honda generator

[Presentation]

Actually it was part of the old CSR initiation involving a rotary polisher, urinal, toilet bowl of turds, copyrights and the intellectual material of a pot smoking duck. All was the creation of a secret society led by a figure only known as the ‘Head Pot Stirrer’, and only identified by scars of go cart crashes, making chicken soup, and a stubbed toe. It’s rumored they gathered in G-Dock, an exclusive, erect antenna required section of CSR. There were some exceptions, but it’s invitation only membership was primarily of wealthy big diesel boat owners. Gas boater mistercomputerman was allowed because he always had good cigars, FC3 because he was full of ipse dixit, and plebe Turtlesboat’s rep as boy whore gained him easy entrance. It is said that at each meeting Turtle was required to recount his epic exploits with Nancy Pelosi. The societies pledge of secrecy limits the details but a leaked image shows a rather feisty looking Nancy gagging on a rubber ball while restrained by chain painted in a mysterious ternary color code, the meaning of which is only known by failed initiate Wingtard. I hope this answers your question.

Funny Woody!

Green Ball for you.

 

[Presentation]

pres,

judging only from the specs you provided i would have to say you're an "ass", just not an "elite" one!:grin:

lol!

 

[Turtlesboat]

As a point of clarification, I am not condoning nor condemning the use of portable generators on a boat. I don't mean to present an argument that they are safe, rather I am just trying to really understand the topic. I would guess my understanding is somewhere around 60% at this point. Maybe I'm being generous, I'm not sure. My hope is someone that knows more than I do will point out any misunderstanding I have.

There is a lot of "this is how I understand it" and partially-accurate information on the Internet, including in this thread. Grounding schemes on boats, what will cause a situation where electrical shock is possible, how a GFCI breaker works, how a galvanic isolator is employed in practice, what are potential causes for the reverse polarity light to activiate when polarity is not reversed, etc. have all been incorrectly or inconclusively (yet confidently) professed on. Not knowing what you don't know on these topics could be more detrimental than not knowing anything at all because then you are poised to expose yourself to more dangerous situations...

I think it's pretty clear... "no portable generator meets Coast Guard Electrical and Fuel System Standards". How one wants to skirt around this, no one can predict. i just opened mine up and what little knowledge I have of USCG regulations, I can clearly see that it does not meet marine use guidelines.

fuel Hoses are not up to marine grade and not only are they not double clamped with stainless steel clamps, they aren't clamped at all

The wiring is not ignition protected nor has any corrosion protection and they are sitting directly under the fuel tank.

Not only is the carb vented to the atmosphere, the overflow is dumped out the side of the unit.

The exhaust and muffler is aluminum, not even painted or coated, just raw. completely exposed to any and all salt water spray. anyone who owns a boat knows that this won't last a year in a salt water environment.

None of the outlets are marine grade, they don't even have a cover. Non of the switches or plugs or terminals even attempt to keep any elements out.

The engine itself is aluminum, untreated. Go crawl around in your ER and try to find an un painted engine. Even then you have to fight off corrosion. how long do you think this will last?

Ok, lets go to their site and see what Honda has to say...

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models&section=P2GG&category=play

Honda portable generators are the perfect way to enjoy the great outdoors with all the comforts of home.

• Camping
• Concerts
• RVing
• Races
• Tailgating
• Parties
• Outdoor events
• Trade shows and more

Hmmm... I don't see boating anywhere in there. Seems odd that hundreds of thousands of boaters are using the unit and they don't acknowledge it. In fact, I can't find anything about boats anywhere on their site except in their marine division, they sell outboard engines. Odd, they must hate small boaters. They hate them so much that they go out of their way to try and kill them.

 

[MonacoMike]

I have to say I am having trouble seeing any significant difference electrically between a factory genset and a portable.

Portables ARE not CG approved for boats Marine units are, if portables could be approved, don't you think the manufacturers would get them approved to add another market segment? Additionally see Turtles post. END OF STORY.

