honest question about boat stereo systems.....

[CliffA]

A measurement of 92 dB or higher is generally considered very good.

thanks Steve for your expert comments......the inexpensive Polk DB651 speakers I have have a sensitivity of 92 dB so I guess that is why they sound very good to me....

cliff

 

[JimG]

I have mostly stock stereo... I added a 10" sub with a 1500 watt mono amp and two piezo to the arch speakers all for less that $200 (not high-end equipment). This made a huge difference to the stock setup and suits me just fine...

 

[CliffA]

I have the stock system that came with my boat which is not great. I was planning on upgrading to a new fusion system over the winter. For Christmas, bought my daughter a Bluetooth speaker from cambridge soundworks. Wow, amazing sound. I am thinking now that rather then go to the expense and trouble of upgrading my built in system, I will just buy a similar bt self powered speaker. Should be perfect for music in the cabin, cockpit, beach and it won't run off the boats batteries unless I am charging it. All for under 200 bucks. Seems like a reasonable alternative.

we us a BT speaker while we are swimming or floating behind the boat in lieu of installing speakers in the transom....we also use it while sitting on the dock away from our boat.....

I bought this BT speaker and have been very pleased with the sound quality and volume level it can produce....it even has decent bass for what it is.....

https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Bla...sr=1-1&keywords=Creative+Sound+Blaster+Roar+2


while this is a nice speaker it is no where near powerful enough to overcome the noise of the engines and transmissions while on a cocktail cruise.....

cliff

 

[Tonka Boater]

I have the stock system that came with my boat which is not great. I was planning on upgrading to a new fusion system over the winter. For Christmas, bought my daughter a Bluetooth speaker from cambridge soundworks. Wow, amazing sound. I am thinking now that rather then go to the expense and trouble of upgrading my built in system, I will just buy a similar bt self powered speaker. Should be perfect for music in the cabin, cockpit, beach and it won't run off the boats batteries unless I am charging it. All for under 200 bucks. Seems like a reasonable alternative.

There are some amazing BT speakers out there these days. And quite a few of them are water resistant. I could see them being pretty slick for on the beach or maybe even on the swim platform while swimming. But I bet you'll find they'll be severely underpowered to use while underway in the cockpit of your boat. Unless you're cruising with an electric trolling motor! ha.

while this is a nice speaker it is no where near powerful enough to overcome the noise of the engines and transmissions while on a cocktail cruise.....

cliff

There are some loud BT speakers out there but keep in mind that most BT speakers are not multi-directional. The speaker needs to be facing you in order to hear it with good results vs. 4 or 6 speakers in the cockpit. I tried using a tried using a Big Jambox on my previous 20' Cobalt in lieu of upgrading the stereo and I was not impressed. It was ok at best while anchored but completely useless underway... even at cocktail speed. I think BT speakers are fine inside the cabin, at the beach or the patio at your home but they're not a serious replacement for the cockpit....IMHO.

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

but let's face it....IMO a boat cockpit is a lousy stage to try and achieve premium sound quality from a stereo sound system....the acoustics are practically non-existent...there are no walls or ceilings to bounce sound waves off of...the speakers are usually not positioned for optimum listening....there is usually a lot of outside noise interfering with the music.....and I assume that truly 'marine grade' components may not be able to produce the same quality sound as standard components....

I agree with this all, except the last statement. 7-10 years ago, maybe, but the marine audio industry has caught up. Just because materials and designs suited for the marine environment are used, no longer means sound quality is compromised. Designers are building speakers with not only the intent of lasting long in a boat, but to sound as good as possible. And like you said, a boat is a challenge. Even harder when you are dealing with existing speaker holes and other structural hurdles.

with all this in mind does it really make a difference if you pay $50 for a pair of good sounding speakers or if you pay $800 for a pair of 'premium' speakers?

Demo a $50 OEM grade speaker right next to a premium speaker and decide for yourself. This can be arranged.

Obviously, there will be some cost difference between a marine built speaker and an automotive speaker. A lot has to do with the size of the market and the size of the company. Just comparing marine speakers, there are difference that can be seen and heard between a price point and an upper level speaker, amp, woofer, etc.

Amplifiers are another area you will see and hear huge differences in quality. Cheap front end controls with inaccurate POTs. Inefficient and noisy power supplies. Skimpy heat sinks and in most cases, grossly overstated output specs.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the sensitivity spec of a marine speaker. What you stated about the boat layout , open environment and competing with engine, wind and water noise, will negate a couple db difference between speakers. Also, louder doesnt mean better SQ.

 

[Steve195]

Demo a $50 OEM grade speaker right next to a premium speaker and decide for yourself. This can be arranged. .

