Fusion Album Art and Garmin MFD's

[Skybolt]

... Essentially my boat has two IP based networks; the Garmin (managed by OneHelm) and a standard LAN with router, ... What we have found out is the two shall never meet through ethernet connection; the html5 and Garmin security prevents the two from being interconnected. We manipulated the IP addresses of the boat's LAN to the Garmin series and it crashed/locked up the Garmin system. I had the IT "experts" on the boat for several days to work through it but no joy. The ... picture is how it is today (Red lines) so the Fusion graphics and camera and info gets integrated into the Garmin MFD's. ...

Expand for pic reference.

Tom, sorry for cutting up the quote, but I didn't want to confuse the post with what was discussed in the other thread, nothing was reordered, just cut-out.

Are you saying connecting the Garmin Marine Network (GMN) to the fusion head unit directly (POE Adapter etc.) you are able to get album art to display on your MFD's? And connecting to the boat network it you didn't?

I have been trying to get this to work for the past two weeks. Spoke with Garmin Tech and they said it won't work without using the GXM53/54 antenna, but that would work for the head unit only as only audio would pass to that through an AUX input. I also spoke with the Fusion tech and they said you could not get the album art on the MFD at all using the SVX-300 Sirius tuner and only on the Fusion head unit/remotes would display art work.

I tried using a GMN cable through a poe injector (remove voltage) connected to the boat network and that didn't work either (ip issue?). I guess I could try a separate switch just for the fusion network but then the fusion app wouldn't work except by bluetooth ...

If anyone has this working please post your connections. Thanks!

 

[alnav]

Expand for pic reference.

Tom, sorry for cutting up the quote, but I didn't want to confuse the post with what was discussed in the other thread, nothing was reordered, just cut-out.

Are you saying connecting the Garmin Marine Network (GMN) to the fusion head unit directly (POE Adapter etc.) you are able to get album art to display in the you MFD's? And connecting to the boat network it you didn't?

I have been trying to get this to work for the past two weeks. Spoke with Garmin Tech and they said it won't work with out using the GXM54 antenna, but that would not work for the head unit as only audio would pass to that through an AUX input. I also spoke with the Fusion tech and they said you could not get the album art on the MFD at all using the SVX-300 Sirius tuner and only on the Fusion head unit/remotes would display art work.

I tried using a GMN cable through a poe injector (remove voltage) connected to the boat network and that didn't work either (ip issue?). I guess I could try a separate switch just for the fusion network but then the fusion app wouldn't work except by bluetooth ...

If anyone has this working please post you connections. Thanks!

It's working for me. I have a single ethernet cable connected directly between the Fusion (with SVX-300) and the Garmin network and get album art. I don't think the POE adapter is required between Fusion and Garmin, where did you see that? I also have a GMX 53 but I don't think that's album art capable. There's a thread with some pictures from last summer.
EDIT: Found it. http://clubsearay.com/index.php?thr...s-xm-and-nmea-2000.100335/page-2#post-1160189 Post 34

 

[ttmott]

I purchased the Garmin POE Isolator as the boat's security camera system uses POE and Garmin is very specific that their equipment will be damaged with any external POE. However, with the Lorex security camera system including the Lorex Network Video Recorder all integrated with my boats LAN router and connected with the marina's WAN any connection to the Garmin ethernet network was incompatible. In trying to change the LAN system's IP addresses to one Garmin would recognize and a long list of other IP wizardry it locked up the Garmin equipment. I simply wanted to control the cameras through the Garmin MFD. So, that was a bust. Now I feed the cameras via HDMI to the Garmin MFD; I can see the camera image but can't control the cameras.
Take a gander through this thread http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/fusion-audio-garmin-sirius-xm-and-nmea-2000.100335/
My Fusion head is connected to both the NMEA 2000 network as well now to the Garmin network through that POE isolator only because I didn't know if the Fusion had POE. Between that and updating the software the album art now displays as well as full capability to select stations on the Garmin MFD's. The first pic is how it is today and second was the integration attempt that didn't pan out.