Exactly. Finally someone who's got the stones to standup and voice his own opinion based not only on fact but also on pure logic and basic common sense. 14+ pages of posts on this thread and as always most are "mindlessly" bashing the use of portable generators on boats saying they're deadly, never minding the fact that tens of thousands of people use them every day on boats and I've yet to have seen any of you post one credible news link that reports where anyone has ever died directly from results stemming from the use of a portable generator on a boat.

It's clear to see that most of the posters on this thread are mere "wet fingers in the wind" who obviously can't think for themselves and feel most secure holding onto the tail of the majority or of those they look up to and want to giggle and make jokes with, regardless of their own senses of logic and common sense.

I've learned a lot from this thread and a lot about many of you. I joined this forum less than 2 years ago thinking that I'd like to be a part of an assembly of boating professionals to share experiences and ideas. The contents of this thread has really disappointed me.

It's clear to me there's a clique here, all of whom giggle like little school girls ridiculing the new kid in the class. You make sarcastic comments and jokes of the people who ask legitimate questions, like the original poster of this thread who hasn't been heard from since. I don't blame the poor guy, I'd have disappeared too and I'd never post again, as he probably won't. I hope you all feel like big men now. If I ever feel the need to ask something about my boat or if there's anything I'd like to learn more about before I make a purchase, trust me, I'll look elsewhere for the enlightenment.

We do not care where you get your advice from. You just want to be told what you are doing is OK, just like your momma did. The original post was a fake to start all this fun and the people promoting actions counter to CG approved practices took the bait and ran. This issue is likely just as contentious on other boating sites. These folks hanging around here like to have a little fun and if you can't take a little tweaking your skin is to thin.

I've been on lots and lots of forums dealing with cars, motorcycles, firearms, military.. ect.. but this is without a doubt the one with the weirdest collection of members... While I won't say that I'm leaving, I seriously doubt that I'll be checking in as often as I have since I arrived here. This place reminds me of the VFW.. (which im a member of but never visit either) it's a collection of windbags that really aren't interested in helping others as much as they are interested in using others lack of knowledge for their own amusement.

This is just like life on this site, and a wealth of information is available if you can navigate people.

You can do as you please and my last post which is all horsing around probably won't help anything but there really are some good points in this thread and alot more in CSR as a whole. A good portion of it comes from some of the characters that posted about generators. This generator subject reminds me of talking politics. I would encourage you to stick around and take advantage of all that's good here at CSR and take the rest with a grain of salt.

Well said, I've saved thousands with what I've learned here.

Never install a portable electric generator below deck. At the time of this writing, no portable generator meets Coast Guard Electrical and Fuel System Standards. With the fuel tank above the generator directly above electrical components that are not ignition-protected, a potentially serious fire hazard exists. Also, exhaust systems are rarely constructed of marine alloys and may rust through after brief exposure to a marine environment. Do not use any flame-producing device in a non-ventilated area. Alcohol heaters and stoves, propane heaters and stoves, catalytic heaters, oil or gasoline lamps, and charcoal stoves and grills consume oxygen. As oxygen levels in an enclosed space fall, fuel is incompletely burned and carbon monoxide is produced. A clue this is happening is that a normal blue flame becomes yellow and smoky.

http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/safety/Carbon2.shtml

Also, as pointed out in one of the hundreds of other gen threads, the coast guard, when documenting deaths, does not differentiate between portable and built in generators. They just tic off generator caused death.

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Run your portable generators on board if you wish, but: stay away from me on the water, don't promote a bad practice to others that may not understand the ramifications, and don't fool yourself to death. MM

 

[Powderfinger]

Mr pullmyfinger started calling people with boats over 30' elite asses and telling us to shut up... I just joined in to the fun.

That's right 4 Suns, and you wouldn't have been able to make as much fun or cause as much controversy had you not twisted my actual words.

Case in point: Where did I ever tell anyone to "shut up"? Answer - I didn't. You made that one up on your own.

As for the "calling people with boats over 30' eltist asses", again you twisted my words to get the most reaction from the others. Here's what the truth is:

In defense of the poor guy who was a first time poster on this forum who decided to ask his first question, he was immediately made fun of by some of you guys, go back and see the posts! I read the posts and it reminded me of being in grade school again where all the cowardly bullies wanted to make fun of the new kid so they all gang up on him and make fun. My exact quote in my post was:

"this poor guy who started this post with a legitimate question is a brand new member and cheerfully decided to ask a fair question and you guys jump on him like an insensitive bunch of elitist asses!"

