I voted with my wallet........

[northshore]

Westie Give this a run

The OECD's Development Assistance Committee members' total budget reached 132 billion dollars in 2015 and was contributed by the following countries:

1. 
   United States – $31.08 billion
2. 
   United Kingdom – $18.70 billion
3. 
   Germany – $17.78 billion
4. 
   Japan – $9.32 billion
5. 
   France – $9.23 billion
6. 
   Sweden – $7.09 billion
7. 
   Netherlands – $5.81 billion
8. 
   Canada – $4.29 billion
9. 
   Norway – $4.28 billion
10. 
    Italy – $3.84 billion
11. 
    Switzerland – $3.54 billion
12. 
    Australia – $3.22 billion
13. 
    Denmark – $2.57 billion
14. 
    South Korea – $1.91 billion
15. 
    Belgium – $1.89 billion
16. 
    Spain – $1.60 billion
17. 
    Finland – $1.29 billion
18. .....

See thats better.

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please."

Love Always,

Samuel Clemons

 

[Westie]

The whole point of my post is to get you guys to take a look at yourselfs as a country to show you are far from perfect. The USA lags behind a lot of other countries in education, healthcare, infant mortality and life expectancy. To say it's the greatest nation right now let alone of all time is quite a stretch. The divide between the haves and have nots is large and keeps growing.
I would say the take a knee protests have been very effective. They have had the effect of getting people to realize there is a lot of room for improvement.
Personally I don't really care about the NFL, I've never watched a full game and never will, its such a boring game anyways. 15 seconds of play followed by colour commentators gabbing about it.

 

[northshore]

Appreciate the input Westie! I seriously doubt that anyone who lives here thinks its perfect as we all know better.
A quick little issue that I like to pass along to get peoples input on as far as the haves the have nots has a lot to do with the mind set that goes on in the inner cites.

There are many in the inner city that for lack of better terminology are 'Bible Thumpers'. They believe and espouse rather vigilantly that you should have as many children as God sees fit to provide you. Whether or not you are capable of supporting them financially or emotionally is of no consequence, have as many as God provides. If on welfare, our government hands out bigger checks for each little bundle of joy you bring in to the world. Many of these kids have no shot at a good life. Making it even tougher, if the mothers were to choose to marry it could possibly put them out of the welfare program depending on the income of the spouse so part of the rational for keeping a complete family unit goes out the window. Finally for many welfare is part of the lineage - pass it down from one generation to the next. Initially the program was meant to get you by in a rough patch. Thats no longer the case. I don't have the answers to straighten all this out, but I donate every April 15th to keep it going!

I'd like to hear anyones thoughts on how to deal with this.

We're not perfect, but there are not many better and if you take in to consideration the United States other responsibilities and expenses both domestic and abroad, I think saying the United States is the best country on the planet is an easily defensible position. There are certainly things wrong in the US and they need to be discussed and addressed - just as there are in every other country on the planet.

 

[Woody]

A couple of things I'd like to know. First off for the NATO countries, how much does each contribute to NATO vs the United States? https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-11
Second, how much does each of these countries contribute in to their own welfare systems? Not quite what your asking but here's how we dish out the aid https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R40213.pdf or https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/which-countries-get-the-most-foreign-aid/

My guess is these countries, might have a bit more spending cash lying around then us due to other world wide and domestic obligations the United States has. I dunno about lying around given that virtually every country is in debt, but ya' can always borrow some more.

 

[tdschafer]

This thread got some real potential, could keep going right through the winter up to next boating season.

I'm stocking up on popcorn!!

 

[Steve S]

I'm stocking up on popcorn!!

I made a batch yesterday.

 

[boatman37]

Worst healthcare? Not sure about that. Sure it has its quirks but how many other countries citizens come here for care when they desperately need it? Some conditions can't wait 6 months for a visit. Obamacare was supposed to mimic what other countries offer. When Obamacare was passed healthcare costs for the working class doubled. The only ones Obamacare works for are those that don't work. I know personally I had better healthcare and it cost less before Obamacare was enacted.

But again, we are off topic here.

