I voted with my wallet........

[LTD.330]

I am/was a huge NFL Fan. I'm in multiple Fantasy leagues, read about the NFL 365 days a year, and this weekend will be the first since my pre-teen years that I won't watch a single minute of NFL coverage. I have no desire to manage any of my fantasy teams, or even commission my work league, nor play in the weekly office pool. I feel like a part of me has died and I'm sad. I don't think I'll ever be as "fanatical" about the NFL ever again. Come to think of it, this is how I felt when I gave up on baseball when my childhood hero, Pete Rose, was banned.

 

[FootballFan]

If you have never watched it before - or if you have and want to see it again

This is the Pledge of Allegiance by Red Skelton. If the link doesn't work, then type Red Skelton Pledge in the search engine window.

And that is all I have to say about that...

 

[OllieC]

And that is my fault for being ambiguous - I was thinking not armed with a gun - think knife.
Do you shoot someone with a knife rushing at you or use less than lethal force if available? (this is provided there is time and distance to do so)

And I'll be very honest, I have zero sympathy for someone who is told 5 times, "drop the weapon" and you choose to ignore a lawful command - ZAP! and the story ends happily right there.

Let me add this. My C&C instructor discussed this at length....especially reasonable force because we are not a 'stand your ground' state. It's called the 21ft rule.

Here are some of the relevant findings that the FSRC applied in reevaluating the 21-Foot Rule:

Once he perceives a signal to do so, the AVERAGE officer requires 1.5 seconds to draw from a snapped Level II holster and fire one unsighted round at center mass. Add 1/4 of a second for firing a second round, and another 1/10 of a second for obtaining a flash sight picture for the average officer.

The fastest officer tested required 1.31 seconds to draw from a Level II holster and get off his first unsighted round.The slowest officer tested required 2.25 seconds.

For the average officer to draw and fire an unsighted round from a snapped Level III holster, which is becoming increasingly popular in LE because of its extra security features, takes 1.7 seconds.

Meanwhile, the AVERAGE suspect with an edged weapon raised in the traditional "ice-pick" position can go from a dead stop to level, unobstructed surface offering good traction in 1.5-1.7 seconds.


The "fastest, most skillful, most powerful" subject FSRC tested "easily" covered that distance in 1.27 seconds. Intense rage, high agitation and/or the influence of stimulants may even shorten that time, Lewinski observes.

Even the slowest subject "lumbered" through this distance in just 2.5 seconds.

Bottom line: Within a 21-foot perimeter, most officers dealing with most edged-weapon suspects are at a decided - perhaps fatal - disadvantage if the suspect launches a sudden charge intent on harming them. "Certainly it is not safe to have your gun in your holster at this distance," Lewinski says, and firing in hopes of stopping an activated attack within this range may well be justified.

 

[NorCal Boater]

And that is my fault for being ambiguous - I was thinking not armed with a gun - think knife.
Do you shoot someone with a knife rushing at you or use less than lethal force if available? (this is provided there is time and distance to do so)

I asked my son, an 18 year veteran with a large county sheriff's department in California, that exact question. The response was that a knife is still a deadly weapon and if the threat is perceived as life threatening they are trained to put the person down. I asked about shooting to just wound or disable. The response was that in that split second of time trying to shoot an arm or a leg, or shoot the knife out of their hand, happens only in the movies. He says if they are going to fire, they keep pulling the trigger until the hammer goes "click." He also told me that a Taser can be unreliable at completely stopping a person. Thick clothing, a probe that glances off a of the person means they are still coming. A 9mm Sig is better insurance that the cop goes home at night.

 

[Westie]

America is and has always been far from perfect. Far from perfect.

She is, however, the most free, most generous, most inclusive, nation in all of recorded history.

- Chris

Is it perfect? No, but it is a far better place to live and raise a family than any other country on our little planet. And a far better place to raise a family and be able to enjoy all of the things those millions of men and women have given their lives to protect.

You guys really need to get out more and learn about the rest of the world.

