Lumishore vs Lumitec vs ??? Networked lighting?

[dtfeld]

I've reworked my arch/cockpit lights with cheap LED's and recently tried to get the original Aqualights thru hull underwater light system back up to working order. Two of the thru hull Aqualights were removed and replaced with SeaBlazeX's but they were used to cover up 2 of the removed thru hulls. After all said and done, I just have a mis-mash of lights that need to be updated.

I started to contemplate updating the on deck and underwater lighting with something more robust and modern. One of my requirements is I would like to have the ability to have white light for boarding, red lighting for night running, and while I'm at it might as well have multicolor mood lighting. Of course this needs a controller, and all the new MFD's have the controls build in.

This can be done with TTP lights, but I have several circuits, so getting a coordinated color would be a PITA. The solution is networked light controller such as Lumitec's POCO or Lumishore's Lumi-Link.

Anybody have any installed? Like/dislikes? Feedback???

I looked at this thread on THT. --> https://www.thehulltruth.com/boatin...ec-vs-lumishore-vs-liquid-lumen-vs-abyss.html

I started to lay out a POCO contorller as I like the Lumitec light options (fit in existing holes)

 

[dtfeld]

Lumishore Demo. -->

 

[dtfeld]

Lumishore Version of the same lights and functions

 

[ocgrant]

I have always wondered about this... While it seems cool I can't bring myself to have the MFD's running for hundreds of extra hours just to use them as a light switch. I would rather figure this out using a Maretron monitor and N2K, seems more practical to me to have a couple of "cheaper" monitors in key locations that are always on with the N2K network that using the switching from the MFD's. Just my opinion. I continue to learn more about N2K networking daily and the more I learn the more I like it. It is like having "Crestron" whole house controls on your boat. Do any of these lighting control panels work on N2K?

 

[dtfeld]

I have always wondered about this... While it seems cool I can't bring myself to have the MFD's running for hundreds of extra hours just to use them as a light switch. I would rather figure this out using a Maretron monitor and N2K, seems more practical to me to have a couple of "cheaper" monitors in key locations that are always on with the N2K network that using the switching from the MFD's. Just my opinion. I continue to learn more about N2K networking daily and the more I learn the more I like it. It is like having "Crestron" whole house controls on your boat. Do any of these lighting control panels work on N2K?

The Lumishore has a stand alone 4" controller, but the same thing resides on most MFD's, so I dont see much value in that for my boat. I expect the controller is really just a set up tool to that allows you to turn on lights with a number of preset settings instead of a combination of on/off switch movements. I need to verify if the MFD is required to be running at all times, so good question.

The alternative is to use the existing dash switches to do Timed Toggle Protocol (TTP) where you use a set of on/off commands to set each set of lights. This works great in you have just 1 or 2 colors. My White/Blue SeaBlazeX's have this. Switch on 1st time is blue light, on/off again is white, and one more on/off is fade Blue. It gets more complicated if you want to able to use RBGW for custom color schemes, and hence the "need" for a controller.

Once these lights are set up, you can use the existing switches for on/off. You'll notice in my Lumishore diagram, each zone has 2 switches for local control. The POCO system can be set up to use switches as well.

 

[dtfeld]

This is a more accurate wiring diagram. This allows manual on/off and TTP control in the Poco controller by wiring in a switch. There are several other ways to wire these up to give more manual control. This issue with this is the switches on a large cruiser may not be close/convenient to the controller.

 

[ttmott]

I have always wondered about this... While it seems cool I can't bring myself to have the MFD's running for hundreds of extra hours just to use them as a light switch. I would rather figure this out using a Maretron monitor and N2K, seems more practical to me to have a couple of "cheaper" monitors in key locations that are always on with the N2K network that using the switching from the MFD's. Just my opinion. I continue to learn more about N2K networking daily and the more I learn the more I like it. It is like having "Crestron" whole house controls on your boat. Do any of these lighting control panels work on N2K?

Maretron makes a 12 channel DC multiplexer that is NMEA 2000 controlled through a MFD like their DSM410. The issue is no dimming PCM capability. You would have to put a PCM dimmer on each channel for dimmable lighting. Maretron also has a bypass switching capability so you don't have to use a NMEA 2000 device to operate the lights. So in theory you could use four channels for the RGBW LED system. Another limitation is the LED system would have to be 12VDC.

 

[dtfeld]

Maretron makes a 12 channel DC multiplexer that is NMEA 2000 controlled through a MFD like their DSM410. The issue is no dimming PCM capability. You would have to put a PCM dimmer on each channel for dimmable lighting. Maretron also has a bypass switching capability so you don't have to use a NMEA 2000 device to operate the lights. So in theory you could use four channels for the RGBW LED system. Another limitation is the LED system would have to be 12VDC.

I'm a Maretron Fan, but in this application, I thing an integrated system is going to be easier to deal with as the front end apps are already thought out, on the MFD's and on iOS/Android phones.

Additionally, I'm leaning towards the Lumishore as the design allows for distrubuted control...ie the LUX light controller can be located were the power already is wired for these circuits on an old boat and networked together. The Poco and the Maretron solution require a more centralized approach.

 

[ttmott]

I'm a Maretron Fan, but in this application, I thing an integrated system is going to be easier to deal with as the front end apps are already thought out, on the MFD's and on iOS/Android phones.

Additionally, I'm leaning towards the Lumishore as the design allows for distrubuted control...ie the LUX light controller can be located were the power already is wired for these circuits on an old boat and networked together. The Poco and the Maretron solution require a more centralized approach.

