Gun Rights

lawndoctor said:
Fortunately, it’s not a democracy; it’s a constitutional republic. Designed to be a hedge against mob rule of the type they are trying to effect here.
Click to expand...
You beat me to the punch lawndoctor. Thanks.
 
Creekwood said:
I got no horse in this race, being Canadian, but god forbid any violence happens at any of these rallies.

On a side note, did the voters of Virginia vote in the state government on the basis of this platform? If so, then is it not the will of the majority of voters in that state? (Second amendment issues aside). Democracy means that the majority decides things. That can be a really divisive problem though in an increasingly polarized two party system like you have.
Click to expand...
If you looked at the Virginia map during the 2016 election, you would see that it was a mostly red (republican) state. But the districts up near DC had the larger populations and were blue.
 
lawndoctor said:
Fortunately, it’s not a democracy; it’s a constitutional republic. Designed to be a hedge against mob rule of the type they are trying to effect here.
Click to expand...

I guess I stepped on a land mine, and have now read about the controversy over the use of the terms. What I mean by democracy was that in a political system where the representatives in government are voted into power on the basis of majority of votes (in a series of stages of processes of votes, I get that).
 
JimG said:
If you looked at the Virginia map during the 2016 election, you would see that it was a mostly red (republican) state. But the districts up near DC had the larger populations and were blue.
Click to expand...
Just like Illinois...
 
As demonstrated yesterday.....the US Constitution stands above Party lines. The crowd had more racial, political and economic diversity than anything I have seen in DC. That would suggest that people (who showed up) cut across the voting spectrum, support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment.

I know a lot of hard core Democrats that own guns who voted Democrat but showed up yesterday to protest. Virginia in particular has a lot of Democrats in Northern Virginia which is the direct result of 8 years of Obama in office. Most people who come to the city to work in the government live in Maryland or Virginia.

The rest of the State is pretty conservative. So it is not correct to assume that the elected leadership represents the will of the people on this issue.
 
Creekwood said:
I guess I stepped on a land mine, and have now read about the controversy over the use of the terms. What I mean by democracy was that in a political system where the representatives in government are voted into power on the basis of majority of votes (in a series of stages of processes of votes, I get that).
Click to expand...
Sorry if I didn’t make my point clear. It’s not a controversy over terminology; it is a fundamental difference in the form of government. The US government is not a democracy because it is not given its power, and does not exercise that power, by the will of the majority. The constitution, in particular the electoral college and the difference in how the numbers of members are selected
in our federal legislature (two per state in the Senate, counterbalanced by population-based in the House) provides a different form of government than a democracy. It ensures that neither a majority of the population nor a majority of the states can “out vote” the constitution, not without a purposefully cumbersome process to amend the constitution. That is what the fight to defend the second amendment is based on.
 
Last edited:
lawndoctor said:
Sorry if I didn’t make my point clear. It’s not a controversy over terminology; it is a fundamental difference in the form of government. The US government is not a democracy because it is not given its power, and does not exercise that power, by the will of the majority. The constitution, in particular the electoral college and the difference in how the numbers of members are selected
in our federal legislature (two per state in the Senate, counterbalanced by population-based in the House) provides a different form of government than a democracy. It ensures that neither a majority of the population nor a majority of the states can “out vote” the constitution, not without a purposefully cumbersome process to amend the constitution. That is what the fight to defend the second amendment is based on.
Click to expand...
Now, if we could just repeal the 17th Amendment, we would never have clowns like Chuck Schumer in the Senate.

Thanks lawndoctor. I've always said that the minority always maintains their Bill of Rights. I heard somewhere - 'what is the difference between a democracy and a republic?' It's a little harsh, but it made sense.

Democracy = 5 men vote and decide they are going to rape a woman
Republic = The woman has a gun
 
OllieC said:
Now, if we could just repeal the 17th Amendment, we would never have clowns like Chuck Schumer in the Senate.

Thanks lawndoctor. I've always said that the minority always maintains their Bill of Rights. I heard somewhere - 'what is the difference between a democracy and a republic?' It's a little harsh, but it made sense.

