Great News! CDC Says Covid On Verge Of Non-epdimic Status!

[Blueone]

I will bite. CoronaVirus, YTD is the 4th most deadly ailment in the US. Heart attack, stroke, accidents, cancer, diabetes, alzheimers, chronic respiratory disease and Covid. When the year is done, it's very likely the Covid will be the #1 reason, as it will surpass all the others.

So, what's different? Of the top 8 things that kill us, Covid is the only one that's contagious.

If that's not enough for you to look at Covid differently, consider all of the other damage a virus does to the body, and realize we don't have any idea what the long term effect of Covid will be.

Here are examples of other viruses that we have years of experience with:

Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.

The list of symptoms is extraordinary.

People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him. Not to mention a $1.1 million medical bill.

Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.

What we are now learning is that even if asymptomatic, there is the potential for long term heart damage, lung damage and even brain damage - none of which have a known long term impact.

This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet all of the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

That's what's different.

Okay we didnt need that wake up call ....especially about Herpes

 

[alnav]

Yes your last statement (bolded by me) is the key issue. Something is different, but not in the deadliness of Covid-19 versus past flu outbreaks. We have yet to reach the fatalities (adjusted for population growth) of the Hong Kong flu of '68-'69. Though we're getting close. The flu outbreak of the late 50's was worse thank Hong Kong flu. I think it's unlikely we'll equal the fatalities from that outbreak (again adjusted for population growth).

What is different is the global mentality. It seems much more 'feelings-based' and very little 'evidence-based' or 'science-based'. This does not bode well.

In the case of the 57-58 Asian Flu. the U.S. had a vaccine ready before the virus even got here. For the 68-70 Hong Kong Flu, a vaccine was ready four months after it arrived. And yet, both killed 100K or less in the U.S. and we are way on our way, as you said, to surpass Hong Kong in the near term. I think we only need to hit 200k to pass the Asian Flu. The attack rate (% of population who got it) has been documented at 40% for the Hong Kong Flu, much higher than so far experienced with Covid.

I don't know what countries you have visited but I have been to lots that could give a rat's ass about the general welfare of individuals but care more about the overall wealth, yet they have adopted control strategies pretty much across the board. If you observe the actions of other nations, particularly in Europe and the smaller Asian countries, I very much see evidence-based responses.

 

[Third Edition]

That's where we disagree. Worse "pandemics" have occurred in my lifetime. None had the shutdowns we've had with Covid-19. We've come near to flatlining the global economy for, IMO, no valid reason. Just fear. What seems to have started it was the now discredited analysis by the Imperial College's Neil Ferguson saying there'd be 2million dead in the US and corresponding #s elsewhere.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

I'm curious which pandemic you lived through that was worse than this? We are approaching 200,000 dead in the US, and 700,000 globally. And, millions of infections, which may have life long consequences for those infected, and possibly the human population as a whole. What has been worse than that in the last century?

 

[El Capitan]

Lots of drama about a virus as if it’s the first and only. It happens. Deal w it. It’s an infectious disease. So what? The end results are what matters.

Being contagious is no different from people killing themselves w their super-size Big Mac fries and big gulp coke. Or smoking. They all kill. COVID kills a fraction compared.

Then notice you don’t touch the abortion killings. Is a contagion more deadly than a political policy that funds indiscriminate killing of unborn AND newborns? That is preventable but hey, we gotta have women’s health. Pfff. Where’s BLM? On per capita abortions effect disproportionate amount of black women.
https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/25/abortion-the-overlooked-tragedy-for-black-americans/


No difference. Death is death. Regardless of the cause. What makes COVID different is the politics and how it’s being used to shape monetary policy and the dilution of Bill of Rights. That’s the only difference here.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Being contagious is no different from a Big Mac? Are you crazy? Show me the world where your Big Mac can kill me?

 

[OllieC]

No difference. Death is death. Regardless of the cause. What makes COVID different is the politics and how it’s being used to shape monetary policy and the dilution of Bill of Rights. That’s the only difference here.