 

[ttmott]

The Fusion head is connected to the SiriusXM tuner and antenna. I do not have the GXM53. I have full control of Sirius XM through the Fusion head, Fusion remotes, Fusion App on my cell phone, and the Garmin MFD's.

 

[ttmott]

Just to be clear -
The Garmin GXM53 connects Sirius XM and Sirius Weather directly to a "Power and Audio Module" and the Garmin Marine Network (Ethernet). The Garmin MFD then can control the Sirius XM and Weather. The Power and Audio Module has left and right RCA audio out jacks that can then feed the audio to the Fusion Aux In (or any other audio receiver). The Fusion must then be switched to Aux to listen to the Sirius XM. In this configuration the Fusion system has no control whatsoever of the Sirius XM and the Garmin MFD must be used to tune an XM station. If you want Sirius Weather get the GSM53. If you want Sirius XM and be able to control the XM through the Fusion equipment as well as the MFD get the $30 Sirius XM antenna and receiver and connect it to the Fusion head.

 

[Skybolt]

Just to be clear -
The Garmin GXM53 connects Sirius XM and Sirius Weather directly to a "Power and Audio Module" and the Garmin Marine Network (Ethernet). The Garmin MFD then can control the Sirius XM and Weather. The Power and Audio Module has left and right RCA audio out jacks that can then feed the audio to the Fusion Aux In (or any other audio receiver). The Fusion must then be switched to Aux to listen to the Sirius XM. In this configuration the Fusion system has no control whatsoever of the Sirius XM and the Garmin MFD must be used to tune an XM station. If you want Sirius Weather get the GSM53. If you want Sirius XM and be able to control the XM through the Fusion equipment as well as the MFD get the $30 Sirius XM antenna and receiver and connect it to the Fusion head.

Exactly, This I fully understand and have all this working great and for some time now, NRX300 and ERX400 (ERX has album art) remotes all work great, MFD's control the Fusion and sirius etc., just no album art. I recently added the newer Garmin MFD's (1243) and thought I would get the Album Art in the OneHelm media app (fusionLink). I also have a 7608 for just this use and was told by Garmin that I could not get the Album Art to show without the GXM53/54. But did read that thread you and Al have referenced, but could not find again and why I posted this. I am going to try to directly interface the Fusion RA770 head to the MFD and see if that is my issue and by pass my boats network, might be an IP issue. Thanks.

 

[ttmott]

The ERX400 is a network (ethernet) device and connects to the Fusion head via the network right? That means that single network port on the Fusion head is used.
If you have implemented the Fusion Partybus and have a router then more ports become available however I don't know if then the network is compatible with the Garmin MFD from a network perspective; one way to find out but make sure there is no POE. By saying the ERX400 has album art this then confirms the album art is transmitted through the network and not NMEA2000 and consequently how and why the album art appears on the Garmin MFDs when connected to the Fusion network.

 

[alnav]

Exactly, This I fully understand and have all this working great and for some time now, NRX300 and ERX400 (ERX has album art) remotes all work great, MFD's control the Fusion and sirius etc., just no album art. I recently added the newer Garmin MFD's (1243) and thought I would get the Album Art in the OneHelm media app (fusionLink). I also have a 7608 for just this use and was told by Garmin that I could not get the Album Art to show without the GXM53/54. But did read that thread you and Al have referenced, but could not find again and why I posted this. I am going to try to directly interface the Fusion RA770 head to the MFD and see if that is my issue and by pass my boats network, might be an IP issue. Thanks.