At the same time, don't eliminate a speaker just because of low cost. When we built our new house, I saved a couple of grand by using an OEM speaker. There are some high quality OEM speakers, so if you happen to hear one you like, go for it.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the sensitivity spec of a marine speaker. What you stated about the boat layout , open environment and competing with engine, wind and water noise, will negate a couple db difference between speakers. Also, louder doesnt mean better SQ.

You're right that louder doesn't mean better, but a speaker with higher sensitivity can give louder volume levels without driving the amp as hard and the harder you drive an amp, the more likely the sound quality will diminish. So if you've got limited amp power and don't want to upgrade the amp, upgrading the speakers WILL improve sound quality (and allow for louder volumes).

If you are planning on doing an upgrade in stages, I always recommend upgrading the speakers first. In most cases, better speakers will sound better even if you keep the existing head unit and/or amp. Speakers will probably outlast your amp/head unit too, so spend your money on the speakers first!

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

At the same time, don't eliminate a speaker just because of low cost.

I agree. Instead, take in everything about the speaker, including how it sounds, and see. Most will find that a cheap speakers ranks low anyway, without looking at its price. Cheap because they are cheap, not out of any goodwill by the manufacturer.

You're right that louder doesn't mean better, but a speaker with higher sensitivity can give louder volume levels without driving the amp as hard and the harder you drive an amp, the more likely the sound quality will diminish. So if you've got limited amp power and don't want to upgrade the amp, upgrading the speakers WILL improve sound quality (and allow for louder volumes).

All true, on paper. Nothing wrong with wanting to obtain peak output with a lower volume and amp gain level. Amp runs at a more conservative pace and yes, less chance of distortion from a clipped signal. Looking at the sensitivity of the more popular marine speakers, you see that there is only a 4 dB spread. Takes 3 to make an audible difference in a controlled environment. If it came down to two speakers identical on all other aspects, including a close price, then I would take sensitivity into account. Untill then, its way down on my list. For me, how its built and how its sounds lend the most to a speakers value. Thats where I put most of my stock.

speaker..............dB
kicker km654 90
wet sounds 650 90
jl mx65 89
jl m650 89
rockford pm262 89
polk new db652 92
polk old mm651um 92
fusion fr 90
infinity 612m 92
clarions n/a

 

[velooce]

Interesting thread, I have all old school stuff and everyone compliments on how good it sounds.

Alpine headset in cabin with repeater and remote
Old A/D/S 300 watt amp
Cockpit 6x9" s and A/D/S 7" with 2" tweeters
Cabin 6.5 Diamond series
Blackberry Bluetooth

 

[Boat Guy]

I think upgrading the stereo can be a smart investment....That said, I also think you can go overboard (see what I did there?).... I think good mid-level equipment will get you 95% of what would cost 2-3x would get you and being that a boat is a noisy location, I don't think it's worth it...

I put in an Alpine head unit because I wanted a waterproof wireless remote...So I can put the remote in my pocket and control the unit from anywhere on the boat. I actually bought two wireless remotes. One I leave in the Vberth and the other is in the salon or I'll take it with me around the boat...The unit also has BT so pretty much any source will connect.

I also bought Polk Audio DB651 6.5-Inch Coaxial Speakers and I think they work pretty well for the price...You can buy more expensive speakers, but these work for me. Far better quality than what was OEM. In fact the OEM ones were torn when I replaced them.

Good luck

 

[peterkvs]

Cliff, I have a clarion M502 head unit (which I hate with the passion of a thousand burning suns because of its stupid one knob control) a 700 watt amp and Polk db651 speakers and a 12" sub. I think the system sounds great. It sounds better than anyone else's system that a raft up with in my opinion. Funny thing was I had two friends on the boat who are self proclaimed audiophiles. One has 50k invested in their home systems and the other well over 100K. Both agreed my system sounded great. So I am guessing the atmosphere add something to the equation. The same reason food tastes better when consumed on the back of the boat.

I am planning to upgrade my system to a Fusion head unit and plan to install wifi and low power FM transmitter so all boats rafted together can play the same music simultaneously.

Good luck, Pete

 

[ttmott]

"with all this in mind does it really make a difference if you pay $50 for a pair of good sounding speakers or if you pay $800 for a pair of 'premium' speakers?......same thing goes for spending big $$ for a head unit and subwoofers and amps....."