The key word here is "like". I didn't directly call any of you "elitist asses", I inferred the ones who were rudely making fun of the new-comer's question were behaving as such, big difference!

And your quote above stating "Mr pullmyfinger started calling people with boats over 30' elite asses ". You know I never said that 4 Suns. My actual quote was:

"Is it any coincidence that like 90% of the people who ridicule those who even mention the words "portable generators" are the 30' + or larger boat owners who are all set with their built in gen sets?

By no means did I mean this as a hate comment or was I in any way suggesting that "any one who has a boat over 30' is an elitist ass". I was merely stating what I had found through all my searches of threads on this forum pertaining to portable generators which revealed that practically all the people who got the most heated about the issue and are so much against the use of porta-gennys on boats are those with larger boats who have factory sets. It was a simple factual observation! That's all! Do your own searches and you'll see the same.

But to maximize your "fun" 4 Suns (which you admit was the reason you got involved in this thread), you twisted my words all around for your own enjoyment and to fire up the others. You even twisted my username all around above in this post to further make fun of me, which by the way is typical of a bully. As long as bullies have their cronies laughing at their victims too, they feel secure with themselves.

To recap, I never directly called anyone names or inferred anyone with a 30' + boat is an elitist. My words were twisted so people could have "fun". But just for the hell of it, here is an example of direct name calling I received from a fine seasoned member of the forum.

How do you ground your honda when using it on the boat, douchebag.'

 

[tdschafer]

14+ pages of posts on this thread and as always most are "mindlessly" bashing the use of portable generators on boats saying they're deadly, never minding the fact that tens of thousands of people use them every day on boats and I've yet to have seen any of you post one credible news link that reports where anyone has ever died directly from results stemming from the use of a portable generator on a boat.

I'm not looking to join this fight. The last time I tried to offer any insight on this subject I was attacked by a member who defied logic. To answer your question on the "credible link" this is what I found last time. It happened not too far from my home:

This is the generator they pulled off of a houseboat that three people died from CO poisoning on. Here's the credible article link:


http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/cops-zero-in-on-generator-in-3-houseboat-deaths-1.1828211

As far as all the other fodder, Goose Fraba Man!! Don't sweat the ball busting. It seems to be a rite of passage here. The members are mostly good guys that try to help and like to throw the occaisional jab now & then. Don't let it get to you.

 

[rpasquarello]

Re: honda generator - SOLUTION!

You guys are all missing a very simple workaround to the problem/issue.

An unicycle-powered bamboo generator connected to the batteries would do the trick as proven by the castaways on Gilligan's Island.

In the "Splashdown" episode aired on February 20, 1967 , the professor easily built a large bamboo generator to boost the power of his Morse code transmitter. The generator is powered by 4 castaway pedaled unicycles. I am sure it could be rigged up on a SeaRay and the unicycles powered by the crew as needed.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gilligan's_Island_episodes, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0588095/ for the details.

Speaking as a seasoned FF/medic, this would be safest as the whole CO poisoning issue would no longer be in play.

-Rocco-

:smt024

 

[bajturner]

I think it's pretty clear... "no portable generator meets Coast Guard Electrical and Fuel System Standards".

It's actually not clear. I'm not sure who or what legislation you are quoting, but I have had trouble finding a clear conclusion on the topic, mostly opinions. The USCG doesn't really stipulate or rule whether or not it is a safe practice. From the USCG website:

Boating Safety Circular 68, 1989: "Coast Guard regulations do not prohibit the use of a portable generator on a recreational boat. The Electrical and Fuel System standards cover generators which are permanently installed and apply only to the boat builder; not the eventual owner of the boat."

I am looking to see if this has been superceded by a more recent publication.

Also from the USCG website:

"Fuel Systems - General
...FEDERAL LAW 183.507 - General Each fuel system component on a boat to which this subpart applies must meet the requirements of this subpart unless the component is part of an outboard engine or is part of portable equipment..."