I think you are going to have to bypass your boat network to get the ethernet connection to work; the Fusion needs to join the Garmin Network and get its IP address from the Garmin DHCP server. So, you probably have to choose between album art and a wifi connection to the Fusion. I do wonder if, since a phone or other device connecting over Garmin wifi effectively joins the network if the Fusion app can use that path and need to check that out.
Garmin doesn't publish its network specs. But, I do know the Garmin Network uses IP addresses in the range beginning at 172.16.6.0, net mask 255.255.0.0. I did have some luck a few years ago setting up a router to serve in that range and was able to use the Active Captain predecessor app without the Garmin wifi dongle while still on the internet. That was with 8012 MFDs. The latest MFDs seem to have better network protection, but they have wifi built in so less of an imperative for me to play with it. I did spend some time last summer and briefly got at least a couple of Garmin devices to show up on my boat network but I didn't take it any further. I didn't try to do anything with the Fusion at that time. Based on Tom's experience I'm pretty sure Garmin has made its network pretty secure.

 

[Skybolt]

I think you are going to have to bypass your boat network to get the ethernet connection to work; the Fusion needs to join the Garmin Network and get its IP address from the Garmin DHCP server. So, you probably have to choose between album art and a wifi connection to the Fusion. I do wonder if, since a phone or other device connecting over Garmin wifi effectively joins the network if the Fusion app can use that path and need to check that out.
Garmin doesn't publish its network specs. But, I do know that her the Garmin Network uses IP addresses in the range beginning at 172.16.6.0, net mask 255.255.0.0. I did have some luck a few years ago setting up a router to serve in that range and was able to use the Active Captain predecessor app without the Garmin wifi dongle while still on the internet. That was with 8012 MFDs. The latest MFDs seem to have better network protection, but they have wifi built in so less of an imperative for me to play with it. I did spend some time last summer and briefly got at least a couple of Garmin devices to show up on my boat network but I didn't take it any further. I didn't try to do anything with the Fusion at that time. Based on Tom's experience I'm pretty sure Garmin has made its network pretty secure.

Well Al you beat me to it. You and Tom are 100% right. I put the radio on the GMN via a switch and it all worked. My ERX400's which are wired ethernet needed to be tied in as well. I did use a POE injector without any power to block the GMN POE. I didn't even switch the RA770 to GMN mode either. I was also able to add the RA770 to the boat's wifi and use the Fusion app through wifi at the same time. I guess they designed it to be operated this way.

Thanks for the quick reply's guys. For what ever reason my brain couldn't make the connection of the GMN having a DHCP server in it, which it apparently does, in the MFD maybe?

 

[alnav]

Well Al you beat me to it. You and Tom are 100% right. I put the radio on the GMN via a switch and it all worked. My ERX400's which are wired ethernet needed to be tied in as well. I did use a POE injector without any power to block the GMN POE. I didn't even switch the RA770 to GMN mode either. I was also able to add the RA770 to the boat's wifi and use the Fusion app through wifi at the same time. I guess they designed it to be operated this way.

Thanks for the quick reply's guys. For what ever reason my brain couldn't make the connection of the GMN having a DHCP server in it, which it apparently does, in the MFD maybe?

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Orlando, congrats. I assumed the Fusion could only be on one network at a time, good to know it can be on separate ethernet and wifi connections at the same time. Yes, I think any MFD can act as a DHCP server, somehow one is designated the lead unit.

 

[Skybolt]

The ERX400 is a network (ethernet) device and connects to the Fusion head via the network right? That means that single network port on the Fusion head is used.
If you have implemented the Fusion Partybus and have a router then more ports become available however I don't know if then the network is compatible with the Garmin MFD from a network perspective; one way to find out but make sure there is no POE. By saying the ERX400 has album art this then confirms the album art is transmitted through the network and not NMEA2000 and consequently how and why the album art appears on the Garmin MFDs when connected to the Fusion network.

Tom - Yes the ERX400 is ethernet only, and do not support N2K, and the album art does work on the ERX via any network that the RA770 is on. I had to add a switch to my router so the ERX's could be connected to the RA770 on the boat's network. So yes the album art is transmitted via ethernet and not in the NMEA 2000 meta data as Garmin support has stated twice to me.

Tonight I configured the RA770 to use the switch with the ERX's and connected that to the GMN GSM10 and the Artwork appeared on the next song change. I was also able to connect the RA770 to the boats WiFi at the same time as being connected to the GMN and control it via the Fusion app. I have not yet tried out the party bus for anything.