 

[Boater420]

Kev, I'm going to put my last 2 cents in and I'll let you fly with the final rebuttal.


Yep. I really wish there were no need for cops at all on the planet but that's not real. So I wish the cops we do have were perfect but again, that's not real.



If anyone believed that there was some grievous miscarriage of justice, both your local prosecutor and you state attorney general can bring charges against the officer. And even if charges are brought, the Grand Jury may decide against indicting. Thats the precise moment where everyone who thinks the cop should be sentenced to death, starts screaming that the system is rigged.

But the family will probably walk away with around $100k (split with the lawyers) after the settlement. That seems to be about the tipping point for "should we fight this or not" currently. And when the civil suit is "won", the calls for the cops head will start anew again, because the system is rigged.



Agreed. Two more screw-ups. He should have handled her better and she should not have tried to flee.


Considering that this happened nearly 4 years ago, I'm going to guess that you personally know the two owners of the cars to know their current condition today!
Hopefully the owners insurance rates didn't go up but we all know how that usually ends up.

At a minimum thankfully she did not hurt or kill anyone.



If the Huffington Post wants to roast some cops, they have a group of former cops, experts and professional witnesses on the Rolodex they can dial up that will say exactly what readers of the Huffington Post want to hear.

If FOX wants to clear the same cops they have a group of former cops, experts and professional witnesses on the Rolodex they can dial up that will say exactly what the viewers of Fox want to hear. Trust me on this, I just got done witnessing two years of it. It was to the point of silly. One side would strut out their 'expert' and then the other side would follow suit and this happened multiple times.

Kev, the last word is yours.
Respectfully,
-Mike

It's been a pleasure Mike, there's never a last word needed when people share their thoughts.

 

[NorCal Boater]

Kevin, Mike is right and I will throw in a few last thoughts and then I'm done and its all yours.

First, I was not intending to attack and apologies if you felt that. BTW I had to look up ad hominem. I was merely curious as to if these were your personal feelings regarding the police. I have an older brother that has, his whole life, (73) believed the police can kiss his ass and it is his right, and duty, to give them as much attitude and grief as possible. As a result he has been arrested several times when just a traffic citation was due. Some people just hate cops.

Have you ever heard the expression, "Past behavior dictates future behavior"? The reason cops work so hard to get a person in to custody is that there is a high percentage chance that this person will commit another, more serious crime in the near future. This woman you are using as an example in Florida, based on her record, was not going to stop committing crimes after that arrest. She clearly wanted to get away, and if she had, the chances that she later commits a crime that could cause the loss of a life becomes a higher percentage. How do you think that cop feels at that point that he allowed her to escape because her crime was "not that serious."

What if one of those hit and run parked cars had had an elderly person in it and they had died from a heart attack. She didn't directly cause the death but because the death happen during the commission of a crime she is guilty of manslaughter at least as she indirectly, was responsible for the death.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but the perception here is you have some negative feelings towards the police. If that's the case, you are not alone. I would like to say you should try and put yourself in the shoes of a cop but that is just not realistic. Until you are in the actual situation where your life is in danger by someone else, you can't truly understand the emotions. I have been on ride-alongs with my son where danger was imminent. I stopped going on those rides as I was not armed and had to ask myself, "What am I doing here?" A job in law enforcement is a thankless job. Cops don't get their hand shaken at airports with a thank you for their dedication and service. Nobody wants them around....until they need them. And because of the recent ambushes on cops they are even more alert and less tolerant than ever before.

As I said, this is my last post in this thread and you may have the last word. I think I'll go over to the ClubCobalt Forum where the most controversial thing anyone talks about is whether or not you should install Captain's Call exhaust.

Later Dudes....

 

[Boater420]

As I said, this is my last post in this thread and you may have the last word.

It's all good Shawn, I appreciated the dialogue.

 

[keokie]

Westie, that is an easy, but worthless comment to make. Simply dismissing the comments of others as uninformed, especially when you actually have no clue how much they "get out", or what their worldly knowledge might be is not just a waste of time to anyone looking for truth or wisdom. It is an impediment. It is nothing more than an attempt to silence someone you disagree with through the punishment of an insult.