Cliff
Cost - Generally, cost parallels quality in audio components but popularity plays in cost also. With that said, I did a lot of research and had in-depth discussion with our local audio installers and found that one component of a system does not make quality audio. Here is what I found and what I ended up doing:
Speakers - The acoustical environment and listening preference will establish speaker size and performance however the driving power and frequency tailoring (amplifier(s) or not) will really establish sound quality and speaker choice from the system. A "middle of the range" speaker which is a co-axial design (separate tweeter with the driver) ended up serving my listening preference very well (which ranges from Santana to Diana Karll to Grateful Dead. I ended up with four of the JL Audio 7.7 inch coaxial MX series in the boat's cockpit. These are a middle of the road (cost) speaker and driven with the right power and tuning to their frequency range netted a very smooth and crisp sound stage. I really like these speakers but, again, they demand a proper electrical signal.
Subwoofer - Subwoofers do not seem to be "rocket science" however the boat's allowable acoustical environment is essential. For example, if there is no dedicated box for the speaker to be installed in then the speaker must be rated for "infinite baffle" installations which is common for marine applications. Subwoofers demand power and demand to operate in a specific frequency range so they must be driven from a specific amplifier's output. Subwoofer can range in size from 8 inch to 18 inch with 10 and 12 being the most common and pricing can get pretty crazy. Here again I found that a middle of the road 10 inch fills my desires quite well and establishes a very good presence both with the boat running and not. I ended up with, again, one JL Audio subwoofer MX series 10 inch in the cockpit.
Amplifiers- Any more having an amplified system is not really an option; modern speaker systems sound best when driven to their specified powers. This means the speaker's power range should be the median range of the supplied power. If a speaker can handle up to 80 watts of continuous power RMS then probably an amplifier capable of 120 watts would be best. Again, the subwoofer will be the power sucker so if one amplifier is to drive all of the cockpit speakers and subwoofer then it should be sized for the subwoofer. So, in my case, I again went middle of the road and hosted the entire cockpit with a single five channel amplifier with four channels to the four coaxial speakers and the fifth to the subwoofer. I ended up with a reasonably priced Rockford Fosgate Punch series 1000 watt five channel amplifier. This amplifier provides features to set up the crossover frequencies so the speakers don't get the low frequencies and the subwoofer doesn't get the mid and high frequencies. This is not a marine rated amplifier and it stays in the air conditioned cabin of the boat. This amplifier does, however, demand dedicated battery power and a lot of it.
Head Unit - In the bulk of opinion from the installers modern head units deliver good quality signals; it comes down to the features desired. Remember also that if the head unit is not used to power the speakers then the advertised power is of no concern. So if you want wired remote, Bluetooth, an Aux input, a USB input, equalizer features then those will drive the price. There is a lot available out there but I don't see the benefit for my applications to buy a $700 Fusion. I ended up again with a middle of the road Clarion M606 with a wired remote and wireless remote added.
So to compare with the two previous generations of systems that have been on the 400DA? This system is spectacular in all respects and not really all that expensive in the end. At anchor or dock and low volume the system is smooth clear and crisp and a real joy to listen. At running speeds with elevated volume levels the system comes into it's own and produces powerful and clear audio all throughout the cockpit.
With all of the above said - I needed someone to "tune" the system and set all of the parameters available; this took the audio over the top and I couldn't ask any more from the system. Middle of the road in cost premium sound - it does make a difference....
Tom

 

[CliffA]

thanks everyone for the input.....I appreciate the time you spent replying and the detail.....

based on the replies to this thread and some research i have done on my own here is what I think I am going to do for now....it will be minimum cost but should enhance my system's performance....

- I will not do anything to the system in the cabin. we don't spend a lot of time there except to sleep. when we do play music it is at low volume
- I have already replaced the original 4 Clarion speakers in the cockpit with Polk Audio DB651 6.5" coaxial speakers. this alone has made a significant improvement in the sound quality. The cost of these speakers was around $120 for all 4
- I have purchased what is considered to be a decent quality used amp off of craigslist for $50. I won't mention the brand so not to start a 'discussion' about which brands of amps are best. I did some research and this amp has all the same features and specs of the expensive amps. it is a 4 channel amp that supplies 75W RMS to 4 speakers at 4 ohms. the DB651 speakers are rated at 60W RMS at 4 ohms. this should mean that the amp is slightly oversized which should allow it to run cooler and sound a little better since it will not be working at it's maximum capacity. I will use this 4 channel amp to power the 4 cockpit speakers. It will be located in the cabin.
- I will install a 10" Polk Audio DB1040 subwoofer under the front passenger's seat. This is the same location it would have been installed from the factory if I had the upgraded stereo system. The cost for this sub and the grille is around $65
- the sub is rated at 270W RMS so I will need to purchase an amp to power it that can deliver at least 300W RMS to a single channel. not sure if I will buy used or new right now. The amp will be located under the passenger's seat.
- For now I will continue to use the original Clarion XMD1 head unit and CD changer. I replaced the hard wired remote at the helm a couple years ago. I also have purchased a 'Y' adapter and an extension cable along with a second remote that I plan to install in the rear seating area of the cockpit
- I use a Bluetooth/FM Transmitter to play music through the head unit from my phone. I can stream music from various sources such as Sirius and Spotify and play stored music on my phone. this actually works quite well so I have found for my needs I do not need a head unit with an AUX input or built-in Bluetooth capability. I may upgrade the head unit at some point but for now this works fine for me

so for under $500 hopefully I can enhance the performance of my sound system significantly. again my goal is not to have audiophile level sound quality. I am just looking for enough volume from decent sounding speakers to provide good sounding music both at the dock (or at anchor) and at slow cruising speeds

if anyone has some tips on running the wires to the amps and subwoofer they would be appreciated.

cliff

 

[SloBurn]

If your boat has WiFi...... Echo would work.

