Harsh environment crimp connectors

Discussion in 'Electrical Stuff' started by Four Suns, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. Uplate

    Uplate New Member

    977
    Oct 13, 2008
    Nashville, TN. Percy Priest Lake
    1998 Sea Ray Sundancer 310
    Westebeke 4KW Generator
    Twin 5.7 Mercruiser Carbuerated.
    Alpha 1 Drives
    Ah, I wondered about corrosion. Looks like I will be crimping then on some of my new electrical projects.

    Mike
     
  2. wingless

    wingless Banned

    649
    Sep 2, 2008
    Thermal is different than thermal transfer.

    Thermal will change from heat or reaction to contact w/ plastics.

    Thermal transfer is there for the duration. It is as solid as the substrate.

    Yes, these all still look like new after many years.

    My setup has five stocks. All three sizes of heat shrink, one size of self-laminating wrap and one size of panel stock, to cover all my uses. Very handy.
     
  3. tobnpr

    tobnpr New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    New Port Richey, Florida
    1988 300 DA
    tw 350's w/ Alphas
    Soldered connections are prohibited under ABYC guidelines. Essentially it makes single strand wire out of multi-strand; only multi-strand wire is permitted on boats due to vibration because single strand wire can "break". I would question the use of solder-filled connectors as well.

    I've always used the wire and heat-shrink conn's (Pacer) from Bestboatwire, but I have had problems with the ring terminal connectors as there's precious little space to crimp and sometimes it fails if not precisely done.
     
  4. Four Suns

    Four Suns Not a pot stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    QSM-11 Diesels
    These are the ABYC guidelines... You have to use ring or captive spade connectors:

    "Terminal connectors shall be the ring or captive spade types.” 11.16.3.4.

    "Twist on connectors, i.e., wire nuts, shall not be used.” 11.16.3.6.

    "Ring and captive spade type terminal connectors shall be the same nominal size as the stud.” 11.16.4.1.12.

    "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.

    "Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.” 11.16.3.8.

    "The shanks of terminals shall be protected against accidental shorting by the use of insulation barriers or sleeves, except for those used in grounding systems” 11.16.3.9.
     
  5. AndersonAcres

    AndersonAcres Member

    725
    Oct 30, 2006
    Iowa
    Wow. What a great set of posts. Thank you all. Makes me wanna buy a boat again. But then, everything does. Especially snow.
     
  6. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    Gary,

    Thanks for the article and pictures - I haven't heard of Boeshield T9 - just picked some up - thanks.

    Wasn't that your toe in the picture?? LOL :)
     
  7. Four Suns

    Four Suns Not a pot stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    QSM-11 Diesels
    OK...

    I got the box-o-stuff from Presentation.

    He knows crimps.

    I need to find out how to buy the stuff he sent as it makes Ancor look like poop.
     
  8. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    Dallas, TX
    Cruisers 3575
    Twin 7.4l
    Post some pics.

    Doug
     
  9. wingless

    wingless Banned

    649
    Sep 2, 2008
    There is a reason why a mil-spec hammer or toilet seat costs $400.

    These sound like exceptional connectors, but as has been stated, comparing mil-spec parts to commercial parts is apples and oranges.

    By all means, please provide manufacturer and MFG part numbers. I'd love to get my hands on some and to get pricing on these parts.

    The pricing and availability may return us to "good enough" parts.
     
  10. wingless

    wingless Banned

    649
    Sep 2, 2008
    Also, it would be a crime to use a $10 crimp tool on a $10 ring tongue connector instead of the $400+ tool that is specifically designed for that part.
     
  11. tobnpr

    tobnpr New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    New Port Richey, Florida
    1988 300 DA
    tw 350's w/ Alphas
    I thought the reason that marine wire is tinned is because solder is resistant to corrosion as compared to the bare copper wire?
     
  12. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
    Keep in mind; I am not trying to sell anyone here anything. Do not PM me to buy because I can not sell them to you. I replied to Gary’s post and am providing information only. I’m not here to spam these boards. Gary even offered to send me some money for what I sent him and I told him not to, that I gave him the items as a friend.

