data is not displaying for the STRBD tank. Port tank is reading % of full accurately. I queried the Raymarine forum and found out that I need to analyze the data with an Actisense NGT-1 gateway to figure out if the PGN 127505 Instance IDs and Fuel type are transmitting properly. DOes anyone here have experience using this device? I'm not looking forward to spending several hundered bucks on hardware and soft ware to figure out that all I needed to do was go to some setting screen on the mfd that would do the same thing. Anybody?
Also, according to Raymarine the tank quantity sensors need to NEMA 2000 capable and programmed appropriately. Im assuming that since the Port tank is working, the senders are compliant but possibly the STRBD tank is just not configured properly?
I'm hoping TTMOTT might be able to chime in here.
Thanks
Rusty
 
Last edited:
I called a local Raymarine Dealer to see if they would come out and analyze my NEMA Data to correct the fuel tank reading and configure any other data that should be available but not displaying on the MFD. Their minimum charge would be $650 and I'm only 1/2 drive from their shop. I decided that Ill buy the NEMA Analyzer and learn this stuff myself. Its only one parameter that is out of wack for one tank reading of which the information I already have on my analog gauges and the smartcrap screen. I am just OCD about not having things work that are installed on the boat! I figure since we have forgone at least two months now of cruising that we would have normally done, the boat bucks saved in fuel will be put to good use for future cruises.
Cheers
CD
 
Have you exhausted all of the configuration possibilities in the mfd? I had to play around with the rm E120w displays to get everything to display properly.

Have you tried creating a new gauge page on the mfd for fuel? That way you would configure tanks & gauges from scratch. Can you display total fuel as a volume? If so does it show volume for one tank, or both?
 
It seems like I’ve tried everything available on the mfd.
It’s just odd that one tank reads fine and the other doesn't read anything. According to the council I received on the Raymarine site, the instance codes should be set at 0 and 1 but they are set at 2 and 3. While writing this it just occurred to me that maybe I can trick the system into reading the tank if I tell it that there are three fuel tanks.
I’ll try that and update
Happy Easter
 
Problem solved! Sort of anyway.
I set my display fuel details to show 4 fuel tanks and now I am showing fuel in #3 tank which I will just call Starboard.
I still have a NEMA 2000 usb interface coming so I’ll be able to program it properly. For some reason I’m not getting total fuel on the display but probably just a matter of more tinkering.
Cheers
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,950
Messages
1,422,872
Members
60,932
Latest member
juliediane
Back
Top