Agree, I was addressing @ocgrant 's post re Maretron which I agree they are not geared toward lighting control.

 

[Skybolt]

I was looking at the Poco unit for a bit, until I saw it was not N2K and only worked with the 86/84xx Garmin line and from what I saw it doesn't support external switches, meaning momentary versions of the existing ones. They do have a phone app, but I still like the manual switch to be available.

I have the Maretron DCR100, but they don't use the 127501/2 PGN, they use the Batch PGN to turn things on/off which doesn't doesn't allow other MFD's to turn it on/off and only track the status. I was told they are going to fix that, but that was over a year ago.

I think Yacht Devices has handled digital switching right. They support lighted momentary switches, N2K driven, full MFD support (Garmin) and also have a web page, but through there YDNR-02. Although I am not sure Raymarine has let the end user setup digital switching with there latest firmware release.

Although I am not sure any if this helps as I think the Poco device is the only avenue for the Axiom MFD.

 

[Skybolt]

... Once these lights are set up, you can use the existing switches for on/off. You'll notice in my Lumishore diagram, each zone has 2 switches for local control. The POCO system can be set up to use switches as well.

Aren't the switches just over ridding the Poco and if they are off then the Poco can not control the lighting?

 

[Skybolt]

Agree, I was addressing @ocgrant 's post re Maretron which I agree they are not geared toward lighting control.

They're trying to be with their 12 channel system that keeps getting pushed back on the release. Now it's supposedly next month. But none of their screens are touch and that makes them limited for lighting control. And hopefully they support other manufacturers MFD's, currently they don't.

 

[dtfeld]

I looked at MFD compatibility, and Raymarine Axiom has an app for what I would consider the big 3, Lumishore, Lumitec and ShadowCaster. So far, Lumitec and Lumishore are up and running with Garmin and Raymarine per their website. I don't think this is vaporware, and I think very recent.

So far the pros/cons look like this.

Lumishore Pros
1. Distributed control/easily retrofit into existing wiring.
2. High end features - syncronization
3. Excellent underwater light options/possible retrofit into existing Aqualights Through hulls.

Lumishore Cons
1. Cost - looks to be the most expensive.
2. Requires its own network
2. Smaller selection of dome/courtesy/accent lighting fixtures.

Lumitec Pros
1. Large selection of dome/courtesy/accent lights
2. Distributed control/easily retrofit into existing wiring using C4 modules
2. Excellent underwater lights
3. Less expensive hardware costs

Lumitec Cons
1. Fewer Underwater light options (thru hull)


I just realized Lumitec has individual zones, so I need to go back and see how that is implemented...I'm thinking I'm going to mock this up on the bench before I try any onboard install.

 

[dtfeld]

Aren't the switches just over ridding the Poco and if they are off then the Poco can not control the lighting?

That is correct. It reverts the lighting back to basic on/off or TTP control.

 

[Skybolt]

... I just realized Lumitec has individual zones, so I need to go back and see how that is implemented...I'm thinking I'm going to mock this up on the bench before I try any onboard install.

I really like Lumitec. It seems they have a quality product. I replaced my arch domes with their Aurora dome lights and could not be happier. I get asked about them all the time, their color blue is more pleasing then others is seems, and the white is real white light not that blue/white like others have. Quality products for sure.

 

[dtfeld]

I really like Lumitec. It seems they have a quality product. I replaced my arch domes with their Aurora dome lights and could not be happier. I get asked about them all the time, their color blue is more pleasing then others is seems, and the white is real white light not that blue/white like others have. Quality products for sure.

I like their product selection and I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 of their Shadow RGBW versions as a trial. These will fit right in the 2" hole left by the old Perko's. The next issue is to find a way to replace the 4 Perko cockpit lights as they each have a 2" hole. the Shadow's are $129 each, I was hoping for something smaller/cheaper even if I have to put a filler plate in.

What I was unable to figure out today is how to use their Poco expansion modules...It would seem that this would allow some distributed control similar to the Lumishore. If thats the case, I'm in for the Poco...

 

[Skybolt]

... What I was unable to figure out today is how to use their Poco expansion modules...It would seem that this would allow some distributed control similar to the Lumishore. If thats the case, I'm in for the Poco...

I thought they just plugged into the Raynet backbone and were configured through the Raynet-poco interface. At least that's what it looks like. The Pico expansion modules operate the 3rd party lighting and brings it all together. Honestly that looks like the way to go for the Axiom.

http://lumiteclighting.com/poco/#pico_anchor

 

[dtfeld]

I see how that works...I'll have to cost it out, but I still think the Lumishore is a little better, but light selection isnt the same.

I think you can have a couple Poco controllers networked?

 

[Skybolt]

... I think you can have a couple Poco controllers networked?

I think your right, at least it sounded that way from their description. You can make "groups" that can be controlled together, at least it sounded that way. Maybe they were speaking about the Pico expansion's. Might have to speak with them first to confirm.

 

[dtfeld]

I think your right, at least it sounded that way from their description. You can make "groups" that can be controlled together, at least it sounded that way. Maybe they were speaking about the Pico expansion's. Might have to speak with them first to confirm.

Yeah I watched the videos but a few things don't add up, based on the marketing. I'll need to see the wiring diagrams to make better sense of it, and get a plan or where to install and what wiring were talking about. Plus the expansion module is almost as expensive as the controller.

The basic schematic I laid out initially is still the plan... I'll call them this week and see what they know.