Electrical Systems - General
...FEDERAL LAW 183.405 - General Each electrical component on a boat to which this subpart applies must meet the requirements of this subpart unless the component is part of an outboard engine or part of portable equipment..."

The bold items were part of the original text.

There are a lot of opinions, some based on facts, some on what is considered their common sense (which may or may not be common) and some just based on the desired answer.

I am still no further ahead on the subject.

 

[Turtlesboat]

The USCG regulates the boat builder, they don't regulate a Japanese company making generators designed for tailgate parties. I don't know what jurisdiction they have over what can or cannot be brought onto a boat. But according to their boat builder guidelines, No portable generator meets them.

 

[bajturner]

Portables ARE not CG approved for boats Marine units are, if portables could be approved, don't you think the manufacturers would get them approved to add another market segment? Additionally see Turtles post. END OF STORY

MM, not trying to get your goat here, but you may be drawing conclusions based inaccurate information, and seemingly thorough research which may not be (and I am not sure mine is thorough either). You draw a pretty confident and definite conclusion ("END OF STORY"), but it is not necessarily based on accurate facts.

What I think is lacking here is TRUE knowledge on the subject, which causes a lot of bantering and speculation.

 

[Turtlesboat]

The text I quoted is from the state of Oregon.

Never install a portable electric generator below deck. At the time of this writing, no portable generator meets Coast Guard Electrical and Fuel System Standards. With the fuel tank above the generator directly above electrical components that are not ignition-protected, a potentially serious fire hazard exists. Also, exhaust systems are rarely constructed of marine alloys and may rust through after brief exposure to a marine environment. Do not use any flame-producing device in a non-ventilated area. Alcohol heaters and stoves, propane heaters and stoves, catalytic heaters, oil or gasoline lamps, and charcoal stoves and grills consume oxygen. As oxygen levels in an enclosed space fall, fuel is incompletely burned and carbon monoxide is produced. A clue this is happening is that a normal blue flame becomes yellow and smoky.

http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/safety/Carbon2.shtml

 

[bajturner]

The USCG regulates the boat builder, they don't regulate a Japanese company making generators designed for tailgate parties. I don't know what jurisdiction they have over what can or cannot be brought onto a boat. But according to their boat builder guidelines, No portable generator meets them.

The USCG does not regulate the use of portable generators, period. This means you cannot look to the USCG for direction on this. I know your desired answer on this topic, and remember I am only digging into to the electrical side of things for education more than anything, but the facts aren't there to support the electrical safety concern as of now (at least for me).

 

[bajturner]

Never install a portable electric generator below deck.

Yep, I don't think there is much argument about that. Not what we are talking about though...

 

[MonacoMike]

I think it's pretty clear... "no portable generator meets Coast Guard Electrical and Fuel System Standards". How one wants to skirt around this, no one can predict. i just opened mine up and what little knowledge I have of USCG regulations, I can clearly see that it does not meet marine use guidelines.

fuel Hoses are not up to marine grade and not only are they not double clamped with stainless steel clamps, they aren't clamped at all



The wiring is not ignition protected nor has any corrosion protection and they are sitting directly under the fuel tank.



Not only is the carb vented to the atmosphere, the overflow is dumped out the side of the unit.



The exhaust and muffler is aluminum, not even painted or coated, just raw. completely exposed to any and all salt water spray. anyone who owns a boat knows that this won't last a year in a salt water environment.



None of the outlets are marine grade, they don't even have a cover. Non of the switches or plugs or terminals even attempt to keep any elements out.



The engine itself is aluminum, untreated. Go crawl around in your ER and try to find an un painted engine. Even then you have to fight off corrosion. how long do you think this will last?



Ok, lets go to their site and see what Honda has to say...

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models&section=P2GG&category=play

Honda portable generators are the perfect way to enjoy the great outdoors with all the comforts of home.

• Camping
• Concerts
• RVing
• Races
• Tailgating
• Parties
• Outdoor events
• Trade shows and more

Hmmm... I don't see boating anywhere in there. Seems odd that hundreds of thousands of boaters are using the unit and they don't acknowledge it. In fact, I can't find anything about boats anywhere on their site except in their marine division, they sell outboard engines. Odd, they must hate small boaters. They hate them so much that they go out of their way to try and kill them.