 

[keokie]

Westie,

As far as your list of the 20 nations' contributions; Giving USA (a group that has calculated what Americans give annually by way of charity) stated that in the latest year I could find which was 2014, Americans gave more than 350 billion, dwarfing by tenfold what the largest contribution from a government was, which happened to be the U.S.

Further, if not for the blood and money in the military and economic might of the U.S., the other 19 nations you listed for generosity, as well as those with the healthcare, education, and infant mortality rates you cite as better than the U.S., would simply not exist in their current form. The U.S. did not defeat Nazism, Soviet Communism, Japanese Bushido, etc. alone. Not at all. However, without the U.S. specifically, one of those forms of government would almost certainly be ruling the vast majority of what is now Western Civilization.

But more to my point:

You wrote that you were trying to help us see that the U.S. is not perfect. I don't know of a single American that thinks this country is perfect. And, I said specifically the U.S. was far from perfect. I said it more than once right in my original post on this.

And I never made any claims about superiority in infant mortality, life expectancy, etc.

What I said was the U.S. is the most free, most generous, and most inclusive. And, I fully maintain that. Here is what is so important... Because it is those things, you can easily (comparatively) out-pace the averages of those things you cite as important (life expectancy, education, infant mortality, etc.) in this nation or any other.

In America, you can come from humble beginnings and develop a great life on your own. There is no guarantee you will succeed, but your odds are truly outstanding. Not only did I, but almost everyone I grew up with did as well. I would not take the averages of any nation on earth in place of what America has allowed me to provide for myself.

I have no doubt that most of the Americans on this board came from humble beginnings, and I also have no doubt they bury the averages you cite. That fact has always been a uniquely American thing.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Lets try to stay on track, it`s about Respect for the United States and it`s Flag.
It is Un-American to disrespect it.Protest if you must but this is not the time or the place to do the protesting. Just look in the rule book .NFL RULES!! The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
Nothing to do about your right to protest, it has to do with Respecting the Flag nothing more.
In any other country you would be imprisoned or shot by firing squad for dis-respecting that country or it`s flag. Here you are free to protest, riot, burn and loot stores all in the name of justice .Maybe the time has come to start using real lead bullets instead of rubber ones .Maybe having only American Citizens play for any sports teams too unlike the NBA with its non -citizens playing on a American basketball team .
How about bringing back the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, teaching students to avoid drugs and gangs. Immediate execution of drug dealers for starters.
Any one convicted of a Felony can never play on a sports team in the United States. Check the National Felon League,oops I meant the National Football League

 

[trflgrl]

Lets try to stay on track, it`s about Respect for the United States and it`s Flag.
It is Un-American to disrespect it.Protest if you must but this is not the time or the place to do the protesting. Just look in the rule book .NFL RULES!! The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
Nothing to do about your right to protest, it has to do with Respecting the Flag nothing more.
In any other country you would be imprisoned or shot by firing squad for dis-respecting that country or it`s flag. Here you are free to protest, riot, burn and loot stores all in the name of justice .Maybe the time has come to start using real lead bullets instead of rubber ones .Maybe having only American Citizens play for any sports teams too unlike the NBA with its non -citizens playing on a American basketball team .
How about bringing back the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, teaching students to avoid drugs and gangs. Immediate execution of drug dealers for starters.
Any one convicted of a Felony can never play on a sports team in the United States. Check the National Felon League,oops I meant the National Football League

If you'd like to stay on track focusing on how people treat the flag, let's stay on fact of how the NFL addresses it, too....because it seems it doesn't. The "NFL RULES" excerpt above doesn't appear in the 2017 NFL Rulebook. The Rulebook doesn't reference anthem protocols in any way, as its focus is rules of play. See http://operations.nfl.com/media/2725/2017-playing-rules.pdf

The NFL Game Operations Manual is said to reference many other aspects of game production, including how many footballs, towels, etc. are to be provided as well the maximum amount of time to be allotted for playing/performing the anthem. It may describe how players should comport themselves if present on the field during the anthem, but I've been unable to find an official, complete, publicly accessible copy. Highlights on this page don't seem to point in that direction, but do not account for the whole text: http://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/

So continue voting with your wallet or arrange an alternate counter protest of your own, and perhaps the NFL will implement protocol requiring certain behavior during the anthem and defining disciplinary procedures for non-compliance. As many of you have stated, freedom of speech doesn't necessarily guarantee freedom from consequences of exercising that right, whether from one's employer or the court of public opinion; Colin Kaepernick has experienced that first hand. At this point I have my doubts the NFL will take drastic action, but time and viewership ratings, sponsorship dollars, concessions totals, and the rest of the business stats will tell.