So what you’re saying is, death is a preexisting condition. I hope Obamacare covers that.

 

[Third Edition]

I'm curious which pandemic you lived through that was worse than this? We are approaching 200,000 dead in the US, and 700,000 globally. And, millions of infections, which may have life long consequences for those infected, and possibly the human population as a whole. What has been worse than that in the last century?

Regarding earlier "pandemics", from #78 earlier in this thread: "Yes your last statement (bolded by me) is the key issue. Something is different, but not in the deadliness of Covid-19 versus past flu outbreaks. We have yet to reach the fatalities (adjusted for population growth) of the Hong Kong flu of '68-'69. Though we're getting close. The flu outbreak of the late 50's was worse thank Hong Kong flu. I think it's unlikely we'll equal the fatalities from that outbreak (again adjusted for population growth)."

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Regarding earlier "pandemics", from #78 earlier in this thread: "Yes your last statement (bolded by me) is the key issue. Something is different, but not in the deadliness of Covid-19 versus past flu outbreaks. We have yet to reach the fatalities (adjusted for population growth) of the Hong Kong flu of '68-'69. Though we're getting close. The flu outbreak of the late 50's was worse thank Hong Kong flu. I think it's unlikely we'll equal the fatalities from that outbreak (again adjusted for population growth)."

So you realize that death isn't the only impact with Covid, right? That's only the tip of the problem. And, you also know that viruses tend to spread better in cooler weather than warm, right?

The flu outbreak of 1957 had 116,000 deaths in the US, and around 1M globally. We will absolutely surpass those numbers this year. Population in the US is not quite double what it was in '57, so you mean it's equivalent to 300,000 deaths in today's population. It's very likely we will reach that number, too, before the end of the year. We are already at 160k, and there is no sign of things slowing down. As the weather turns cooler, and people spend more time indoors, this is going to take off like a wildfire.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...of-unknown-long-term-effects-from-coronavirus

My bold highlights.
"When we say that the vast majority of people have a mild illness and recover, that is true. But what we cannot say, at the moment, is what are the potential long-term impacts of having had that infection," Mike Ryan, the executive director of WHO's Health Emergencies Program, said at a press conference.

"We hope that everybody who recovers from COVID-19 will make a full, permanent recovery, but there's enough people out there having difficulties with their exercise tolerance, having difficulties with their breathing, and potentially having long-term impacts on their cardiovascular system, that we want to try to avoid all COVID infections possible, not just those COVID infections that lead to death," he continued.

Ryan cited recent research out of Germany that raised concerns about the lasting impact the disease could have on the cardiovascular system in recovered patients. He emphasized that even people who have a mild case of the virus could be at risk of lasting health impacts. The research findings could challenge viewpoints that the virus is similar to a bad case of the flu and that young people generally overcome the disease unscathed.

The first study looked at the hearts of 100 people at the average age of 49 who had recovered from COVID-19 and compared them to similar images in people who were not infected with the virus. They found that 78 patients had structural changes to their hearts an average of over two months after testing positive for the disease, and 60 had signs of inflammation.

When a body reacts to a virus or other health problem, it generates an inflammatory response. If that response lasts a long time, it can do long-term damage that leads to heart disease and accelerate other heart conditions that would develop later in life, Ryan said.

Study author Valentina Puntmann told STAT that the high number of patients with ongoing heart abnormalities means "that the heart is involved in a majority of patients, even if Covid-19 illness does not scream out with the classical heart symptoms, such as anginal chest pain."

The second study looked at the cadavers of 39 people who had died from COVID-19 and found the virus in the hearts of 24 patients. Both studies were published Monday in the peer-reviewed journal JAMA Cardiology.

Ryan urged people to avoid taking a risk "that you cannot quantify," adding that "these risks right now cannot be adequately quantified."