I have changed my views on some things over the years as a result of research, well defended opinions and teachings of others. Changing my mind by simply insulting me or others who hold similar opinions has never worked.

 

[JimG]

Not only is this thread off the OP's original track, it's not even in the same state!

But ya'll keep going... it's good reading!

 

[northshore]

I am at the Cleveland Indians game right now where the last surviving Congresional Medal of Honor winner from World War II is in attendance.
He has received two huge standing ovations so far.

We are only starting the 4th inning.

 

[B BARKER]

Well I have to admit thursday night was a little tough because Green Bay is my favorite team, I watched them as a child win the first two Super Bowls and watched every one since then, I mean the Packers and the Bears !! but you know what, I didn't watch the first second of it and I didn't pass out or anything (ha ha) I still don't know who won and really don't care anymore. I will find something better to do with my time. The sad part of all of this is people will keep filling up the stands and keep going to watch these spoiled young americans and keep making them rich and they are to dam stupid to even realize it because they are so hooked on sports...They are just as guilty as the players as far as I am concerned if they stand there and keep watching, if all of them walked out for one week that crap would stop immediately. The players want to blame the Police for everything because they are a bunch of Thugs and then disrespect the Flag and the very country that gives them the privilege to make a great living. Well I won't do it and I will spend more time doing something else, when it was all said and done I really didn't have withdrawals or anything I just broke a habit I had for many years and realized I can live without NFL football !!!!! I refuse to back anyone that that sucks up all the privileges of this country and then doesn't respect the very Great Country who gave it to them.They can all go straight to H--- ... I will just spend more time BOATING its more relaxing anyway..!!!

 

[Westie]

Westie, that is an easy, but worthless comment to make. Simply dismissing the comments of others as uninformed, especially when you actually have no clue how much they "get out", or what their worldly knowledge might be is not just a waste of time to anyone looking for truth or wisdom. It is an impediment. It is nothing more than an attempt to silence someone you disagree with through the punishment of an insult.

I have changed my views on some things over the years as a result of research, well defended opinions and teachings of others. Changing my mind by simply insulting me or others who hold similar opinions has never worked.

Well making statements like you did without facts to back them up is nothing but a worthless comment. It maybe your opinion but the facts don't back it up.

 

[Gofirstclass]

You guys really need to get out more and learn about the rest of the world.

Ya know what Westie? You're right. I've never been outside North America but that's mainly because I was too damn busy earning a living, paying bills, etc.

But next June my wife and I are celebrating an anniversary and are going to spend 2 weeks in Europe doing a river cruise and the other touristy things. In the back of my mind is a fear that one of those terrorist b*stards that they have allowed into all of the European countries is going to meet his 72 virgins and he's going to try to take us with him.

BTW, I see you're from Calgary. Been there, done the Stampede. I've boated in BC and driven across CA from the Yukon Territory to Winnipeg and through much of Ontario. Great country y'all got there. Met some damn nice folks, seen some beautiful country and had a great time. Been to Mexico too, but I like CA better.

 

[NorCal Boater]

... I will just spend more time BOATING its more relaxing anyway..!!!

If I owned a 1974 Century Arabian I would never watch a game....I would be in, on and around that boat. Do you have any pictures? (This is clearly a thread hijack....)

 

[boatman37]

I was a pretty avid MLB fan (Pirates) way back too but after the strike around 1993 I lost interest. For somebody to complain that they can't live off of $5M a year (in todays dollars) is just wrong and greedy. Yeah the NFL players are paid pretty well but at least there are salary caps to work around. I haven't watched a complete baseball game since then other than a handfull I have taken my kids to. Never even missed not watching it anymore.

 

[keokie]

So, Westie, name the more generous, more free, or more inclusive nations.