Yes, my boat IS a Hot Spot.

 

[Stee6043]

if anyone has some tips on running the wires to the amps and subwoofer they would be appreciated.

cliff

I assume your '01 will be identical to my '99. Wiring was far, far easier than I expected. If you remove the "storage compartment" immediately starboard the helm you will be able to access/pull wires from the starboard storage closet in the cabin, right next to the head unit. Remove the drivers seat from the pedestal to do this.

I mounted my amps and power connections in that closet for ease of access.

To run wires from the batteries I simply removed the forward separator in the starboard storage compartment right below the arch connection. From the bilge you can easily fish wires up above the starboard fuel tank and through this storage area. Then up to the section you removed at the helm. And then to the storage closet.

You can also access the storage area under the helm seat from that removed compartment area. This makes it easy to wire up the sub.

You'll need a tube of sealant to put that storage rig back together. But it's quite easy.

A photo of my closet before I finished it:

 

[CliffA]

I assume your '01 will be identical to my '99. Wiring was far, far easier than I expected. If you remove the "storage compartment" immediately starboard the helm you will be able to access/pull wires from the starboard storage closet in the cabin, right next to the head unit. Remove the drivers seat from the pedestal to do this.

I mounted my amps and power connections in that closet for ease of access.

To run wires from the batteries I simply removed the forward separator in the starboard storage compartment right below the arch connection. From the bilge you can easily fish wires up above the starboard fuel tank and through this storage area. Then up to the section you removed at the helm. And then to the storage closet.

You can also access the storage area under the helm seat from that removed compartment area. This makes it easy to wire up the sub.

You'll need a tube of sealant to put that storage rig back together. But it's quite easy.

A photo of my closet before I finished it:

thanks....that helped a lot.....

cliff

 

[The Bill Collector]

Hey guys, great thread on sound systems for our boats.... I am looking for a little input as my boat is now a clean slate.... Everything was stripped in the burglary. Both stereos, amps, speakers etc. I was thinking about just one stereo running everything inside & outside. Pros... Cons... ? Before I had one at the helm and one in the salon.

 

[Steve195]

Hey guys, great thread on sound systems for our boats.... I am looking for a little input as my boat is now a clean slate.... Everything was stripped in the burglary. Both stereos, amps, speakers etc. I was thinking about just one stereo running everything inside & outside. Pros... Cons... ? Before I had one at the helm and one in the salon.

Several of the marine head units are available with two separate zones. That means with he single head unit you can be playing one source in one part of the boat, and another source in another part of the boat. Multiple zones also lets you adjust the volume independently in each zone

 

[sandydlc]

Hi guys,

I'm really interested to read this thread since my husband and I are planning to upgrade our electronics this year. I've been squirreling away to upgrade our 2 RayMarine e120s and I'm hoping that we can upgrade the stereo without too much additional cost. Our 450 DA is a 2010 and we're planning to do a survey of what we currently have installed sometime over the weekend. My husband has never been happy with the sound quality of the stereo in our cockpit and it also annoys him that we have two separate systems - one in our salon and the other that powers our cockpit. We have added a Blackberry bluetooth module that gives us bluetooth capability for the cockpit stereo but we're most likely interested in upgrading to a Fusion system to integrate both sets of speakers.

Depending on our survey of the audio system we have that will determine which components we need to upgrade now and which can wait until our Raymarine system is upgraded (I keep stressing the importance of good nav over a good stereo but my husband does not agree - sigh).

For those that have the Fusion system - do you love it or is it overhyped at this point? For a larger yacht with a hardtop how important is it to use marine grade speakers?

Thanks!

Sandy

 

[NotHerDecision]

Sandy. Marine grade speakers are a must. Anything not marine grade will deteriorate quickly in the marine environment. The main reason is the speakers and surrounds are made of plastics and rubber without any paper. I have the Rockford PMx-5 system with JL audio speakers and it works perfect. Has built in bluetooth, pandora, 2 zones, and a nice color screen. The only thing the fusion has is nmea so if you want to control the stereo with your new electronics then you will have to stick with fusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mnm99]

I also replaced the 4 Clarion speakers with JL Audio. It made a big difference in sound. I wanted more bass, so I installed (2) 100HZ Filters on the amp feeding the outside speakers and then a 10" JL sub with a 160w amp. I thought just adding the speakers sounded good. I am blown away with the sound now. I would HIGHLY suggest whatever amp you get for the sub make sure it has a separate volume control.