honda generator

Westie said:
I guess I'll just have to rely on the fact that it has passed all UL and CSA standards in place at the time of manufacture to be safe. I place a much higher value on the UL/CSA standards then I do on your opinion.
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You mean the same standards that passed the Kholer generators 20 years ago?
 
I haven't heard of anyone making one of these Honda generators a permanent installation component to their boat, much less running them in their engine compartment or bilge. The issues of concerns raised ie: the cap vent potentially leaking gas, non clamped hoses that "could fall off" etc.......Until this thread, I had thought that people who use these generators on their boats do so similarly to the way I use mine. Here is my application:

I run mostly 12v. I have a 12v Isotherm refrigerator, 12v flat screen with DVD, all lights are 12v and I have a 1000 watt inverter for our laptops and phone chargers. We run off the inverter only during the evenings and at night while in the cabin watching TV, videos, and using our laptops.

In the morning we have our breakfast and of course, coffee. I have my Honda eu2000i double ratchet strapped (not bungee corded) onto the far left side of the swim platform (it's never gotten wet in 5 years). In this position, the exhaust emits out from the side of the boat. I wouldn't run my lawnmower in my living room so by the same logic I wouldn't run ANY internal combustion engine inside my boat.

I start the generator and we use the coffee/cappuccino maker which takes about 15 minutes. While having our breakfast on the open uncovered deck (always a breeze), the generator runs and recharges the batteries. We can barely hear the genny running while eating and talking and in 5 years we've never gotten a whif of exhaust smell. It usually takes about 2 hours for the batteries to fully recharge and then we're ready for another evening of running off the inverter. I see no more CO dangers from this application than I do from my lawnmower while mowing my lawn, and I do occasionally get whiffs of exhaust when I mow my lawn. (I know, CO is odorless but I'm not getting into that). I would never run the generator (or the engine for that matter) while we are in the cabin.

This setup works for me. And many others on the lake who I know use a similar routine. With all due respect, I don't care if the US Coast Guard approves of my application or not. I'm a very capable and competent guy and I can think for myself. Although I'm not an electrical engineer, I understand electricity and I could wire a house. I'm an ASE certified automotive, gasoline engine and diesel engine technician so I am pretty hands-on with all my equipment. I inspect hoses, lines, wires and change fluids and keep all of my equipment clean and meticulously maintained.

Could a fuel line "fall off" the generator and cause a fire or explosion? I guess that's conceivable. But I'd bet the farm it won't happen on mine. But such a thing could conceivably happen to a fuel line on the main engine too, clamped or not, or under the hood of my car. And my motorcycle tire could blowout on the highway and I could crash. Everything we do in life is a calculated risk. I feel confident enough in my own judgement to feel safe with the actions I decide to take because I weigh out "probabilities". Anything is possible including a car crashing through my living room wall right now from some driver losing control of his car out on the road. What we must include with any possible danger factor is include the probability factor as well. And unless you live under a protective glass bubble, we are all perpetually faced with potential dangers every day of our lives.

I adamantly feel that my portable generator is no more dangerous on my boat using it in the application I describe above than the engine under our floorboards, but that's not to say that there aren't dangers to having a CO emitting engine (or factory installed gen-set) running down below in an enclosed space just because the US Coast Guard gives it their stamp of approval. I think that's what a lot of people here feel. Never mind the actual safety factor, if it's not approved by The Coast Guard or Underwriter's Laboratory or whatever agency, then it's not safe.

I take more than adequate precautions with everything on my boat to help ensure our safety while we're enjoying our days anchored in our cove. But I'm also aware that anything could happen, including drowning while swimming or getting hit by lightning during a storm. I thought that all people use portable generators on boats in a responsible manner much the same way I do. And if that's the case then I think these little generators are a wonderful addition to a boat if used by resposnible, knowledgable people who use logic and common sense.

And to those who have been saying that I'm arguing my case in this thread soley because I want to hear someone say "It's ok to use a porta genny on a boat", believe me, I truly don't care if you approve or not. I just want to stand up for myself and others who choose to use these generators responsibly and enjoy the benefits we get from them. There's another governing agency that issues approvals too that many don't seem to be aware of and it's within each of us albeit in varying strengths. Common Sense.
 