The stampede of people of every imaginable background from all corners of the earth to come to the U.S. is unmatched. The U.S.'s history of liberation of oppressed people (including it's own) is also unmatched. The ability to be in control of your own destiny in America is also unmatched. Those are just a few facts that are self-evident. Nazi Germany was an awful nation. Do you need me to provide facts to back that up, too?

 

[Westie]

So, Westie, name the more generous, more free, or more inclusive nations.

The stampede of people of every imaginable background from all corners of the earth to come to the U.S. is unmatched. The U.S.'s history of liberation of oppressed people (including it's own) is also unmatched. The ability to be in control of your own destiny in America is also unmatched. Those are just a few facts that are self-evident. Nazi Germany was an awful nation. Do you need me to provide facts to back that up, too?

Net official development assistance by country as a percentage of gross national income in 2015[edit]
The OECD also lists Development Assistance Committee members by the amount of ODA they spend as a percentage of their gross national income:[1]

1. 
   Sweden – 1.40%
2. 
   Norway – 1.05%
3. 
   Luxembourg – 0.93%
4. 
   Denmark – 0.85%
5. 
   Netherlands – 0.76%
6. 
   United Kingdom – 0.71%
7. 
   Finland – 0.56%
8. 
   Switzerland – 0.52%
9. 
   Germany – 0.52%
10. 
    Belgium – 0.42%
11. 
    France – 0.37%
12. 
    Ireland – 0.36%
13. 
    Austria – 0.32%
14. 
    Canada – 0.28%
15. 
    New Zealand – 0.27%
16. 
    Australia – 0.27%
17. 
    Iceland – 0.24%
18. 
    Japan – 0.22%
19. 
    Italy – 0.21%
20. 
    United States – 0.17%

 

[Woody]

Net official development assistance by country as a percentage of gross national income in 2015[edit]
The OECD also lists Development Assistance Committee members by the amount of ODA they spend as a percentage of their gross national income:[1]

1. 
   Sweden – 1.40%
2. 
   Norway – 1.05%
3. 
   Luxembourg – 0.93%
4. 
   Denmark – 0.85%
5. 
   Netherlands – 0.76%
6. 
   United Kingdom – 0.71%
7. 
   Finland – 0.56%
8. 
   Switzerland – 0.52%
9. 
   Germany – 0.52%
10. 
    Belgium – 0.42%
11. 
    France – 0.37%
12. 
    Ireland – 0.36%
13. 
    Austria – 0.32%
14. 
    Canada – 0.28%
15. 
    New Zealand – 0.27%
16. 
    Australia – 0.27%
17. 
    Iceland – 0.24%
18. 
    Japan – 0.22%
19. 
    Italy – 0.21%
20. 
    United States – 0.17%

I dunno Westie, pretty unfair to choose that list just to make the country that gives the most(the USA) seem like a cheapskate....poor representation of your own countries efforts too.

 

[northshore]

Net official development assistance by country as a percentage of gross national income in 2015[edit]
The OECD also lists Development Assistance Committee members by the amount of ODA they spend as a percentage of their gross national income:[1]

1. 
   Sweden – 1.40%
2. 
   Norway – 1.05%
3. 
   Luxembourg – 0.93%
4. 
   Denmark – 0.85%
5. 
   Netherlands – 0.76%
6. 
   United Kingdom – 0.71%
7. 
   Finland – 0.56%
8. 
   Switzerland – 0.52%
9. 
   Germany – 0.52%
10. 
    Belgium – 0.42%
11. 
    France – 0.37%
12. 
    Ireland – 0.36%
13. 
    Austria – 0.32%
14. 
    Canada – 0.28%
15. 
    New Zealand – 0.27%
16. 
    Australia – 0.27%
17. 
    Iceland – 0.24%
18. 
    Japan – 0.22%
19. 
    Italy – 0.21%
20. 
    United States – 0.17%

A couple of things I'd like to know. First off for the NATO countries, how much does each contribute to NATO vs the United States?
Second, how much does each of these countries contribute in to their own welfare systems?

My guess is these countries, might have a bit more spending cash lying around then us due to other world wide and domestic obligations the United States has.