 

[Woody]

The NFL didn't think it was a big deal when one of their players put up a picture of a cop getting his throat cut, I doubt the flag issue will get any attention.

 

[ZZ13]

I have felt this had been much ado about nothing. When CK kneeled he was just one person out of 330 million in this country. Why should any one persons legal action be of any interest to anyone else? Even an NFL team is just 45 people out of 330 million. Heck, I've at times sat during the anthem at Neyland Stadium for various reasons (none protests), or been in the bathroom or been at the concession stand. Not one person in the stadium ever pointed it out at all. When it's shown on TV prior to big games such as the Super Bowl I have never stood for it. Sometimes I am up walking about getting food ready. None of my family members or friends ever point out that I am disrespecting the flag.

I have bigger fish to fry than worrying about what a few people harmlessly do during the national anthem.

 

[dwna1a]

What will happen tonight I wonder.

Will these folks stand and show honor to those that have fallen in Vegas or continue to dishonor ALL of those that have fallen for our flag and country?

They had better be thinking on this long and hard

 

[OllieC]

What will happen tonight I wonder.

I don't, because I won't be watching & no longer care about what they think. Plus, why would I want to see some a-hole sitting after what happened yesterday. You know there will be one.

Their true colors shined by choosing to inject politics. I guarantee, if you ask 5 different players on 5 different teams, you'll get different answers as to why they're sitting.

 

[dwna1a]

I don't, because I won't be watching & no longer care about what they think. Plus, why would I want to see some a-hole sitting after what happened yesterday. You know there will be one.

Their true colors shined by choosing to inject politics. I guarantee, if you ask 5 different players on 5 different teams, you'll get different answers as to why they're sitting.

I just wander if they would be stupid enough to continue to cut their own throats. Like you I won't be watching to find out.

 

[Gofirstclass]

Sunday, instead of watching the NFL games, two neighbors and I got together to do a community service project. There's a pathway in front of our home that leads down to the shore of the Columbia. Where the path drops down the bank it's not all that steep, but it has several roots, uneven ground and loose dirt that made walking down to the river almost impossible for people with walking difficulties.

The three of us got together and built a set of steps that will allow just about anyone who is ambulatory to walk down to the river. Here's what it looked like before the steps were installed.

and here is what it looks like now. That's my cat as she gingerly makes her way down the steps for the first time.

We missed an entire day of football but didn't feel like we missed a thing.

 

[trflgrl]

Sunday, instead of watching the NFL games, two neighbors and I got together to do a community service project. There's a pathway in front of our home that leads down to the shore of the Columbia. Where the path drops down the bank it's not all that steep, but it has several roots, uneven ground and loose dirt that made walking down to the river almost impossible for people with walking difficulties.

The three of us got together and built a set of steps that will allow just about anyone who is ambulatory to walk down to the river.

We missed an entire day of football but didn't feel like we missed a thing.

Awesome!!!

 

[MLauman]

I would say the take a knee protests have been very effective. They have had the effect of getting people to realize there is a lot of room for improvement.

Perhaps that is the perspective from your perch as presented by your liberal media, but my real-world experience seems much different. The only thing this insulting mockery has been 'effective' at is pissing off a lot of people and deepening the very divide that some claim it purported to resolve.

 

[northshore]

Mike you do realize your cat was inspecting your work on his/her new steps right?
I've got one of these cat things. I know how they operate.

 

[Woody]

A year ago I run the boat up to Thunderbay, Ontario. The marina/park was open to the public during the day. Lots of people walking along the waterfront.

When we were at the boat we had lots of folks stop to talk when they saw a home port from the USA. Most of them didn't want to talk boats, they wanted to talk politics. They all expressed dissatisfaction with taxes, Canadian politics and their Prime Minister. They all had great interest in Donald Trump, they liked him and hoped he'd win the election.

Most made jokes, hoping they could trade Trudeau for Trump