Fan blower won't turn off

[guus]

Since i cant find a dedicated four winns forum on the net, i thought ill try here.

I'm looking at a four winns vista 378 form 2009,
it looks very decent but i have some concerns, when the guy representing the seller told me that the fan blower in the bilge turns on automatically if you turn on the power and from there it just never stops running.
On the switch board the fan button is lighting up red. but flicking it either way doesnt turn it off either.

It seems harmless if it is running all the time but the whirring sound is kinda annoying though.

So my question:
1) could this insignificant problem actually be a precursor to a much bigger problem with for example the electrical system/wiring or something?
So in other words, should i be concerned or is this usually a common problem that just needs a simple fix?


2, another thing i noticed was that the motor hatch has two water drains, in my old boat those hoses where directed to holes in the side of the boat so any excess water is redirected straight out.
In this case however, the hoses are attached to nothing. in other words, the excess water just ends up in the bilge, which seems strange to me.
The guy told me it's normal because if the bilge fills up with water the pumps are activated.
this might seem logical but lets say you are at sea and big waves crash in and you loose power/batteries then what happens? no batteries, no bilge pump.
Maybe perfectly normal but to me it seems a bit scary.

thanks very much for taking the time to help out!

 

[Nater Potater]

1) Not brand specific, but blower fans typically aren't built to be on full time, unless someone's replaced them with continuous-duty units (not likely). As for what it might lead to in the electrical system, no help here.
2) Never seen hatch drains just dumping into the bilge. Others here may chime in otherwise. 'Sounds like usual used-car-saleman drivel to me.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

My guess is the switch on the panel failed so someone just jumped the switch so they would have an operational blower.
If you like the boat, I would not let this be a deal killer but just make sure you get a mechanical surveyor that is thorough and can address these issues.
CD

 

[Chris-380]

Not near the participation in the four winns site, but def good group

https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/

Since i cant find a dedicated four winns forum on the net, i thought ill try here.

I'm looking at a four winns vista 378 form 2009,
it looks very decent but i have some concerns, when the guy representing the seller told me that the fan blower in the bilge turns on automatically if you turn on the power and from there it just never stops running.
On the switch board the fan button is lighting up red. but flicking it either way doesnt turn it off either.

It seems harmless if it is running all the time but the whirring sound is kinda annoying though.

So my question:
1) could this insignificant problem actually be a precursor to a much bigger problem with for example the electrical system/wiring or something?
So in other words, should i be concerned or is this usually a common problem that just needs a simple fix?


2, another thing i noticed was that the motor hatch has two water drains, in my old boat those hoses where directed to holes in the side of the boat so any excess water is redirected straight out.
In this case however, the hoses are attached to nothing. in other words, the excess water just ends up in the bilge, which seems strange to me.
The guy told me it's normal because if the bilge fills up with water the pumps are activated.
this might seem logical but lets say you are at sea and big waves crash in and you loose power/batteries then what happens? no batteries, no bilge pump.
Maybe perfectly normal but to me it seems a bit scary.

thanks very much for taking the time to help out!

 

[dwna1a]

This might just be me but,
Sounds as if the switch is wired wrong. I should, repeat should be a easy fit.
The hatch drains should all be connected to drain overboard. Mine are PVC pipe. Again another easy fix.

This leads me to this statement. Seems to me there have been some minor problems that were kinda band aided as a repair. Makes me wonder about bigger issues or maintenance that has been delayed or bypassed just to save a dime. To me it would be a red flag. Survey everything!

 

[ttmott]

Does your boat have a fire protection system?
If so then the helm blower switch probably activates a blower controller which operates the fans.
On Sea Ray boats that fan module is typically installed inside of the main circuit breaker panel.
Sometimes the modules will fail on and you have to turn the circuit breaker off to get the fans to turn off. Here is a picture of the one on my boat -

 

[guus]

thx for the replies!
they told me they got the switch sorted now. also, the hoses are supposed to be hanging loose in the bilge, i just saw a youtube video of another similar boat and those hoses are also just dangling there.

one more thing, the guy told me, as if it were a good thing, the boat has been in storage for the past three years.
Isnt that really bad for diesel engines (volvo D4-300)? i mean, doesnt that dry out the gaskets and rubber seals?

 

[rlynch03]

Does your boat have a fire protection system?
If so then the helm blower switch probably activates a blower controller which operates the fans.
On Sea Ray boats that fan module is typically installed inside of the main circuit breaker panel.
Sometimes the modules will fail on and you have to turn the circuit breaker off to get the fans to turn off. Here is a picture of the one on my boat -
View attachment 131676

My port blower was cycling every hour or so with the switch turned ON and the starboard blower was running fine.

Now the port blower will not turn on at all. Checked voltage at the blower (zero) and it seems to be the Dual Blower Controller is bad but not certain.

Any tests to prove it’s the controller versus the Seafire device below it? I do have 12v coming from the breaker.

 

[ttmott]

My port blower was cycling every hour or so with the switch turned ON and the starboard blower was running fine.

Now the port blower will not turn on at all. Checked voltage at the blower (zero) and it seems to be the Dual Blower Controller is bad but not certain.

Any tests to prove it’s the controller versus the Seafire device below it? I do have 12v coming from the breaker.

Got power from both (the port and starboard) circuit breakers?
The lamp on the switch will tell a story also; if it is flashing then there is a fault in the controller or loss of power in one of the circuit breakers..
If the SeaFire module has terminated the blower operation neither will operate. I need to check the schematics but I believe the SeaFire module's relay interrupts the helm and solon switch legs.

