MFD cuts off or resets each time port engine is starting/started

[jaywoodz]

I have a Raymarine E120 Classic. If I turn on the MFD first, then start the starboard engine, it doesn't reset. It remains on, and working. If I start the port motor, it cuts off, or resets. It's random as to whether it resets or just cuts off completely. I need to be able to start my MFD prior to my engines starting for an NMEA 2000 setup reason. I've checked all 3 batteries, and they all tested fine. Voltage is in the green on the tester. One battery read slightly lower than the other 2, but still considered green, or in good working order. Any ideas on why the port engine is triggering this reset or turn off? Very frustrating.

 

[jason78]

What type of batteries are you using? It could be pulling too many amps from that bank when you start and killing the E120. Also would ask how the E120 is wired. Are you tied in to the ignition somehow or straight to a panel?

 

[jaywoodz]

What type of batteries are you using? It could be pulling too many amps from that bank when you start and killing the E120. Also would ask how the E120 is wired. Are you tied in to the ignition somehow or straight to a panel?

I'm tied to the panel, it's wired to a switch, then to the panel block. I've traced and verified all wires, no frays or spliced connections. Either way, only the port motor ignition is preventing it from staying on. The starboard has 0 issues when starting. Very strange. The batteries, I'm not sure.. I haven't ripped them open to see what brand, but they were replaced about 2 years ago, prior to me buying the boat. They've been strong ever since.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Batteries may be testing fine, but may be on the way out. The amount of electricity in the batteries is finite. When you crank over the engine, the starter motor will pull all of the current it can out of the battery. On a new battery there is plenty left for other stuff. As the batteries age that left over bit reduces. You can see this with car batteries. When the battery is new you can start the car with the headlights on and there is no indication. As the battery ages the headlights wil start to dim when the engine is cranked. In the case of the MFD a voltage drop triggers a shut down.

Henry

 

[jaywoodz]

Batteries may be testing fine, but may be on the way out. The amount of electricity in the batteries is finite. When you crank over the engine, the starter motor will pull all of the current it can out of the battery. On a new battery there is plenty left for other stuff. As the batteries age that left over bit reduces. You can see this with car batteries. When the battery is new you can start the car with the headlights on and there is no indication. As the battery ages the headlights wil start to dim when the engine is cranked. In the case of the MFD a voltage drop triggers a shut down.

Henry

Understood - well how do I figure out which battery needs to be replaced? Honestly, I have no idea which battery is hooked up to my port motor. I would assume that's the one going bad, or having issues. I can't imagine all 3 are going.

 

[jaywoodz]

I would think it's a voltage issue. Before I went with all powerful AGM batteries, mine used to do the same thing. The reason mine did it, was one bank was being used for the house and starting the engine, the other bank had very little load on it aside from starting duties. Thus, when one engine started, no problem. Second engine started, problem.

I cured the issue by using the battery tie switch (emergency start switch) to start the problem side, tying both banks together. Since I upgraded to Optima D-31M's and presently Sears Platnium group 31 AGM's, it has not been an issue.

So, if you have an emergency start switch, engage it before you start...or buy new batteries.

All 3 new batteries? even though they tested fine? I will try the emergency start option. I understand that it pulls from all 3 batteries, correct? I think you and I have had very similar issues. I am considering upgrading my batteries anyways to optimas. Very pricey of course, but I've heard they're great batteries. You suggest Platinum D-31M's? You said Sears too, so I assume you can get them from there.

 

[jaywoodz]

I would think it's a voltage issue. Before I went with all powerful AGM batteries, mine used to do the same thing. The reason mine did it, was one bank was being used for the house and starting the engine, the other bank had very little load on it aside from starting duties. Thus, when one engine started, no problem. Second engine started, problem.

I cured the issue by using the battery tie switch (emergency start switch) to start the problem side, tying both banks together. Since I upgraded to Optima D-31M's and presently Sears Platnium group 31 AGM's, it has not been an issue.

So, if you have an emergency start switch, engage it before you start...or buy new batteries.

I will say, technically, the chart plotter should be powered off prior to engine start to prevent possible damage from spikes.....yada yada yada. (I don't practice this, but I do run my blowers before I start) (sometimes)

These, I assume?

http://www.sears.com/optima-batteri...-SPM7312982902?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4

 

[fwebster]

I have that issue with every boat I run. The electronics buss is on one battery bank or the other, but not both. No matter what you do or how fresh the batteries are (you are even experiencing it on shore power with your converter on now) the load when you engage the engine starter reduces the voltage to below the Raymarine voltage threshold, which is pretty high on MFD equipment.......like 10.8V. Nearly everyone in our marina........all are larger Sea Rays equipped for open water and coastal cruising, many with 2 MFD's, radar, 2 vhf's, SSB, etc.....has a 12VDC auxillary power supply (APS) to avoid the problem you are having.