Thank you for this post, It's thought out, explained, you state your reasoning and no ones feelings got hurt.
 
Good post, Powder! We always have to weigh our options - the risks associated with them and the outcomes. Thanks for posting.
 
Hey, this turned out OK. No lock, not thrown in the holding tank and no bunny with a pancake on it's head. If the OP would pop in and say thanks it would be great but that's actually covered too because he said "thanks in advance". Mission accomplished...kinda.
 
So now what? We light the campfire, cook some smores, hold hands and sing kumbaya.
A lot of accusations have been made about posters on this thread that far outweigh a feel good ending of a few posters who would claim such. Unless people learn how to debate an issue without personal attacks or assumed conjectures about a poster we have learned little.

Oh yeah the disclaimer phrase "In My Honest Opinion".
 
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1. Pullmyfinger needs to appologize for calling people with boats over 30' a$$es. Sounds like he has some sort of chip on his shoulder getting in his way.

2. Fatassahoy needs to join another forum and not ever come back to CSR.

3. I need to stop throwing gas on a fire and renaming their forum ID's..

Good luck with all that.

Oh yeah... screw all you gas boat guys and your crappy gennies... get diesel.
 
four suns said:
1. Pullmyfinger needs to appologize for calling people with boats over 30' a$$es. Sounds like he has some sort of chip on his shoulder getting in his way.

2. Fatassahoy needs to join another forum and not ever come back to csr.

3. I need to stop throwing gas on a fire and renaming their forum id's..

Good luck with all that.

Oh yeah... Screw all you gas boat guys and your crappy gennies... Get diesel.
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OMG:smt043:smt043:smt043
I'm one of those little gassers, no frige, A/C, crappers, or flat screens. Just a lot of fun on a day off.
 
Four Suns said:
1. Pullmyfinger needs to appologize for calling people with boats over 30' a$$es. Sounds like he has some sort of chip on his shoulder getting in his way.

2. Fatassahoy needs to join another forum and not ever come back to CSR.

3. I need to stop throwing gas on a fire and renaming their forum ID's..

Good luck with all that.

Oh yeah... screw all you gas boat guys and your crappy gennies... get diesel.
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Hey Fore Skin :)smt043),
Stop picking on all of us gassers you elitist diesel ass!!!
Sorry, I still get a chuckle from that name!

sfergson727 said:
I'm personally not going to return to this thread until the Indianapolis Colts win a game...I might not be back for a while.
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Sorry Scottie,
We may not see you for a while but there are good points to that. One is you will probably get Luck next draft and be set at QB for another 15 years. Two, you will probably be another 10 lbs lighter next time you are back!! So all is not lost my friend. Let's Go Rangers!!!
 
Well, if someone could shed more light on the floating neutral issue, i would feel all the bases are covered. It is still an unquantified risk in my mind.

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed (or cares!), but I have been trying to promote friendly, intelligent, and on-point debate on the subject. Obviously there are boaters who will use portable generators on their boats. If they could read a summarized set of conclusions here and do it more safely, then the discussion was worthwhile.
 
Yes, you were noticed. That's why your user name wasn't transformed into a part of the human anatomy. thanks
 
The simple solution to the floating neutral issue is connect it to ground at the generator. Just be absolutle sure that you disconnect it when you plug into shore power.
 
Bajturner,

I posted this a couple of times in the past, but can’t seem to find it. These posts were in threads asking about portables and comparing them to permanent mount marine generators. I just don’t want to argue with folks who don’t seem grasp the total risk in using portables on boats. For me, its about understanding the risk, then making a smart decision, not about arguing ad infinitum on an internet forum. So here are the comments I posted but happened to save. Maybe they will answer your questions: (hope the formatting works)

Post #1: about portable generator risks-

1.Carbon Monoxide (CO) is present with all generators, but on portables, the exhaust is discharged at the generator, within an inch or so of the exhaust port on the cylinder. The exhaust system on a portable generator is usually constructed of non-marine alloys that can rust through after brief exposure to a salt water environment.ﰀ There is no engineered system to remove the exhaust from near occupied spaces. When placed on a swim platform, normal air flow can cause a station wagon effect and suck CO into the cockpit or cabin. While the same problem may exist with marine generators, the exhaust is mixed with cooling water and is discharged well away from occupied space at or near the waterline and is usually cleared by wind or sea breezes.