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, congrats. I assumed the Fusion could only be on one network at a time, good to know it can be on separate ethernet and wifi connections at the same time. Yes, I think any MFD can act as a DHCP server, somehow one is designated the lead unit.

Fusion must have designed there units to work with both WiFi and Ethernet at the same time just for the purpose of working with Garmin MFD's. There are not too many devices that support two IP stacks like this, that's usually reserved for server's.

EDIT: With regard to the POE adapter, it's in the MFD install manual and Garmin recommend's using their POE blocker when connecting other none Garmin devices to the GMN.

 

[ttmott]

Tom - Yes the ERX400 is ethernet only, and do not support N2K, and the album art does work on the ERX via any network that the RA770 is on. I had to add a switch to my router so the ERX's could be connected to the RA770 on the boat's network. So yes the album art is transmitted via ethernet and not in the NMEA 2000 meta data as Garmin support has stated twice to me.

Tonight I configured the RA770 to use the switch with the ERX's and connected that to the GMN GSM10 and the Artwork appeared on the next song change. I was also able to connect the RA770 to the boats WiFi at the same time as being connected to the GMN and control it via the Fusion app. I have not yet tried out the party bus for anything.

So you have both the RA770 and ERX400 and Garmin network all connected using a separate IP network switch and all playing good together?
It seems then that both of the Fusion network devices will accept the DHCP address' from the Garmin network.

 

[Skybolt]

So you have both the RA770 and ERX400 and Garmin network all connected using a separate IP network switch and all playing good together?
It seems then that both of the Fusion network devices will accept the DHCP address' from the Garmin network.

No, that was my original issue and to your point, the boat network and the GMN don't mix. And you are correct the two DHCP servers on the same network don't play well or at all.

I had to re-wire my network to get things to work tonight. I used my switch for the fusion/GMN only connections. The switch only has the RA770, the two ERX400's and a GMN cable connection to it. The RA770 also has the WiFi client enabled and connected to the boat's WiFi. So the RA770 is connected to both the GMN and the boat's wifi, but those two networks are not bridged in any way.

EDIT: Yes, the Fusion devices will accept the GMN ip address's without an issue. Switching the network cables and rebooting the fusion devices let everything just work.

 

[alnav]

No, that was my original issue and to your point, the boat network and the GMN don't mix. And you are correct the two DHCP servers on the same network don't play well or at all.

I had to re-wire my network to get things to work tonight. I used my switch for the fusion/GMN only connections. The switch only has the RA770, the two ERX400's and a GMN cable connection to it. The RA770 also has the WiFi client enabled and connected to the boat's WiFi. So the RA770 is connected to both the GMN and the boat's wifi, but those two networks are not bridged in any way.

EDIT: Yes, the Fusion devices will accept the GMN ip address's without an issue. Switching the network cables and rebooting the fusion devices let everything just work.

Good news that you've proven a non-Garmin switch works. I am about to install a couple of IP cameras and am running short on Garmin Network connections. I don't want to buy another GMS 10 if I can help it and am planning to try an off-the-shelf switch as a first pass.

 

[Skybolt]

Good news that you've proven a non-Garmin switch works. I am about to install a couple of IP cameras and am running short on Garmin Network connections. I don't want to buy another GMS 10 if I can help it and am planning to try an off-the-shelf switch as a first pass.

Ha! I didn't even give that a second thought, I just assumed that it would work fine, glad it did. I am using an old 12v netgear 10/100 switch. You can get them off of ebay fairly cheap. Just keep in mind the GSM10 is a POE switch and needs to be blocked going to anything else.

 

[ttmott]

Ha! I didn't even give that a second thought, I just assumed that it would work fine, glad it did. I am using an old 12v netgear 10/100 switch. You can get them off of ebay fairly cheap. Just keep in mind the GSM10 is a POE switch and needs to be blocked going to anything else.