Democracy = 5 men vote and decide they are going to rape a woman
Republic = The woman has a gun
Click to expand...
Amen about Schumer, and pretty much anyone else who has been in the Congress for more than two terms. I’m not sure repealing the 17th would do the trick. Given the level of corruption in Albany, I suspect the NY legislature would keep Schumer in office in perpetuity just as effectively as the NY electorate. We would need to amend the Constitution to add a term limit to all elected offices. Unfortunately, the fox is guarding the hen house, so that’s not going to happen.
 
lawndoctor said:
Sorry if I didn’t make my point clear. It’s not a controversy over terminology; it is a fundamental difference in the form of government. The US government is not a democracy because it is not given its power, and does not exercise that power, by the will of the majority. The constitution, in particular the electoral college and the difference in how the numbers of members are selected
in our federal legislature (two per state in the Senate, counterbalanced by population-based in the House) provides a different form of government than a democracy. It ensures that neither a majority of the population nor a majority of the states can “out vote” the constitution, not without a purposefully cumbersome process to amend the constitution. That is what the fight to defend the second amendment is based on.
Click to expand...

Yup. Seems I have touched a nerve.

I was using the term democracy in the general sense (citizens vote in representatives in government). I now understand that it is a sensitive topic because the term democracy is being used with an expanded context in the US from its general definition.

democracy
Pronunciation /dəˈmäkrəsē/ /dəˈmɑkrəsi/

NOUN democracies
  • 1A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
    ‘capitalism and democracy are ascendant in the third world’
    1. 1.1 A state governed by a democracy.
      ‘a multiparty democracy’
    2. 1.2 Control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
      ‘the intended extension of industrial democracy’
    3. 1.3 The practice or principles of social equality.
      ‘demands for greater democracy’
Origin
Late 16th century from French démocratie, via late Latin from Greek dēmokratia, from dēmos ‘the people’ + -kratia ‘power, rule’.
 
OllieC said:
Now, if we could just repeal the 17th Amendment, we would never have clowns like Chuck Schumer in the Senate.
Click to expand...

Now, now -- that ain't gonna happen. I am starting to learn how this works:

lawndoctor said:
......how the numbers of members are selected in our federal legislature (two per state in the Senate, counterbalanced by population-based in the House) provides a different form of government than a democracy. It ensures that neither a majority of the population nor a majority of the states can “out vote” the constitution, not without a purposefully cumbersome process to amend the constitution. That is what the fight to defend the second amendment is based on.
Click to expand...

Just yanking your collective chains, and I should drop out of it. This stuff is very serious and its important that you collectively come to the right conclusions for all Americans.
 
lawndoctor said:
We would need to amend the Constitution to add a term limit to all elected offices. Unfortunately, the fox is guarding the hen house, so that’s not going to happen.
Click to expand...

edit: Without the 17th, each state district would be more representative of you for the state, much like the electoral college, vs. just electing senators by the popular vote.

Term Limits too!


Not sure if you remember, but McConnell was asked that in 2016, if he support term limits. He said, 'voters determine term limits.......'
 
Last edited:
6B665E82-CF3B-4910-960C-803C4E115514.jpeg
 
JimG said:
If you looked at the Virginia map during the 2016 election, you would see that it was a mostly red (republican) state. But the districts up near DC had the larger populations and were blue.
Click to expand...
Red, Blue, it doesn't matter, this is why the electoral college is so important; it prevents the population centers from determining elections as a popular vote would do.
 
Last edited:
OllieC said:
edit: Without the 17th, each state district would be more representative of you for the state, much like the electoral college, vs. just electing senators by the popular vote.

Term Limits too!


Not sure if you remember, but McConnell was asked that in 2016, if he support term limits. He said, 'voters determine term limits.......'
Click to expand...
Setting Term Limits is like putting a Band-Aid on a staph infection. Fix the root of the issue (the biased media and our education system for example) and let the better informed voters set the term limits. There are good people serving in elected positions also; why should not the voters determine how long they serve?
 
Last edited:
ttmott said:
Red, Blue, it doesn't matter, this is why the electoral college is so important; it prevents the population centers from determining elections as a popular vote would do.
Click to expand...
In the case of Virginia, the blue part is made up of people that work in DC and they will go out to vote to keep their jobs. Whereas the red parts are not as enthusiastic to get out and vote. With the recent actions of the Governor and his cohorts, I predict that will change in November.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,118
Messages
1,426,555
Members
61,035
Latest member
Lukerney
Back
Top