honda generator

Discussion in 'Electrical Stuff' started by celicagt33, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    I know that last time I looked there were a lot of references to marine use and not so many now. I think you are probably correct and they are playing it safe around this contentious issue.
     
  2. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    A marine generator(any generator) installed in the bilge could develop a leak adding CO to the confined area it‘s in. It‘s possible that CO could work it‘s way into the cabin. When I searched CO deaths in the past this was an actual scenario that I came across a few times. I can see the regulations on venting, exhaust, are constructive guidance to prevent this type of accident. For a portable on the swim platform I don’t see the need…how much better vented can you get than sitting out in the open air were fuel and exhaust fumes can be dispersed rather than trapped in a confined space until their concentrations reach hazardous and explosive levels. This logic seems to be supported by the fact CFR-183 allows some exceptions for compartments that have enough natural, open air venting, this includes compartments that contain fuel tanks and gas engines. I think the same logic applies to the ignition protected thing. An AC outlet in the engine room environment is not safe but they’re ok in the cockpit above it. Take those little gas fuel bottles for example, there are regs that would apply to their storage, primarily around venting…but if you hang them in a bag off your bow rail you’re good to go…venting problem solved.
    I went to the Westerbeke site and randomly opened an operators manual on one of their marine units. I found where they recommended manually draining this little collection pot under the carb before it fills up and spills over. I don’t know which model it was but what’s up with that. I guess if the fumes are properly vented it must be ok. I’ll try to find that again and post it.
     
  3. Powderfinger

    Powderfinger Member

    53
    Jul 21, 2010
    Lake George, N.Y.
    1994 230 Sundancer
    5.0L Alpha 1

    100% agreed. Another fellow with logic and common sense .:thumbsup:
     
  4. susanandlance

    susanandlance Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    Florida
    2007 Sea Ray 36 Sedan Bridge
    8.1 mercruisers
    Using the honda gen. in the bilge is a BIG MISTAKE!! Just my 2 cts., I use mine on the bow w/no issues.
     
  5. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    So if I agree with you will you anoint me with genius status?

    With that thanks for the replys some interesting comments to ponder.

    Elvis has left the building, and MM went with him. Out, MM
     
  6. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    I saw a safety paper on internal combustion engine exhaust /CO dispersal on boats, I think from a Canadian source, that had determined that exhausts vented at the transom of the boat can become dangerous due to the station wagon effect when the boat is at anchor. With only a bow anchor out, the bow will point into the wind and the wind will move down the sides of the boat forming a dead area at the transom. As result running transom exhaust gases would be trapped in the stagnant pocket and could then be drawn back into the living area. However exhausts vented on the side of the boat introduce the exhaust gas into the moving air stream taking it away from the boat. Obviously this is only a problem when the boat isn't moving, so there is only an issue with engine exhaust when the boat is sitting. But it might be the reason why th recommended exhaust vent location for a fixed genset is on the sides of the boat.

    The extension to this is of course the exhaust from a running internal combustion engine on the swim platform, be it portable generator, or idling dinghy outboard, could pose a safety hazard.

    Henry
     
  7. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
    I can think of 4 reasons. 1) the fill cap vents out the top. boat is rocking, spills fuel, drips down inside the unit and... 2) Again the fuel tank is directly above the electronics, if they catch fire, then only a little plastic separates it from gas 3) The carb dumps fuel out the side of the unit 4) The fuel lines are not clamped inside of the unit and it uses cheap hosing. If they fall off, fuel goes everywhere.

    On the exhaust, you're ok if it is close to the worst defective exhaust you can find on a generator 20 years ago?
     
  8. Powderfinger

    Powderfinger Member

    53
    Jul 21, 2010
    Lake George, N.Y.
    1994 230 Sundancer
    5.0L Alpha 1
    I could give a crap with what you agree with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  9. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Well, hell's bells.

    Sounded like a good question to me. I was about to ask it before Elvis left...
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  10. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    From a safety standpoint what is it that caused you to pick the bow over other locations, the swim platform for example?
     
  11. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    It seems to me there are some clear-cut statements that can be made on the topic, which i think most would agree. Of course, maybe I am optimistic!

    1. Although portable generators are not necessarily certified for "marine use", given they are portable there are no explicit regulations that prohibit the use of one on a boat, so long as it is not permanently installed.
    2. Fellow boaters' opinions on the safety of the use of a portable generator on a boat will be divided and possibly contentious.
    3. A portable generator must never be operated or stored in the bilge.
    4. There is risk of CO poisoning whenever a gasoline engine of any kind is running on a boat, including a portable generator, and lives can and have been lost as a result.
    5. If a portable generator must be used on a boat, extreme care must be taken in the management of CO exposure to those on your and neighboring boats through responsible placement and use of a the generator, and rigorous CO monitoring.

    A statement also needs to be made about the floating neutral on most portable generators, what danger or risk is imposed when a portable generator is connected to the shore power inlet resulting in a floating neutral on the boat, and what steps could or should be taken to mitigate it (if any can).

    Westie, you seemed to have the best technical knowledge of this last item of any poster so far. Can you comment on this in more detail?

    So was I being optimistic? Was I close at least?
     
  12. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Related to this, The CO detector always goes off in my cabin at low speeds if I have the front eisenglass in. Definitely station wagon affect occurs. I am adding a cockpit CO detector this winter!
     
  13. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
  14. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Just out of curiosity, is this a lot different than portable outboards with self-contained fuel tanks? Are all outboards ignition protected, even the old ones? One thing I can tell you for sure is I had an old Viking outboard that I used to have to tinker with a lot, sometimes in the middle of the lake, and I don't recall seeing any hose clamps! Maybe they were left off over the years though...
     
  15. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
    I don't recall reading in my outboard manual about it generating 20 amps at 120v. All my outboards had clamps on the hoses, and also used marine grade hoses. Everything is sealed, marine grade alloys, painted, water cooled etc... Even equipped with zincs.
     
  16. susanandlance

    susanandlance Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    Florida
    2007 Sea Ray 36 Sedan Bridge
    8.1 mercruisers
    I've used it on the transom also, it just seems to do better i.e. fumes and noise on the bow. Just depends if you rafted up w/other people. Also i found that closing the cockpit fully, mainly eisenglass totally will result in more CO2. Now lets discuss how to be a bigger BLOWHARD!!!!:lol:
     
  17. Westie

    Westie Active Member

    Oct 16, 2008
    Calgary
    2001 260 Sundancer towed with the power of an IFORCE V8
    7.4 L Bravo III
    I guess I'll just have to rely on the fact that it has passed all UL and CSA standards in place at the time of manufacture to be safe. I place a much higher value on the UL/CSA standards then I do on your opinion.
     
  18. susanandlance

    susanandlance Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    Florida
    2007 Sea Ray 36 Sedan Bridge
    8.1 mercruisers
    I agree w/you Westie!!! Some people are just sexual intellectuals , they just know anything about everything, i.e., "IKE'S", I know everything!! LMAO
     
  19. Quint4

    Quint4 Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    New Bern, NC
    CY 3375
    7.4 MPI twin
    If you don't know the difference between CO and CO2 you are headed for trouble.
     
  20. susanandlance

    susanandlance Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    Florida
    2007 Sea Ray 36 Sedan Bridge
    8.1 mercruisers
    :smt021
    My bad Quint4, I meant CO, CO2 is whats in the Atmosphere.
     

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