POE switch? Lost me on that one.... I didn't think there is any POE on the Garmin network. All of the Garmin peripherals are powered separately. The Garmin IP cameras have unique cables so a power source can be provided.
Edit - Is the Garmin equipment (MFD's) using some form of POE to switch on and off the peripherals? Kinda like that signal wire on stereo's to switch on the amplifiers....

 

[Skybolt]

POE switch? Lost me on that one.... I didn't think there is any POE on the Garmin network. All of the Garmin peripherals are powered separately. The Garmin IP cameras have unique cables so a power source can be provided.
Edit - Is the Garmin equipment (MFD's) using some form of POE to switch on and off the peripherals? Kinda like that signal wire on stereo's to switch on the amplifiers....

Tom - the GMN cables are crossover cables that carry POE. Now what I don't know and may have miss spoke, is either the GSM10 or the MFD's are powering the GMN. I just assumed from things I have read that the GSM10 is a POE switch. But giving this some thought, it would make sense if the MFD's are the power source and the GMS10 is just a pass through. But yes the POE being powered on is what turns on the rest of the network. And to your point, just like the stereo remote power on signals.

I'll be at the boat later today and will measure the power conditions from the GMS10, by itself and with an MFD turned on.

 

[alnav]

POE switch? Lost me on that one.... I didn't think there is any POE on the Garmin network. All of the Garmin peripherals are powered separately. The Garmin IP cameras have unique cables so a power source can be provided.
Edit - Is the Garmin equipment (MFD's) using some form of POE to switch on and off the peripherals? Kinda like that signal wire on stereo's to switch on the amplifiers....

Tom - the GMN cables are crossover cables that carry POE. Now what I don't know and may have miss spoke, is either the GSM10 or the MFD's are powering the GMN. I just assumed from things I have read that the GSM10 is a POE switch. But giving this some thought, it would make sense if the MFD's are the power source and the GMS10 is just a pass through. My GMR24 has only one cable, a GMN cable and get's it's power from or through the GSM10 and turns on when the network is powered. But yes the POE being powered on is what turns on the rest of the network. And to your point, just like the stereo remote power on signals.

I'll be at the boat later today and will measure the power conditions from the GMS10, by itself and with an MFD turned on.

Orlando, are you sure your radar doesn't have a separate power connection? My Fantom 24 does, along with every other device I've installed. I believe Garmin utilizes pins that are normally-unused pins on a standard ethernet for power control of attached devices. So, I think it's transmitting a small amount of power but not of the magnitude of true POE. I think this explains why they are insistent about non-Garmin POE devices having POE protection.
Edit: Found this explanation of the differences between Garmin Network and standard ethernet cables: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=MNUtEt8k5EA2s8dR9eqIQ9

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, are you sure your radar doesn't have a separate power connection? My Fantom 24 does, along with every other device I've installed. I believe Garmin utilizes pins that are normally-unused pins on a standard ethernet for power control of attached devices. So, I think it's transmitting a small amount of power but not of the magnitude of true POE. I think this explains why they are insistent about non-Garmin POE devices having POE protection.
Edit: Found this explanation of the differences between Garmin Network and standard ethernet cables: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=MNUtEt8k5EA2s8dR9eqIQ9

Nope, you are correct Al, the GMR24 does have a separate power connection. I haven't looked at that for years and just looked that up. The original owner made a single cable out of the two by putting some sort of sheathing around the cable, sorry for confusing that.

That doesn't change the POE aspect. I am just not sure of the pinout being used for the POE. It should be 4,5 and 7,8 that supply the power. I will confirm the voltage, I am assuming 12v, and pinout later and post back.

EDIT: Did not follow your link until after I posted this. So it seems that is the case on the power as well. So it is just a cross over cable with POE. Garmin's cables are just a little better grade of cable and waterproof.

This is an interesting comment from that article: "Even though you can use a Standard Ethernet cable on the GPSMAP 4000 series and newer we only recommend using Garmin Marine Network cables."