 

[rlynch03]

Got power from both (the port and starboard) circuit breakers?
The lamp on the switch will tell a story also; if it is flashing then there is a fault in the controller or loss of power in one of the circuit breakers..
If the SeaFire module has terminated the blower operation neither will operate. I need to check the schematics but I believe the SeaFire module's relay interrupts the helm and solon switch legs.

I do have 12v coming from both breakers.

The Starboard blower runs fine and the indicator light is solid.

So it sounds like I should order a new Dual Blower Relay. Flounder Pounder has them but the OEM, Intellitec doesn’t sell them any longer. Will reach out to them Monday to confirm.

 

[ttmott]

I do have 12v coming from both breakers.

The Starboard blower runs fine and the indicator light is solid.

So it sounds like I should order a new Dual Blower Relay. Flounder Pounder has them but the OEM, Intellitec doesn’t sell them any longer. Will reach out to them Monday to confirm.

After review of the configuration - The SeaFire module interrupts the power between the blower module and each the blowers; two relays are used in the SeaFire.
So, it could also be a failed relay in the SeaFire module.

First, I'd swap the two blower "Load" wires on the SeaFire module. If the problem moves to the other blower then you have validated all of the wiring and connectors between SeaFire module and the blowers to be good.

Then if the wiring to the blowers is good, return the "Load" wires to the original configuration and swap the two "Switch" wires on the SeaFire module. If the problem remains and does not move to the other blower, then the relay in the SeaFire module is defective. If the problem moves to the other blower, then the issue is isolated to the blower controller. If both blowers fail to run then there is an issue with both the blower module and SeaFire relay.

Easy ten minute test.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Had an incident where the helm blower switch got wet, causing the same result

The LED indicator on the rocker switch on the main electrical panel stays on all the time. Don't know if that is correct ?

BEST !

RWS

 

[rlynch03]

After review of the configuration - The SeaFire module interrupts the power between the blower module and each the blowers; two relays are used in the SeaFire.
So, it could also be a failed relay in the SeaFire module.

First, I'd swap the two blower "Load" wires on the SeaFire module. If the problem moves to the other blower then you have validated all of the wiring and connectors between SeaFire module and the blowers to be good.

Then if the wiring to the blowers is good, return the "Load" wires to the original configuration and swap the two "Switch" wires on the SeaFire module. If the problem remains and does not move to the other blower, then the relay in the SeaFire module is defective. If the problem moves to the other blower, then the issue is isolated to the blower controller. If both blowers fail to run then there is an issue with both the blower module and SeaFire relay.

Easy ten minute test.
View attachment 154438

That’s a better test than what I did… I moved the two starboard wires from the SeaFire system terminals (switch&load) to the port terminals (switch&load). I am pretty sure when I did that the switch indicator light started blinking.

Does that tell a story? Or the test you suggested was a bit different.

Can you also share schematic or is it in our manuals?

Thank you Tom!

 

[ttmott]

That’s a better test than what I did… I moved the two starboard wires from the SeaFire system terminals (switch&load) to the port terminals (switch&load). I am pretty sure when I did that the switch indicator light started blinking.

Does that tell a story? Or the test you suggested was a bit different.

Can you also share schematic or is it in our manuals?

Thank you Tom!

The only way the switch lamps would blink is if there was a loss in supply power or a fault in the blower module was occuring. If you left one of the power supply wires disconnected then the lamps would flash.
My owner's manual has the boat's wiring but is devoid of the wiring in the circuit breaker panel down below.
I made up a sketch to fill in the blanks but can't find it. Probably in the files on the boat.

The helm bilge blower switch has three wires - Black (switch), White (switch), and Red (lamp) and these go to connector F16 (under the helm). From mating connector (M16) The Black terminates to Ground, Then the Red and White wires route to connector M2 (pins 4 and 5). The mating connector F2 then routes to the Main Circuit Breaker Panel.

The solon blower switch also has three wires - Black (switch), White (switch), and Red (lamp); these are routed to connector PLUG 28 behind the solon breaker panel. The black wire is grounded behind the circuit breaker panel. PLUG 28 connects to CAP 28 and the red and white wires route to connector M2 (pins 2 and 3).

In the engine room the Port blower power wire is routed to connector M2 pin 16 (yellow wire). The Starboard blower is also routed to connector M2 pin 18 (yellow wire).

From connector M2 that both the helm and solon switch wiring and the blower wiring interfaces there are no drawings. It is a really big hole in the owner's manual.

In a nutshell - The interfacing M2 connector is F2. Each of the yellow blower wires (Pins 16 and 18) route to the Blower LOAD terminals on the SeaFire module. The two White wires from the helm and solon switches (connector M2) are tied together and terminate on the Switch terminal of the Blower Controller. The two Red switch lamp wires are also tied together and terminate to the Light terminal on the Blower Controller.

The Port and Starboard blower circuit breakers are routed inside of the main circuit breaker panel to Line 1 and Line 2 of the Blower Controller. Then from Blower 1 and Blower 2 terminals on the Blower Controller to the SeaFire Switch terminals.

 

[rlynch03]

Replaced the Dual Blower Controller and back in business. Both blowers operate again.

Thank you @ttmott for the research.

Attached. Is this the manual you have or were looking for?