 

[jaywoodz]

I have that issue with every boat I run. The electronics buss is on one battery bank or the other, but not both. No matter what you do or how fresh the batteries are (you are even experiencing it on shore power with your converter on now) the load when you engage the engine starter reduces the voltage to below the Raymarine voltage threshold, which is pretty high on MFD equipment.......like 10.8V. Nearly everyone in our marina........all are larger Sea Rays equipped for open water and coastal cruising, many with 2 MFD's, radar, 2 vhf's, SSB, etc.....has a 12VDC auxillary power supply (APS) to avoid the problem you are having.

I ensure to turn everything off, sometimes even the lights before I start the port engine. Doesn't seem to help, unless of course I start the Starboard engine. What 12VDC auxillary power supply are you talking about? Can you provide an example?

What exactly do you mean by this?

(you are even experiencing it on shore power with your converter on now)

I am on shore power, and usually the converter is on when I attempt to start the port engine with the MFD already on.

 

[ZZ13]

Your MFD is getting its 12v from the same battery bank as your port engine. When you start the port engine it draws so much juice that it drops the voltage level on 12v bank. It drops it to below the level that will turn on your MFD. As Frank mentioned this is just a fact of life. Same thing happened on my 300DA and on my current boat. So it won't bother you, I suggest you start engine first then turn on MFD. Do any MFD setup stuff while the engines are warming up.

 

[jaywoodz]

Your MFD is getting its 12v from the same battery bank as your port engine. When you start the port engine it draws so much juice that it drops the voltage level on 12v bank. It drops it to below the level that will turn on your MFD. As Frank mentioned this is just a fact of life. Same thing happened on my 300DA and on my current boat. So it won't bother you, I suggest you start engine first then turn on MFD. Do any MFD setup stuff while the engines are warming up.

There's a reason that I need the MFD on first, before the engines. Otherwise, I would just turn them on after the engine is started. How my NMEA2000 is set up, the engines need to be turned on after my MFD. I'm currently working on troubleshooting my NMEA2000 set up, and it seems to be right, but there's two problems. The issue with the MFD resetting I was hoping would be a quick fix and temporarily assist with the issue I'm having. The underlying issue is that my Maretron DSM 150 doesn't read depth when the Raymarine DSM 300 and E120 are cut on after the engines are started. If I start the port engine (and it resets), then the depth is not sent out for whatever reason. When I power on my MFD and DSM 150, then start the starboard engine, I maintain depth. Not the same with the port engine obviously. It seemed to be an issue regardless of my NMEA 2000 issue.

 

[Bt Doctur]

You could wire in 2 diodes to supply power from both batteries to the unit. that way starting either engine first wont matter.
The diode will prevent any voltage drop

 

[Alex F]

Jay,

At this point you've got all the answers as to what causing the issue. So, I'll just mention that the way you have your current routine on getting things fired up is a common way to loose/fry your MFD and/or radar. I've heard number of cases when people had issues with their electronic simply b/c they turn them on and then fire up the mains.

Whatever the issue you have with NMEA2K can open up another can of worms if you keep doing what you're doing now. Just like others have said, you need to fire up the mains first, only then your electronics.

 

[jaywoodz]

Jay,

At this point you've got all the answers as to what causing the issue. So, I'll just mention that the way you have your current routine on getting things fired up is a common way to loose/fry your MFD and/or radar. I've heard number of cases when people had issues with their electronic simply b/c they turn them on and then fire up the mains.

Whatever the issue you have with NMEA2K can open up another can of worms if you keep doing what you're doing now. Just like others have said, you need to fire up the mains first, only then your electronics.

I've always done that in the past, so I will probably continue to do so. Just frustrating that I will be driving without depth. That was my only concern. There's obviously an issue with my NMEA 2000 network, because according to Raymarine and Maretron, everything is working... if I start the MFD first.

 

[fwebster]

Isn't the sequencing of the "talkers/listeners" addressable within the NMEA2000 architecture via the output strings?

 

[jaywoodz]

Isn't the sequencing of the "talkers/listeners" addressable within the NMEA2000 architecture via the output strings?

Unsure. If so, I would have no idea where to change that information.

 

[jaywoodz]

This is my first season with the Sears batteries. I didn't need to replace the Optima's after five seasons, but over the winter I bought them in advance of installing an inverter. The inverter tragically didn't pan out, but I kept the batteries. Two of the Optima's now reside in my whaler, and the other two I donated to my slip neighbor.