    These products are not retail type products. They are not normally at retail type stores such as home depot or west marine. If you really want to get your hands on these products you can find them at wholesale electrical distributors throughout the country and I’m sure Google will turn up some internet based sellers.

    Trying to be as fair as possible about pricing, I’m going to try to error on the high price side, below are ‘trade’ or ‘manufacturer recommended’ pricing for items that are as close as possible to what was originally discussed here:

    Ring terminal, for 10-12 gauge wire, Nylon insulation, #10 Bolt hole size, non-bulk box of 50 pieces. Terminal part # RC10-10. $117.15 per 100 pieces (2 boxes) or $1.17 each. If you spend some time on the internet you may find them for less then this.

    Crimp tool with ratcheting mechanism for this specific series of terminals would be ERG-2001. This tool will crimp the Red (22-16 AWG gauge copper stranded wire), Blue (18-14) and Yellow (12-10) $433.06/each.

    These are trade pricing, or manufacturer recommended pricing. In the real world, a volume customer like a military ship builder would be buying the bulk equivalent at a greatly reduced price. For example the terminal would be RC-363, 500 in a box and the pricing would be much lower per terminal. On the tooling side, again, in the real world, a volume customer would often qualify for manufacture promotions that are offered from time to time. One of these promotions is running right now. Buy at least $500 of this brand of terminals from a manufacturer authorized distributor and get the ERG-2001 tool for $0. ***Warning – this is going to sound like a sales pitch*** this promotion is as good as it gets and is not offered often. I will not sell the terminals to anyone here but if you cant get the flyer for the free tool I’ll email you the redemption flyer. The flyer would need to be sent in by the end of the year.

    Jim & Wes, I have taken effort to make this a non-sales pitch. If I crossed the line of this forums TOS please delete this post, I will understand and have no hard feelings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  13. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Check the model number on the crimp tool. I think you might have one too many zeros in there.
     
  14. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
    Thank you. I fixed it.
     
  15. wingless

    wingless Banned

    649
    Sep 2, 2008
    The RC10-10X is a Thomas & Betts part.

    There are on-line distributors for those parts.

    Those Sta-Kon T&B parts have an excellent contruction and are ideal in a marine environment.

    Those parts are useful for high-volume users that can justify maintaining large inventories of many different parts.

    My medium-volume usage has me maintain 10-20 of each part, which is still a lot. I can't justify bumping up my stock volumes, but I would otherwise select those parts.
     
  16. mawyatt

    mawyatt New Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Clearwater, Fl
    2008 Sundancer 38DA
    8.1L Mercruisers
    Not to try and divert this topic but to try and clear up some misconceptions about military components. Mil standard parts cost is dictated by many things one of which is the documentation requirements which must be maintained for a number of years after manufacture. The hammer and toilet seat are good examples of a $20 item with $480 of paperwork! In many cases commerical components are equal or superior to Mil standard components but cost much less because of the manufactures are not required to create and maintain the dreaded paper trail. Semiconductors are a good example, the typical Integrated circuit microprocessor in your modern PC is fabricated in a process that is superior to anything our government has, and the process control far exceeds any mil standard requirements. If this was done to mil requirements the quality would actually decrease and the cost would dramatically increase, because in this case the mil standards are not good and comprehensive enough and the paper trail would choke the manufacture. Simply said our military can't design or fabricate anything close to what the commerical semiconductor industry has, they were passed and left behind 20 years ago!

    So the belief that mil standard parts are better is not always true, but it's for sure they will cost more!!!
     
  17. mawyatt

    mawyatt New Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Clearwater, Fl
    2008 Sundancer 38DA
    8.1L Mercruisers
    Same here. I thought the tin provided the corrosion resistance. Also tinned wire is easier to solder because solder won't adhere to copper oxide, tin providing the barrier to corrosion and improved solderability (if that's a word!).
     
  18. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
    lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  19. wingless

    wingless Banned

    649
    Sep 2, 2008
    The marine wire has individual strands of wire that are tinned, so the multi-strand insulated wire maintains flexibility.

    Yes, the tinning improves corrosion resistance.
     

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