"We need to avoid all COVID-19 infections, both in terms of reducing transmission, but also in reducing the long-term health impacts of this disease," Ryan said.​

 

[Third Edition]

OK, Steve. We disagree on several points. No worries.

 

[MonacoMike]

Being contagious is no different from a Big Mac? Are you crazy? Show me the world where your Big Mac can kill me?

So you realize that death isn't the only impact with Covid, right? That's only the tip of the problem. And, you also know that viruses tend to spread better in cooler weather than warm, right?

The flu outbreak of 1957 had 116,000 deaths in the US, and around 1M globally. We will absolutely surpass those numbers this year. Population in the US is not quite double what it was in '57, so you mean it's equivalent to 300,000 deaths in today's population. It's very likely we will reach that number, too, before the end of the year. We are already at 160k, and there is no sign of things slowing down. As the weather turns cooler, and people spend more time indoors, this is going to take off like a wildfire.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...of-unknown-long-term-effects-from-coronavirus

My bold highlights.
"When we say that the vast majority of people have a mild illness and recover, that is true. But what we cannot say, at the moment, is what are the potential long-term impacts of having had that infection," Mike Ryan, the executive director of WHO's Health Emergencies Program, said at a press conference.

"We hope that everybody who recovers from COVID-19 will make a full, permanent recovery, but there's enough people out there having difficulties with their exercise tolerance, having difficulties with their breathing, and potentially having long-term impacts on their cardiovascular system, that we want to try to avoid all COVID infections possible, not just those COVID infections that lead to death," he continued.

Ryan cited recent research out of Germany that raised concerns about the lasting impact the disease could have on the cardiovascular system in recovered patients. He emphasized that even people who have a mild case of the virus could be at risk of lasting health impacts. The research findings could challenge viewpoints that the virus is similar to a bad case of the flu and that young people generally overcome the disease unscathed.

The first study looked at the hearts of 100 people at the average age of 49 who had recovered from COVID-19 and compared them to similar images in people who were not infected with the virus. They found that 78 patients had structural changes to their hearts an average of over two months after testing positive for the disease, and 60 had signs of inflammation.

When a body reacts to a virus or other health problem, it generates an inflammatory response. If that response lasts a long time, it can do long-term damage that leads to heart disease and accelerate other heart conditions that would develop later in life, Ryan said.

Study author Valentina Puntmann told STAT that the high number of patients with ongoing heart abnormalities means "that the heart is involved in a majority of patients, even if Covid-19 illness does not scream out with the classical heart symptoms, such as anginal chest pain."

The second study looked at the cadavers of 39 people who had died from COVID-19 and found the virus in the hearts of 24 patients. Both studies were published Monday in the peer-reviewed journal JAMA Cardiology.

Ryan urged people to avoid taking a risk "that you cannot quantify," adding that "these risks right now cannot be adequately quantified."

"We need to avoid all COVID-19 infections, both in terms of reducing transmission, but also in reducing the long-term health impacts of this disease," Ryan said.​

So you just stay back in the cave with the women and the scared children while the men form a hunting party that will feed the camp.

Life has been full of risk from a multitude of sources forever. As I have said no less than a half dozen times here, this is here, it’s not going away, we are all most all going to get it, it’s just a matter of time. Puny humans cannot stop this.

However, I am tired of people using the heavy hand of government to stop people from providing for their families and associating freely.

COVID-19 is here it will never go away, it is the new reality. Get used to it.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

We don't have to agree, that's cool. But, what I've shared are facts, not opinions, and IMO, that's an important distinction. Start with facts, then draw a conclusion.

The main point I'd like to make is that (contrary to choosing a big mac) the decisions you make can directly effect those around you. If you knew you would make someone ill, or kill them by breathing on them would you do it? If it were possible or likely, would you risk it? If you'd answer no to these questions, then please wear a mask and give people some space. You don't know what you may be spreading.