The Sear Plat. batteries are pricey, but I was able to call Sears directly and because I was buying 4, with the aide of a discount (I made my offer and they said yes) and a coupon, I was able to get them for about $190 a piece with free shipping to a Sears facility. I would highly recommend this approach for buying the batteries, you never know if they will give you a break until you ask.

As for the Optima's, you just have to keep you eyes open for the occasional sale. I priced the D-31M Blue Top at $209 per battery recently.

And yes, when you use the emergency start switch, it momentarily ties all the batteries together in parallel.

The emergency start did work, however.. I'm still having my original issue. The MFD doesn't completely reset, but the screen dims, and goes black momentarily before coming back to the original screen I was on. After that, my issue still remains and I can't see depth on my DSM 150.

 

[Alex F]

The emergency switch doesn't act like a "magic button". Just think of it like when your car has a dead battery (say you left the lights on) and you getting a jump form a friend's car. When you jump the battery your car doesn't fire up like it just had brand new battery installed. Most of the time you need to wait for at least 10-15min before your car will start cranking.

So, this is not very different when you use emergency switch. You're still using the weak batteries and given them a little extra "push" via the jump. However, the engine is using too much amps and takes most of the juice by leaving very little to your electronics. The only way I saw the MFD not being affected is when the batteries are in very good condition and fully charged. It's achievable when the boat was docked for a week, but not very practical if you're anchored for the weekend (unless of course your genny was on all weekend long).

As for the depth issue, which started this whole discussion, I would suggest starting from scratch and draw a diagram of all the electronic components you have and how they're connected. IMO, this exercise will help you regardless. Even if you can't find the cause, at least when calling a vendor you'll know exactly what wires and between which components to trace, while they're taking you through the troubleshooting steps.

I always ask the following basic questions in cases like this:

1. Was this ever working as normal?
2. If #1 is yes, when was the last time it worked?
3. What was changed? E.g. Anything new added or replaced, rewired, reconfigured, etc.
4. Were there any events (collision, grounding, getting caught in a rough seas and getting pounded, etc.) that could impact the connection?

Once you get a good idea how everything should be connected and configured, check all the connections you can see and reach. If that doesn't help, call the vendor.

Good luck.

 

[jaywoodz]

The emergency switch doesn't act like a "magic button". Just think of it like when your car has a dead battery (say you left the lights on) and you getting a jump form a friend's car. When you jump the battery your car doesn't fire up like it just had brand new battery installed. Most of the time you need to wait for at least 10-15min before your car will start cranking.

So, this is not very different when you use emergency switch. You're still using the weak batteries and given them a little extra "push" via the jump. However, the engine is using too much amps and takes most of the juice by leaving very little to your electronics. The only way I saw the MFD not being affected is when the batteries are in very good condition and fully charged. It's achievable when the boat was docked for a week, but not very practical if you're anchored for the weekend (unless of course your genny was on all weekend long).

As for the depth issue, which started this whole discussion, I would suggest starting from scratch and draw a diagram of all the electronic components you have and how they're connected. IMO, this exercise will help you regardless. Even if you can't find the cause, at least when calling a vendor you'll know exactly what wires and between which components to trace, while they're taking you through the troubleshooting steps.

I always ask the following basic questions in cases like this:

1. Was this ever working as normal?
2. If #1 is yes, when was the last time it worked?
3. What was changed? E.g. Anything new added or replaced, rewired, reconfigured, etc.
4. Were there any events (collision, grounding, getting caught in a rough seas and getting pounded, etc.) that could impact the connection?

Once you get a good idea how everything should be connected and configured, check all the connections you can see and reach. If that doesn't help, call the vendor.

Good luck.

I will take your advice and push forward with what you mentioned. I understand the process behind the emergency start, I wasn't expecting it to act differently. It's clear that the MFD isn't causing the issue since it never really turned off when starting the port motor using the emergency start option. After doing that a few times, I noticed that the DSM reset completely, but not the MFD. So it seems that the DSM may be the ultimate issue. The batteries are in good condition, only about 2 years old, and tested well. I'll probably give Raymarine a call today and discuss the order of events. Hopefully then, I'll get somewhere.

 

[kaz911]

Other people with Raymarine gear have had success with installing Newmar Nav Pac (about $370) or Newmar Start Pac (about $170) - both take over power supply while engine is starting.

The Nav Pac has a battery built in a and does line filtering - where the Start Pac does not filter and I think is only a big load of "capacitors". Sthe Start Pac requires connection to your Ignition line where the Nav Pac does not. The ignition lines can be a bit tricky to rig up on later SmartCraft.