2. Fuel Systems on Honda's and other portables are vented to the atmosphere, not internally as with marine generator installations. That means explosive gasoline vapor is released at the generator, usually through a vent in the fuel fill cap. There is also the risk of a fuel spill if the generator is upset or you encounter rough seas or a large wake when the generator is close to full.

Their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled.

Portable generators has simple fuel fittings and single ply fuel lines attached with hose clamps, both are substantial risks to fuel leakage if the generator isn’t new and has been around a while. Marine generators have USCG approved double ply braided fuel lines with swaged on end fittings that thread into the generator fuel pump.

3. Ignition Protection – None of the electrical components on portables are ignition protected. Marine generator electrical components are.

4. Shock Hazard Exposure –Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire. Yes, most portables sold today have 3-wire systems. Where the problem lies is that the portable generator is not part of the global ground when you plug in. When you plug into shore power you are also plugging into the ground for the entire local power system. When using a stationary mounted marine generator away from the dock, your boat is its own ground system. Even if the portable has GFI circuitry, they won’t work if there isn’t a continuous ground system. I think real risk here is that while the boat owner may understand grounding, not everyone on the boat….kids, wives, girl friends, helpful (?)guests…..usually don’t.

Additionally, most portable generators now use invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded to the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally should not.





Post #2: Its not about whose right or wrong, but about understanding the risks.

For me this whole discussion is not about who does what, how they try to suffocate themselves or blow themselves up, but it is about our responsibility as knowledgeable boaters to help others, who are not as experienced, learn from what is posted on CSR. Almost anything we do in life has some risk associated with it. Just because my car has 180 on the speedometer doesn't mean I drive that fast. Safe boating is all about fully understanding risk and avoiding all the risky behavior that you can.

When we advocate taking unnecessary risks, what kind of example are we setting for those who are new to the sport or who are non-technical and just want take their family boating?

However, I do get weary of these discussions turning into World War III when some of the more experienced CSR members take the time to answer an innocent question about using portable generators on boats with irrefutable facts. Because some of you have used portable generators and have not yet blown your ass off or asphyxiated your families does not make me wrong, elitist, stupid or corny, any more than it makes you right.

Honestly, I think part of the check and balance on the accuracy of the information contained on CSR is when the pros and cons on subjects like this are discussed. Those of us who feel that portable generators are inappropriate on boats would be negligent if we did not highlight the risks. I am also concerned enough about those risks that I would never agree with their use on a boat because of the potential liability.

And, for the record, I do own and regularly use a Honda EU series generator.......but the last place you will ever see it is on my boat.


Here is some interesting reading on this subject:







USCG warning Re: CO poisoning

http://www.doubleangel.org/documents...thFigures_.pdf


USCG circular 80

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC80.pdf


USCG circular 68

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/bscscan68a.pdf


USCG Alert on CO from generator exhaust

http://www.uscgboating.org/alerts/alertsview.aspx?id=8


Data on CO deaths:

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/portgen.pdf


http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC74.pdf

Shows design and performance issues causing CO problems
 
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Hey FORE SKIN , oh such a great name you have !! I am NOT going anywhere !!! cant you see my middle finger over here ????? lol , oh and I used my gas eu 2000 honda yesterday , with no problems ! strapped to my bow pulpit, cooked my hot pockets in my micro wave and brewed my starbucks coffee !, oh they tasted great knowing i used a genny out in the middle of my fresh water lake , no salt water to rust my exhaust , oh and my genny exhaust is pointed outward hmmmm , didnt smell any fumes and my 3 onboard co detecters did not make a sound !! imagine that ! I must say my nieghbor was anchored next to me with his diesel and i could smell his stinky genny all night long !! diesel turd
 
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