Portables ARE not CG approved for boats Marine units are, if portables could be approved, don't you think the manufacturers would get them approved to add another market segment? MM

The USCG regulates the boat builder, they don't regulate a Japanese company making generators designed for tailgate parties. I don't know what jurisdiction they have over what can or cannot be brought onto a boat. But according to their boat builder guidelines, No portable generator meets them.

MM, not trying to get your goat here, but you may be drawing conclusions based inaccurate information, and seemingly thorough research which may not be (and I am not sure mine is thorough either). You draw a pretty confident and definite conclusion ("END OF STORY"), but it is not necessarily based on accurate facts.

What I think is lacking here is TRUE knowledge on the subject, which causes a lot of bantering and speculation.

The USCG does not regulate the use of portable generators, period. This means you cannot look to the USCG for direction on this. I know your desired answer on this topic, and remember I am only digging into to the electrical side of things for education more than anything, but the facts aren't there to support the electrical safety concern as of now (at least for me).

I think you can look to the CG for "direction" as well as the manufacturers. It is clear that no manufacturer would be allowed to install anywhere on board a portable generator by the CG regs for builders. I choose to hold myself to those standards when working on my vessel for my families safety. Also, has anyone ever seen a CG approved portable generator? The leading manufacturer does not promote marine use. If you are looking for a cut and dried statement in the regs that say "No portable generators" it isn't there that I know of as well. So I stand by my quote "Portables ARE not CG approved for boats". We are not talking about a coffee maker here. MM

 

[Woody]

How they are used and by whom determines whether they must meet USCG regs or not....permanent vs temporary/portable installation. In one case they are clearly prohibited and in the other they are not, http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC80.pdf#generator . Note the reference to on it-not in it. Every item that a boat owner brings to his boat does not need to be USCG approved. It's all boiling down to, due deligence and making your personal choice.

 

[DustinL]

Damn I hate I missed this one!!!!!!

 

[Turtlesboat]

Yep, I just read them too. So it's clear that they are not illegal under certain conditions. in circular 80 they even sound like they encourage it even though in circular 68 they have a much more discouraging tone. This all has to do with fuel venting and exhaust. Doesn't touch on the electrical side of things where the ABYC has a much more strict stance according to how marine Generators must be wired. But it doesn't look like I can access any of their documents online, but can order the guidelines from them.

 

[Powderfinger]

I want to say that I'm very happy to have received a good many private messages from some very insightful fellows. My faith in this forum has been renewed. The PM's all basically assure me that on an overall basis, most of the members here are top notch great fellows and like anywhere else in life, there's always a few chuckleheads who sometimes over shadow the good.

I thank all of you who sent me the PM's. I know there's a lot of knowledgable people here that I can learn from and I also have a lot of knowledge from my 40 + years of boating experience from which I hope to be able to help others too.

Like several have said both here and in the PM's I've received, this subject is very much like politics and religion. There will never be a unified camp. However, I would like to say that the original poster didn't ask "Is having a portable generator on a boat a good idea?" He asked:

"I was wondering if anyone knows if a honda eu3000is generator is enough to power the ac? If so, what else could this generator power while the ac is on? Dont know if this matters but I have a 96 sea ray sundancer 270. thanks for the help in advance! eddie"

So why go off subject and start bombarding him with opinions, insults and jokes that are not really related to what he was actually asking?
Some are saying this was a bugus post made by someone just wanting to start a trouble. Maybe, but if it was, then guess what. His plan worked! I would rather give the benefit of the doubt and assume he was indeed a new member making his first post with a legitimate question. I felt bad for him and stood up in his defense. That's all.

Nonetheless I'm happy that through all of this I was shown through private messages that there truly are some really great guys on here. For that in itself I say thanks guys!

 

[Turtlesboat]

Great, Now put your google hat on and help us figure out what has to be done to make sure no one electrocutes themselves or others.

 

[Presentation]

I find it ironically hilarious that the Google advertisement on the right of this page changed to Honda portable generators.