 

[Third Edition]

Steve, facts are interesting. So many Covid-19 facts have come and gone. It's tiring. We all know by now how to keep ourselves as safe as possible. Though I'm of the opinion that short of a vaccine we'll all get it sooner or later.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

So you just stay back in the cave with the women and the scared children while the men form a hunting party that will feed the camp.

Life has been full of risk from a multitude of sources forever. ~~~ snip ~~~

COVID-19 is here it will never go away, it is the new reality. Get used to it.

I don't see anyone suggesting we should be scared or live in a hole. I, for one, am feeding my camp. And, I'm doing my best to ensure I'm still here in a month or six months, still feeding my camp.

Yes, we deal with risk every day. But, we MANAGE that risk. We wear a seatbelt. We follow rules of the road. We avoid using the hair dryer in the bathtub. We run the blower for 5 mins before starting the engine. Every day, we manage risk. So, why is it that you have to address this virus issue in a black and white manner? Throw caution to the wind? It's not a pussies versus real-men world. We can all live together better somewhere in the middle, where people have consideration for those around them.

 

[Blueone]

The land with no face masks: Holland's top scientists say there's no solid evidence coverings work and warn they could even damage the fight against Covid-19

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html

 

[MonacoMike]

I don't see anyone suggesting we should be scared or live in a hole. I, for one, am feeding my camp. And, I'm doing my best to ensure I'm still here in a month or six months, still feeding my camp.

Yes, we deal with risk every day. But, we MANAGE that risk. We wear a seatbelt. We follow rules of the road. We avoid using the hair dryer in the bathtub. We run the blower for 5 mins before starting the engine. Every day, we manage risk. So, why is it that you have to address this virus issue in a black and white manner? Throw caution to the wind? It's not a pussies versus real-men world. We can all live together better somewhere in the middle, where people have consideration for those around them.

i’m not the one living by black and white rules, that’s what I’m against. The black and white rules are they heavy hand of government telling everyone they must wear a mask. While I think it’s funny, I fully support the right of those that want to wear a mask when they are driving alone in their car. They have every right to manage the risk as they see fit.

however, do you want to take that choice away from me because I might make you sick. Now the odds of that are a similar to winning a small lottery but no matter, the zealots use the heavy hand of government to force everyone to follow their wishes.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Yes, I do. You don't have the right to kill me. Even worse, you could give it to me, and I could then unknowingly pass it to my parents, spouse or children. You don't have the right to kill or endanger them, either. They aren't "expendable".

The odds of winning the lottery are 1 in a million, or in some cases 1 in hundreds of millions. Without risk management, the likelihood that you will pass the virus to me if you've been exposed is 2 or 3 in 10. I don't see the correlation.

 

[Third Edition]

Steve, even with risk management we're all gonna get it. We do what we can to stay safe, but just like the flu, the cold, and other illnesses, Covid-19 is inescapable. It's magical thinking to assume that it can be avoided, or that someone is going to give it to you. It is everywhere.

 

[alnav]

The land with no face masks: Holland's top scientists say there's no solid evidence coverings work and warn they could even damage the fight against Covid-19

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html

Dutch Officials’ Continued Reluctance To Embrace Masks To Prevent Spread Of Coronavirus
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshua...enting-coronavirus-transmission/#2d5ab8824412
"The Netherlands hasn’t exactly distinguished itself as a leading exemplar of best practices in the fight against coronavirus."

Not a huge difference between them and the US. No national mandate, except for public transport, which doesn't exist here. Localities can mandate masks and the largest cities have done so.

 

[MonacoMike]

Yes, I do. You don't have the right to kill me. Even worse, you could give it to me, and I could then unknowingly pass it to my parents, spouse or children. You don't have the right to kill or endanger them, either. They aren't "expendable".

The odds of winning the lottery are 1 in a million, or in some cases 1 in hundreds of millions. Without risk management, the likelihood that you will pass the virus to me if you've been exposed is 2 or 3 in 10. I don't see the correlation.

Very well stated post. You want to control others that do not want to be controlled because of a virus that cannot be controlled...